Hearing a Tornado = Tornado?

[Shane Adams]

The NWS doesn't have to put out an LSR for each thing they hear get called in. I think it's borderline silly they sent this out. Maybe they found it entertaining and wanted to share

Wow Jarrod, you're gonna be a busy man this year, posting scoffs after all the "possible" tornado LSRs that will make it across the wire in 2008. Hope you've spent time with your family, because you won't be seeing them much

 

[jeremy wilson]

Oh come on shane! We all know that the minute LSRs come out that its a set in stone fact that a tornado did happen.

I mean its 40 degrees, clear skies, dewpoint of negative 2 here in Thackerville, and I just heard a distinct rumble somewhere in the distance. I'm calling it in baaby!!!!

And I better see a red triangle there in the morning!

 

[rdale]

I understand it's a "preliminary" report.

My questions...

1) Why would you log a tornado based on hearing alone? Why not just LSR it as a wall cloud? Many TV stations now plot LSR's in real time - so that's going to show as a tornado for anyone doing so...
2) How can a spotter tell the difference between a tornado and downburst winds?
3) Should we add "tornado sounds" to the training regimen?

The spotter report came in after the warning had already been canceled, so it did nothing.

 

[Lanny Dean]

"PRELIMINARY LOCAL STORM REPORTS""
Once again, these reports are PRELIMINARY. With that in mind, I can recall an incident that happened back in late 2002 in the Springfield MO CWA (Evan's old CWA)...we had a tornado warned storm at night. At the time the cell was not producing a lot of lightning so visually things were very hard to make out... sitting about 4 miles south of the town of Chesapeake we "heard a rush of wind and then got one good look at a large wall cloud but could not see condensation to the ground. I immediately reported this to the NWSFO via ham radio as a possible tornado because of the wall cloud and the wind noise and
the tornado warning was extended for that county due to the report.
Consequently, the storm did produce a large F2 killer tornado just minutes later.
Just a note: I believe the LSR you are refering to was from last night, which if it was, puts that report in a different light (literally), for reporting in the dark, I will always air on the side of caution and for many reasons, most of which are and should be quite obvious.
I don't make the warnings, I just give the reports. It is the responsibilty of the local NWS office to "weed out" said reports with the data they have and are looking at. But I would be willing to bet that if a severe storm was holding a TVS through at least a few scans, or was tornado warned (doppler indicated) ANY NWS office around the country would glady take that "wind noise" and wall cloud report most particularly during a nighttime event. Keeping in mind however. those reports are
PRELIMINARY.

 

[Shane Young]

Guess since this concerns the area I live in, I'll weigh in (unfortunately I couldn't chase yesterday).
The report was after midnight, so it was most definitely dark.
And how many are from actually observed tornadoes anytime??? Seems like most reports are typically due to damage (including some pretty tame stuff like a couple trees snapped).

In my experience, Melbourne hasn't been perfect, but there are a lot worse NWS offices out there. I have no specific qualms with this report.

 

[Chris Nuttall]

It's funny this thread comes up. A couple of years ago when I was working in TV in Tulsa, I was passed a report from one of our neighboring markets. It was night, so they couldn't really see anything. But, the report I got said something like, "A viewer near XXX called in and reported a funnel cloud. She said that she could hear it, but couldn't see it."

 

[JIM SELLARS]

I think Rob just does this to his reduce his winter boredom....Bring back the "TORNADO EMERGENCY" thread it was more fun!!!

 

[Mikel Shively]

Well, Regardless of someone else's opinions, If I recieved the report of that, I'm going to relay it exactly how I recieved it. If NWS does not want to include it in the LSR's then that's fine, but, as long as I have relayed it, then the liabilty shifts off of me and the department.

 

[rdale]

I think Rob just does this to his reduce his winter boredom....

This has been the most active winter I've experienced in a LONG time... I'm just curious why we can report a tornado based on sound.

And regarding liability - check with your office MIC... You don't have to put everything you get into a LSR. There is no "liability" in filtering things out, we do it all the time.

 

[JIM SELLARS]

This has been the most active winter I've experienced in a LONG time... I'm just curious why we can report a tornado based on sound.

And regarding liability - check with your office MIC... You don't have to put everything you get into a LSR. There is no "liability" in filtering things out, we do it all the time.

Did you ever think it would be so cold and miserable?....You'd think you lived in Michigan or something...

I agree that the anomalous report should have been reviewed before going onto the preliminary LSR....Was it referenced as a 'trained spotter"? or a member of the general public?....Tornadoes have been described by sound since the beginning of time...The last one that I heard up "close and personal" sounded like some one was running a SHOP-VAC in the next room...I've also heard every sound from high pitched squeals on up to the infamous "It sounded like a Freight train!"...I really don't see the big deal about the report in the preliminary LSR as it should be corrected at the SPC end...

 

[rdale]

Did you ever think it would be so cold and miserable?

What's strange is that we're above normal for temps... It's the WAY above normal for snow that makes people think this winter sucks. I love the action.

Was it referenced as a 'trained spotter"?

Exactly. And no damage has been reported with that storm.

I really don't see the big deal about the report in the preliminary LSR as it should be corrected at the SPC end...

I really didn't think my post here implied it was "a big deal." I just wondered why people assume loud noise = tornado, and why the NWS would report it as a tornado. When we plot the LSR's to show on air, it shows a tornado when the LSR says tornado. That can be confusing.

The NWS office in question is in a little hee-who over this event, as they knew their weather radios were offline but didn't notify emergency management as the tornadoes were moving through.

 

[Mike Kovalchick]

I am starting to think that I might a need a hearing aid as I've never heard a tornado, a hail roar, or a meso despite being in very close.

For instance, the pic below was a wedge F-2 tornado that had just formed in the flood plain of the Mississippi. It probably got twice as close to me as you see it in the picture. I could actually see it tearing up a forest and remember thinking how very quiet it was-just simply could not hear it. Just how close do you have to get? Too close?

 

[cstrunk]

I wouldn't think you would actually hear the tornado itself unless you were within 1/2 - 3/4 of a mile or closer. I think what they heard was probably the storm itself. Hail core? RFD?

A few years back when I was a young teenager I remember watching a small storm that popped up in the summer about 8-10 miles north of where I lived. I went outside and noticed that I could hear the noise of what seemed like the jet airplane flying very high overhead. However the noise really never went away. Eventually the storm drifted south over our house and dropped dime size hail at my location. Was it possible that I heard the hail core of this small storm that far away when the hail was probably less than quarter size at it's largest? I have no idea, but that's sure what it seemed like to me.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

This funnel was right over my head and I didn't hear anything besides wind.



This tornado was about 3/4 of a mile away and I didn't hear it.




It is tough to tell, but that is a big wedge tornado about a mile away (I got within about a half mile of it). Didn't hear it.


This was an F3 near Parsons, Kansas. I was exactly a half mile away and the tornado was literally hitting a house at the time of this video grab. Didn't hear it.


Half mile, didn't hear it.


I was within a half mile of this wedge right here and didn't hear it.


This is the same wedge from the picture above, but in this picture it was crossing the road less than a quarter mile in front of me. You can just see the left side of the wedge. I was getting pelted with wind and rain in the outer part of the circulation (that's why I'm parked sideways across the road, to face into the wind). I was practically in the tornado, but I didn't hear it.




The two pictures above are of the same tornado. In the first one it was about a quarter mile away and was ripping some trees apart. I didn't hear anything there. In the second picture of the tornado it was about a half mile away in the middle of a field and I could definitely hear it. It was extremely loud. There was no mistaking the sound it makes.

I would post a picture of the Hallam tornado that I heard, but it is a big wall of crap (since it was 2.5 miles wide) so you can't really see much. I could definitely hear that one too though. It made a similiar sound, but not quite exactly the same as the other tornado I heard. The Hallam tornado was an F4 and I was about a mile away from it. I was also about a mile away from another F4 near Harper, Kansas. Didn't hear that one though.

I would post more, but I think I've made my point, which is that I don't think all tornadoes make that tornado sound. Maybe they all do if you are literally right on top of them, but they don't all do it even when you are well within a quarter mile of a strong tornado. I have no idea why, but that's just the way it is IMO. When you do hear a tornado I can promise you you'll know it. If you just "think" you might have heard one, then you didn't IMO. There will be no doubt left in your mind when it actually happens.

 

[Heidi Farrar]

I have heard The Roar only two times in my life. The first was 9/22/06; it was very loud (I likened it to a low-flying stealth bomber) and was audible for several miles before the rotating wall cloud passed right over-top of my house. It produced a tornado 4 miles later. This storm was a truly discrete supercell, well ahead of the trailing squall line, with clear sky all around. It was also a monster-hailer; baseball-sized hail fell in our yard.

... The second time I heard The Roar was last Tuesday (2/5). It was a lower rumble and not as loud compared to 9/22/06, but I was 2 miles from it at that time, and it was also producing a tornado at the time I was hearing it. This storm was also not the monster hailer that 9/22/06 was, and there was a lot more going on in terms of competing cloud-cover with this most recent storm, so I assume that this could have altered the audiblilty.

My conclusion based on my experience? I'd say that I have never been close to a tornado or insipient tornado without hearing it, but that isn't true. Earlier in the day on 9/22/06 a fairly weak tornado coursed across open fields 1/2 mile north of my property line. I did not hear it, but I was inside at the time, and was, like a fool, looking out all the windows in my house trying to spot any funnels that might have been dropping from a wall cloud to the south of my house. This HP storm produced severe-criteria hail at my location... I'd say that I would have heard The Roar if I had been outside or in a better position, but I don't know that. ... I do think that some people cannot hear lower-level frequencies as well, and that might limit their ability to hear it. On "round 2" of 9/22/06, several neighbors had gathered at the same shelter before the wall cloud passed overhead. When it was over, we learned that a few of the folks who got there just as the storm was on us never did hear The Roar. The ones who did not hear it were both men who've had considerable exposure to heavy machinery.