Hearing a Tornado = Tornado?

[rdale]

One of the tornado reports logged in yesterday from a LSR, says:

"STORM SPOTTER OBSERVED A WALL CLOUD AND HEARD A POSSIBLE TORNADO JUST EAST OF THE ..."

1) How do you differentiate the sound of a tornado from the sound of a meso aloft and/or downburst winds?

2) Why would the NWS report that as a tornado?

 

[Jeff Miller]

I don't believe the audio perception of a roar is any sort of conclusive proof of a tornado. As we all know, any strong wind can produce an audible roar not unlike tornado winds. The RFD can certainly produce a very audible roar as it approaches, as can any straightline winds that are at or above strong to severe levels. Hail can produce a roar as well. And as Rob pointed out, the meso aloft can occasionally be heard under the proper conditions and if it is strong enough.

With that said, audio perception of a roar is inconclusive evidence to indicate a "possible tornado" and the only proofs of a "possible tornado" are in visual recognition of key features and/or possible damage caused by the vortex. I have never heard of the roar of wind without any other features ever even being a consideration for a tornado report, nor should it be.

 

[Jim Saueressig]

I have heard the roar of a storm from over 45 to 50 miles away once. I had been hearing it for probably 10 minutes coming from the West before I could actually see the cell as it was so hot and hazy and mid afternoonish.

I actually called our local radio station at the time as they had the counties radar unit to find out how far away this small single cell was. When he told me how far it was we could neither one of us believe that this cell was what I was hearing. He went outside and called me back after a bit and sure enough he was soon able to hear it as well.

Turns out when it arrived I found out why it was roaring. Though it was very very low precipitation rain wise it was dropping hail 3-5 inch hail that was fairly flat yet rounded and wide. It was also as strange as this may sound not doing a lot of damage because it was hitting at slow speed. I am guessing very high volume updraft caused the large hail with soft landings and such a loud roar?? It was a very strange cell.

Anytime I have heard a real constant roar like that though from a storm without a visible tornado anywhere or from any distance it has been heavy hail from within it causing it. I myself would never base a report on sound alone from a storm. That would certainly be an odd report.

 

[Kevin Askew]

Sorry a tornado is a visual confirmation in my book. I would never report based on audio alone

 

[Shane Adams]

Lots of LSR text is of "questionable" nature. If I'm in a situation where I know I've got a rotating wall cloud and the storm is tornado warned and then I hear a roaring wind, I'm gonna assume tornado just to be cautious (and get the hell out). I don't think anyone here truly faults a spotter for that action, do they? This seems more like another stab at the NWS.

I just don't over-think this stuff anymore. Either I was there and saw the tornado, or I wasn't, in which case I don't care enough to split hairs about LSR text.

 

[Evan Bookbinder]

Couldn't agree more Shane. I'm not sure what the big deal is either, noting that all LSRs are titled "PRELIMINARY LOCAL STORM REPORT" <-- preliminary being the operative word. Only the StormData publication contains final tallies of tornadoes. I'm not sure how this differs from "possible tornado" sightings that occurred in obscured settings, at night, or otherwise that later may or may not be true -- or a different phenomenon altogether.

Whether the 'sound' was a tornado or not, if that storm report got someone in the path of that supercell to take shelter then I say props.

One of the posters above replied in the context that this was reported as a tornado by the spotter. Unless I missed something, he reported a wall cloud and heard something that could possibly be associated with a tornado. Whatever that may be, these are definitely quite different. The spotter definitely should have and did report the observed wall cloud.

Evan

 

[Mikey Gribble]

I really don't think many spotters or even chasers have truly "heard a tornado". I've seen my fair share of tornadoes, but I've only actually heard them twice. You have to be damn close to really hear the sound they make. The first one I heard was the Hallam tornado and the second one was on May 29, 2004 in Harper county. IMO it sounds exactly like a huge flag flapping in the wind as fast as it possibly can (that rippling sound). It was almsot like continous thunder because you could feel the bass along with the sound. It was pretty eerie. Other than that I've never heard a tornado. I've heard the winds aloft/mesocyclone making noise a lot of times, but IMO that sound and the true sound of a tornado are two totally different things. I think it's one of those things that when you actually hear it you'll know it. There won't be any doubt in your mind. It isn't quiet.
I'm not saying that that guy didn't hear a tornado. I have no idea of knowing that. I think that is an extremely weak thing to base a storm report off of and it shouldn't be reported as a tornado IMO. Like somebody said earlier, a tornado needs to be confirmed visually.

 

[Shane Adams]

Are Evan and I the only ones who can see the "possible" in that LSR text?

I'm having trouble understanding why a roar can't be a possible tornado but every time a power pole is found knocked over it can be. Nobody seems to have a problem with all those LSRs, unless there's a thread where people are *****ing about those too that I can't access or even see. That LSR is no more bogus than several hundred that appear annually, none of which garner attention such as this.

Not to be disrespectful to spotters, but chasers expecting them to have the where-with-all in the field that chasers do, and to make "chaser-certified" valid reports, is a little unrealistic and egotistic if you ask me. But what do I know.

 

[Gene Moore]

One of the tornado reports logged in yesterday from a LSR, says:
"STORM SPOTTER OBSERVED A WALL CLOUD AND HEARD A POSSIBLE TORNADO JUST EAST OF THE ..."
1) How do you differentiate the sound of a tornado from the sound of a meso aloft and/or downburst winds?
2) Why would the NWS report that as a tornado?

I see no problem with this, it's only a report and all these reports (so I am told) get further scrutiny later. It's possible this vague entry might be combined with something more tangible, like damage. If not, my bet is it will never grace the pages of Storm Data. That said, I've tried to discredit some bogus reports and it's not that easy. I was informed that it's up to the local Weather Service Office that turned it in.

I for one know what a tornado sounds like and I bet I'm not the only one on this list. There is a very distinct sound associated with one close by and there is nothing else quite like it....that whooshing, or waterfall sound. Even in the daytime it's cause for most chasers to stiffen up a bit. At night it's most assuredly cause for tight knuckles on the steering wheel. Now, does that mean we should start giving spotter sound training....hummm, that would be interesting.

 

[Jim Saueressig]

Are Evan and I the only ones who can see the "possible" in that LSR text?.

Nope, I see it. My post was mainly to the point of when I myself would make a report. I personally would have to be visual with the tornado to report it as such. Otherwise at best I would tell them what I heard in relation to other matters and let them decide what was the best action. I am not throwing negativity at the chaser / reporter / NWS at all. At best its an odd report of what was a "possible" tornado. I think a chaser is responsible for reporting, the NWS is responsible for the warnings. They can at best go with reports from the field and what they are seeing on their own. Its not a perfect science.

Maybe I should put a disclaimer in my sig. (My posting in response to this thread is not intended to push negativity at any one in particular if at anyone at all.

 

[jeremy wilson]

I was within 2 hundred yards of the may 9th 2005 westminster,tx wedge. It was the scariest thing I had ever felt or heard. The ground shook with that bass mikey was talking about and it sounded like Niagra Falls was being sucked down a toilet the size of Dallas(if that makes any freakin' sense at all).

If I ever heard this again I would report it as a tornado. Of course I would think By the time you could hear a tornado of this magnitude you should be able to see it before you hear it unless it was rain wrapped or dark.

 

[Jarrod Cook]

The NWS doesn't have to put out an LSR for each thing they hear get called in. I think it's borderline silly they sent this out. Maybe they found it entertaining and wanted to share

 

[jeremy wilson]

Anyone know if there WAS an actual tornado in this area?

 

[Dann Cianca]

it sounded like Niagra Falls was being sucked down a toilet the size of Dallas(if that makes any freakin' sense at all).

I don't know what that sounds] like ... but it sounds awesome.

 

[Paul Austin]

One of the tornado reports logged in yesterday from a LSR, says:

"STORM SPOTTER OBSERVED A WALL CLOUD AND HEARD A POSSIBLE TORNADO JUST EAST OF THE ..."

I saw it too and wondered the same thing. That said, I think any observation, be it by eye or ear might be relayed to NWS if the spotter deems it helpful to those coordinating warnings. Whether or not an LSR should be generated would be up to the WFO receiving the report, but I would hope any warning issued would be supported by more convincing data or visual confirmation. Too many false alarms just causes the public to ignore warnings more than it already does. Before someone responds, I know, those who are arrogant and ignorant enough to ignore warnings now will always do so. My point is, that any measure to reduce the problem and improve reliability of warnings is a good thing.