Debate: Is an Association Really Necessary

The purpose of such a group would not be to pat ourselves on the back. If that were the case, it would fail miserably. But what it would be is a unified voice of the chaser community. As of now, there is none.

I'm no expert by any means, but the key thing I see here is that it seperates the responsible chasers from the idiots. When a media report comes out, it may or may not make clear that most chasers are responsible. People outside the weather community probably learned about stormchasing through Twister. So all bad reports may be viewed as the norm. Therefore we must have a voice that's ready to counter such media reports. There's always two sides to every story. I can see it as beneficial to make sure this side is heard. If an article is printed in a paper for example, that unfairly attacks chasing...and may contain faulty or biased info, such a group could have a media relations person write a letter to the editor explaining it from the chaser's point of view...or correct erroneous info. As of now, who is going to do this? I am sure most people would sit around waiting for someone else to do it. But as a united and coordinated group, it would get done.

Nobody is saying this is perfect. But until someone suggests something better, I see no reason not to explore the potential of this idea. If it fails, it fails. But why avoid trying to just because there's a chance it fails? There's a 9 in 10 chance that each chase you take will be a bust. Yet does that stop you? Again, I just can't see why anyone would be opposed to something that can only bring good to the community. It's no risk, other than what little time and effort we'll invest in it.

I guess the reason I am so supportive of this idea is that I've dealt with a similar thing for years in another hobby. I am an active shooter and work to preserve my right to own a firearm. There was a point in our history when the thought that guns might be banned was considered laughable. Now we have several restrictions already in place and more being introduced in congress each year. Think of how the media treats that situation. Remember Columbine? Gun owners were blasted by the media after this tragedy and numerous politicians were ready with new anti-gun legislation almost overnight. Yet the sad fact is, this is identical to the dangers chasers may face to their rights in the near future. Most gun owners are not criminals who are careless or murderers. Yet that doesn't seem to matter in the eyes of some politicians. We all know that most chasers are not crazy people who block roads and drive like maniacs either. Yet watch what happens the first time a chaser is at fault for an accident that results in serious injury or death to someone else. When the media gets hold of it, they will milk it dry. And you can bet political heads will turn. Therefore just as gun owners need the NRA to represent them and stand up for their rights, storm chasers may very well need this same type of representation. Think of the parallels here and you will see I have a valid point.

Again, if there's a better way to go about this, I would be all for it. But I am yet to see any alternatives mentioned. It would be great if there could be some way to deal with the troublemakers directly. But short of mob-like activity in which a muscled Italian guy in a leather jacket beats the crap out of these problem individuals and promises to boil them in oil the next time they pull a hair-brained stunt, I see no way direct action against them can work. LOL. We can report illegal behavior, but that is only one step of many that we all can take. While I agree that those of us who care enough to post to this thread are not the problem, how does the outside world know who is responsible or not? If you have a group of 500 or 1000 people that include many veterans, who have written rules of conduct and work to make this info available to the average person or politician, then that's a tremendous advantage over having nothing. It would also show that the vast majority of chasers are responsible people. You can't just assume people will think that, especially if there is no info available to prove it.

I have basically said my peace here and will just sit back and see what everyone else thinks. But I can see this starting good and getting better and improving with time. There's so many other good things such an organization could do that we haven't even thought of yet. I hope to see it implemented and successful. All that's needed to make that happen is simple participation. I hope people will decide to contribute. Only time will tell I suppose.

-George
 
Originally posted by Jeff Wear
The problem I see with an organization like this is that you may get a lot of people who want to join, but you're not going to get enough people to take an active role in helping run the organization. And if you don't have people who are willing or able to volunteer their time and resources into the organization, it's not going to go anywhere. The fact that Stormtrack has had trouble getting enough dedicated volunteers over the past couple years to help run the site make me wonder where we're going to find enough people with the resources and initiative to help run a national organization for storm chasers.

Exactly my point...

I have to bust my balls yearround to get my 8-12 week window of chase time every year, and chasing is what I base EVERYTHING else off of.....so I'm not about to spend my time AWAY from chasing doing anything other than insuring my ability to chase the next year.

I'll keep chasing like I always have, and there will be no mission statement on my website or other object to grab public attention/appeal. Has anyone considered that maybe being invisible is the best way to avoid the public eye? I know I've chased my ass off the past few years and not a damn soul in this world could identify me or look my direction and say "there's a storm chaser!!"

You wanna know the FIRST step in getting rid of the constant spotlight on chasing? Getting chasers to stop whoring video. You wanna blame something for the attention chasers get these days? Blame BNVN. And anything like it.

That's where it starts
 
Creating this huge effort to construct the illusion of "chaser chivalry" will actually create even MORE interest in the activity than it's already getting....so for every 10 people who "see the light" and realize chasers are overall a good bunch, 3-4 of them will be joining us all on the next big storm in Harper Co, Kansas.

BAD IDEA
 
Has anyone on this forum seen "J and Silent Bob Strike Back"?

All we can do is, find the people who make us look bad, and beat the shit outta them.
 
I am not quite sure where everybody is getting the idea that this group would be founded with the sole purpose of finding and weeding out the bad apples....or making people chase differently. Thousands of people are members of the NRA, but they still hunt the same way they always have.

Face it people...chasing is not a secret society that is invisible. It will never be invisible again. And besides...those new young chasers that are about to start their 1st season...would you rather send them out with some knowledge of what to look for, where NOT to drive, ect., or continue to let new young chasers go out completely clueless and get themselves hurt? Where the media is concerned, chasers are not getting favorable reviews...the stories are, at best, borderline. It never hurts to have some good PR coming out for you, no matter what you are involved in. Not everybody is expected to go out and get involved with the public. As with any organization, the level of personal involvement will vary from person to person. Some get very involved, some are only members (which always helps...numbers are good). Some of you seem to think that by either having an association, or being a member of one will take something away from you. I just don't see how this is so.
 
Originally posted by Chris Sokol
I am not quite sure where everybody is getting the idea that this group would be founded with the sole purpose of finding and weeding out the bad apples....or making people chase differently. Thousands of people are members of the NRA, but they still hunt the same way they always have. .

Then what's the damn point? You guys are proposing a helluva lot of effort for "not trying to change the way things are."


Originally posted by Chris Sokol+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chris Sokol)</div>
Face it people...chasing is not a secret society that is invisible. It will never be invisible again.[/b]

Nope, especially not with people trying to create national organizations whose sole intent is to cast the chaser image into the forefront, regardless of motive.



Originally posted by Chris Sokol@
And besides...those new young chasers that are about to start their 1st season...would you rather send them out with some knowledge of what to look for, where NOT to drive, ect., or continue to let new young chasers go out completely clueless and get themselves hurt?.

I was one of those...and here I sit 8 years later with 77 tornadoes. This isn't a question of available education going in, it's a question of dedication. Chris - who taught YOU right from wrong in 1985...in ALABAMA?



<!--QuoteBegin-Chris Sokol

Where the media is concerned, chasers are not getting favorable reviews...the stories are, at best, borderline. It never hurts to have some good PR coming out for you, no matter what you are involved in.

Not being involved at all is the answer here.....c'mon folks, any of you who still think the mainstream media can be trusted are NAIVE beyond definition.
 
Here's another thought.....

Any chaser who's concerned with the level of chasing's "visibility" by the public...that has a website......is a hypocrite.

Eliminate your websites (they're all tops on the internet "storm chaser" keyword search lists anyway, right?) and there's a big part of the "view" killed right there.

You guys think you can expose chasing and then manipulate how it will be perceived....and this is your eternal, fatal flaw........eliminating chasing from public view period is your only chance
 
What are we even asking anymore? No one is going to change their views of the NEED and the WANT that exist for it. So those that want/need, start one up. I mean good grief. How many posts have there been on this now? Various versions of the same thing have been going on here for a long time with basically the same few discussing them. Should just have one topic at this point I'd think. Called. Starting up the national storm chasing organization. Have fun, best of luck.
 
There are some excellent points on both sides. I'd like to see some opinions on this whole concept from the CFDG crowd. If any of you guys are lurking, please sign up for this forum and I'll personally expedite it through so you can participate in this debate.

I myself am not sure where I stand on the issue, but it's a moot point for me anyway since I can't get involved in any other projects at the moment.

Tim
 
Originally posted by Tim Vasquez
I'd like to see some opinions on this whole concept from the CFDG crowd. If any of you guys are lurking, please sign up for this forum and I'll personally expedite it through so you can participate in this debate.


As much as this HURTS to say....and believe me, having anything nice to say about THIS group of socialties pains me beyond words....

These guys have the right idea for the "chaser organization crusade"....which is to say, INVISIBILITY.

I mean, just look at this group of chameleons....just out there and no one knows a thing about any of it. Maybe these guys had the right idea after all.

At least I know I'M thankful I never fell into the mold of "CFDG Light" chasers....thank you guys for keeping your influence well-away from me during my formative years. We're currently seeing the horrific results of a "chaser" who's sole influence is CFDG-esque mentoring and a surname.
 
Shane,

You do make one point I strongly agree with. By saying what I am about to say may create a $hitstorm the likes of which ST has never seen, but I feel it covers a large part of the problem and is worth mentioning. That issue is simply $$$. Taking what was once a hobby and/or scientific research and turning it into a business is a sure fire way to create a ton of problems.

Take this example: I read in one of these threads recently where some people were blocking a road, while they had tripods set up shooting video and refused to move until a cop threatened to arrest them unless they got out of the way. What would necessitate such perfect video as to block a road and refuse to move for authorities? Hmmmm. Most people would be happy with a handheld shot, even if it was a bit shaky. On the other hand, high quality video will bring in more $$$. It seems plausible that people will take extra chances or even do stupid things in order to get a better paycheck from CNN, TWC or Discovery/TLC. Perhaps that's what's causing many of these problems? So Shane, your 'whoring video' concept makes sense. In a world of cut-throat competition, such competition could push people to do some pretty extreme things. I'm not trying to single out any individual in particular, be it chaser or whatever. But perhaps more people should remember this is a hobby, not a livelyhood and act as such. In other words, sell the video you have as the news if need be. Just make sure the video itself isn't the news.

Now I'll don my flame suit and prepare for the brimstone and hell fire that's sure to follow. :wink:
 
Since I do not read any other weather forums (feel I get the best here), I do have one question:

Is this a topic on other weather/chaser sites or just on Stormtrack?

Just curious....
 
Also, let me add, if you have an individual who goes out solely to shoot video to sell to various media groups....should that person be considered something other than a chaser? I mean many of these folks break off the storm after they capture a tornado just so they can be first to upload and get it on the air. Seems these people would be better defined as freelance photo/videographers. Therefore chasers shouldn't be blamed for the bad this group does, since they really aren't chasers or storm enthusiasts for that matter.

Then you have the locals (aka) "yahoos" who flock out to see storms and get in the way. These people likely aren't what would be a chaser in the traditional sense either. These are probably the same type of people like I encounter at traffic accidents who hear the radio calls on their police scanner and come out to have a close-up look at the carnage. Again, not chasers, just nosy people who like to view carnage.

So I dunno, maybe some of you guys are right afterall. If you factor in those groups, that would probably account for at least 95% to 98% of the complaints generated. So maybe chasers shouldn't worry about actions of people who aren't really chasers/spotters to begin with. Let the media worry about them, since they are responsible for generating both groups in large anyway. :D

-George
 
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