Chasers Stuck in the mud in SD

[Doug Ott]

Matthew,

A quick look through your site and I found this. Not that I take issue with that, but what if that had dropped a large tornado, and your road option there was closed? You could have found yourself in the same predicament.

Good find Ben.

One thing I need to ask in reference to this image. Matthew can proably recal and answer. Some others may be able to as well. Was that taken from last year in June? I'm thinking that was the NW MO hail bomb. I could be wrong as well. I chased that storm and that radar image looks very familiar. If it was that storm. It moved SE into MO. I would be interested in finding out.

 

[Matthew Crowther]

Here is a perspective from a semi "old timer" (been chasing since 1989):

Back in the day before the advent of in-car data almost all chasers were very conservative. All we had were paper atlases/maps and of course no radar to show us the details of the storm. I think that most (including myself at times) chasers now are led into what could be a false sense of security because you have the radar and the mapping software- the % of close calls has gone up a lot the past 10 years because of this IMHO.

Based partly on this incident I have a new chase rule for myself: If I am on a storm which is either currently producing tornadoes or may begin to produce them soon, I will NOT take any road which is dirt or gravel not on a major map like Rand McNally etc that is in the path of the storm, allowing for storm expansion, changes in direction etc. This is especially true of the "beast" storms and HP storms, which seem to have a penchant for producing satellite tornadoes etc. Will I miss some tornadoes because of this? Yes. But I am comfortable with that. Someone will always get better video/pics than me anyway, so what's the point? YMMV

 

[Jason Boggs]

Here is a perspective from a semi "old timer" (been chasing since 1989):

Back in the day before the advent of in-car data almost all chasers were very conservative. All we had were paper atlases/maps and of course no radar to show us the details of the storm. I think that most (including myself at times) chasers now are led into what could be a false sense of security because you have the radar and the mapping software- the % of close calls has gone up a lot the past 10 years because of this IMHO.

Based partly on this incident I have a new chase rule for myself: If I am on a storm which is either currently producing tornadoes or may begin to produce them soon, I will NOT take any road which is dirt or gravel not on a major map like Rand McNally etc that is in the path of the storm, allowing for storm expansion, changes in direction etc. This is especially true of the "beast" storms and HP storms, which seem to have a penchant for producing satellite tornadoes etc. Will I miss some tornadoes because of this? Yes. But I am comfortable with that. Someone will always get better video/pics than me anyway, so what's the point? YMMV

These are pretty much the same actions I take when out storm chasing.

 

[Rob Herman]

I did come across an USGS map (year unknown) that does show that road did go through at one time. It was an unimproved dirt type. Just because it's not there now doesn't necessarily mean the farmer took it over with his crop. The county could have vacated the R/W to adjacent land owners. You would have to check with the register of deeds about the status of the R/W now.

 

[Nathan Edwards]

Here is a perspective from a semi "old timer" (been chasing since 1989):

Back in the day before the advent of in-car data almost all chasers were very conservative. All we had were paper atlases/maps and of course no radar to show us the details of the storm. I think that most (including myself at times) chasers now are led into what could be a false sense of security because you have the radar and the mapping software- the % of close calls has gone up a lot the past 10 years because of this IMHO.

Based partly on this incident I have a new chase rule for myself: If I am on a storm which is either currently producing tornadoes or may begin to produce them soon, I will NOT take any road which is dirt or gravel not on a major map like Rand McNally etc that is in the path of the storm, allowing for storm expansion, changes in direction etc. This is especially true of the "beast" storms and HP storms, which seem to have a penchant for producing satellite tornadoes etc. Will I miss some tornadoes because of this? Yes. But I am comfortable with that. Someone will always get better video/pics than me anyway, so what's the point? YMMV

It's a wise rule, and ironically, something I have always followed until this year where I unintentionally broke it twice and both times got too close for my liking. With the Vinson, OK storm earlier which we were both on, I got sucked into the path of the tornado there by paying too much attention to the northern storm, and ended up in the path of the southern storm, albeit with a big well maintained paved highway to head south on. After that, I thought I was being cautious with this storm, but a combination of the cell ingesting and reforming a powerful meso further south, and taking a hard right turn put me in the path of this beast. I'm not sure I can think of any other storms in recent history which have reformed mesocyclones and produced tonadoes so quickly. Even after the drill bit rope had moved north of the road we were on, for a second, I thought we would be ok and the storm would pass over before reforming a new tornado, but looking south, the next tornado was already in progress. From the moment we were on that road, it always seemed to have multiple tornadoes on the ground at the same time.

It's not just roads you have to worry about. I remember one of the Yazoo City videos where the chaser/local was ahead of the storm, and as there car took quite a while to restart with the storm bearing down on them. Too many things can go wrong and hopefully, people will learn form my mistakes here!

 

[Mike Kovalchick]

I had a long discussion with my chase group about this incident and what we should do differently on future chasers.

My own conclusions...DO NOTHING DIFFERENTLY. (Although I will make sure I include a tow rope as I usually do in my vehicle next time.) I think we made lots of excellent decisions on that chase and it really boiled down to just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I am a "Cruise Chaser" so I don't get myself in harm's way nearly as often as say the OK chasers do so my conclusions wouldn't necessarily hold for those who chase a lot.

It is all about relative risk. The chances that I will be run over and injuried/killed by a tornado are VERY small.(but not zero.) I have chased 15 years without a major mishap and even in the near worst case scenario of being trapped in the farmer's field by tornadoes; I still walked away without a scratch. I believe the risk/reward factor is very much in my favor. I accept the risk.

I see few enough tornadoes already each year and I am not about to start becoming even more conservative in how I go about chasing them.

I will chase on dirt roads directly in front of supercells as I found I've seen all my best tornadoes on them. (I'm already cautious about entering wet roads.) In fact, I suspect I will be chasing on even more on them in the future to avoid the crowds.

You shouldn't get the sense that I'm somehow reckless from these conclusions. For example, it was me who first decided that storm was getting too close and it was time to go and our vehicle was the first to enter what turned out to be the dead end road to flee the storm. Let's all be cautious out there but don't go overboard about it!

 

[Bob Schafer]

Someone suggested that one acre of the farmer's 50,000 was ruined for this year. Loss: $5000? (Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know; shut up).

$5000 x 50,000= $250,000,000.

Gosh, I would think that someone who makes 250 million per year would be a little less stressed about losing 5 G's.

 

[Jeff Snyder]

Bob -- revenue != income. In other words, suppose the acre yields $5000 in terms of revenue, but costs $4000 to produce (till, seed, maintain, feed, etc.). This results in a $1000 "income". However, the farmer certainly has the right to expect that the lost revenue be covered. For example, if I break a $500 item in a store, I can't expect that the store will be fine with me just paying the amount that the item cost THEM (e.g. perhaps they buy it for $400, mark it up $100, and sell it to the end-user for $500). If this is what those involved agreed upon, then it is what it is.

I have very little knowledge about the farming industry, so I could be completely off base.

 

[Doug Ott]

Well, Bob you are completely off base with how much money that acre is going to make the farmer. Wheat costs probably $150/acre to grow. If weather is right and sd gets rains they probably average 65-75bu/Acre. Take that times todays price of wheat, or call the nearest elevator to that location and have them tell you the price of wheat for that day. The day this incident happend. If you still think that is outrageous, picture this. You chase and torment a person bigger than you are (somewhat like us chasers do with tornados). Some of us see how close we can get before it chases us. So, yeah I think it's a good analogy. Anyways, he chases you through an apartment building. In the hallway someone is moving out, and has couch blocking the hall. You run through that persons apartment, and his apartment gets destroyed as a result. Who is responsible then? These are all risks we take as chasers Bob. Yes, the road may have been farmed through. Yes, these guys had no escape rout as a result. I understand all that. I don t think it is right that the road was farmed over. Think if these guys would have sued. Start calculating the money of attorney, court costs, and time away from there jobs. These people involved have agreed to meet the farmers demands, whether right or wrong. So, let this thread rest in peace. My gosh. You bring life back to this thread as if this farmer is the one who is wrong. What put those guys out there to beging with. The risk of tornados. Scroll clear back through this thread and read my posts and see whos side I have taken on this whole deal. I believe I have kept an open mind to this whole deal. Though, with your post, I ve sided with the farmer. Bob, I ll bet you if you were there that night you would have met that farmers demands. If I were in that group I sure as heck would have.

Oh, and if farming was making $25000000 then why isn t everyone doing it? Exactly, how long ago did this whole incident occur. How long ago did everyone agree to settle on this deal, and move on with there lives. Why don t you let it rest.

 

[MatthewCarman]

You also have to think if a year is not good such as the result of to much rain or to little rain a farmer could really be hurting. The price for the seeds also changes every year. I have an uncle who is a farmer. His father and his two brothers own a lot of land that they all farm with him. He has a second job and his wife works just because they do not get rich from farming. They may have a confer table living at the moment but that can easily change. Plus there is a lot of costs we don't think about that must be calculated into farming such as gas for the machinery to run etc. You are also paying for manual labor. The farmer puts a lot of time into planting his fields. I know some farmers who are out there every day from sun up to sun down in the busy months working hard to make a living. Maybe $5,000 is more then what they should pay. I don't know but the chasers did the right thing to pay and move on. I don't understand why we need to keep discussing this?

 

[Ben Holcomb]

Rolled into that cost was also the cost for him to pull our vehicles out of the field and his time and inconvenience, which is worth $$$ as well.

 

[Dave Rennie]

After reading this thread I checked and noticed that Google Earth now allows GPS centering, which might be worth firing up and checking if in doubt about the reliability of your mapping program's depiction of a road that you're considering taking.

 

[Jason Foster]

I think you can do the same now within DeLorme's 2011 version of Street Atlas. I've only reviewed the features...haven't picked up the latest version, YET.

 

[Keith Wilson]

I finally finished reading the thread. I am glad that this ended as well as it did, as I think everybody realizes that it could have been tragic.
I don't see where anybody is to blame or at fault for the unfortunate circumstances. Everything doesn't go as we plan it or want it to go, and besides, life would be pretty dull if it did.