Chasers Stuck in the mud in SD

[Doug Ott]

Oh to add to my last post. Just because I would have been more lenient, try to stay out of my fields. LOL. I am sure this has been an eye opener for you, and will make you better chasers in areas like this in the plains.

 

[Doug Ott]

Looks like Matthew is waiting for the hail vault to pass him over.

 

[Kory Hartman]

I was referring to the his placement in relationship to all the other chasers and tornadic activity... nice and safe... 30 miles east of any storm, just outside the TOR warn box.

I hear that's the safest place to watch severe weather.

 

[Mike Kovalchick]

Wow. Looking at those pictures, you had zero options for shelter. Flat open, and no ditches. Just one question? The tree and rock in your pictures, is that where the road was suppose to be? I am assuming so. I think that s what you were saying in your post. If that is the case, looking beyond that, there is a good chance you would have been driving to Minnesota before the next road popped up. I would venture to guess in that desolate area up there, alot of those roads have been farmed over. How bout that little trail behind your subaru? Is that where your drove into the farmers field and got stuck? Or is that where the road should have been? Oh. What did the farmer say bout it being road? Personnaly, the wheat does not look good at all. Had you have insurance take care of it all, the farmer would still hae named his own price any ways. In my mind, he probably saw a way to pick up little extra money, since it looks like a poor crop. When it comes to keeping people happy in the this world, I would say that was reasonable. In any case you guys were all fortunate, and good to hear that everything is being settled out. Sounds like one experience that you will never forget. I would have been more lenient, but all because I chase as well. I understand that we all do/will get ourselves into unseen situations. Just the natrue of the game.

The road should have run straight East just a few yards South of that rock pile. Each big wheat field had a similar rock pile..so it was from clearing the field of boulders..not the remains of an old road.

I didn't discuss much with the farmer except for discussing how my group was going to make payment and expressing my regret for damage to his field.

My Subaru actually didn't get stuck at all initially and made it all the way out in the field with no problem. We just sat there waiting for the storm to past. However, when the hail started to get a bit out of hand-we moved it to angle away from the wind shield..and that is when it got stuck due to all the rain that had fallen on the field by then.

I thought the price was fair..if for no other reason..the cost to pay somebody else to tow us would have been considerable at that very remote location..and also the farmer spent A LOT of his own time helping us with his tractor. It was not at all easy to get us extracted from the field. It didn't help that the tow rope broke in the middle of the operation..and that 2 or 3 vehicles got restuck after the initial tow in the middle of the stream.

This pic looks West..the direction we originally came from.

 

[Bob Hartig]

If I have a problem here, it's with DeLorme. This isn't the first time their mapping has screwed things up, but it was easily the most potentially tragic. I'm taking issue with my own statement in an earlier post about making sure your escape route isn't a death trap, because frankly, how are you going to know that unless you're either a local who knows the roads or else omniscient, in which case you don't need maps in the first place?

Most of us use Street Atlas or something similar. We've got to be able to trust the information the maps provide. Otherwise, what's the point in using them? There was nothing wrong--nothing--with the reasoning that caused every vehicle involved to choose the east option down 130th Street. The road was pre-selected as a viable escape route based on what the mapping software showed. Unfortunately, that information was false. Different, accurate information would have produced different navigation choices for everyone there.

Using a product like DeLorme is based on trust. Unfortunately, DeLorme isn't fully trustworthy. I don't know what the solution is. Sure, you can stay so totally out of harm's way that you don't need an escape route in the first place. For that matter, if you're really serious about minimizing your risks, don't chase storms at all. And even then, there's no guarantee that you won't find yourself in a situation you couldn't have foreseen. Think you're too savvy for that to happen to you? Enjoy your illusion till the day when you get caught with your own zipper down and nowhere to pee.

By the way, attached is a shot of our little beer party right after the tornadoes had passed. We're still getting slammed with RFD, though the worst of it is over. Just to provide a little more perspective on what it was actually like out there.

 

[Doug Ott]

Bob, excellent points.

You can t know the road networks unless your a local. You have to trust what the map tells you. Even then you can get into trouble.

After reading your post, it reminded me of a situation I got myself into in KS, few years back. I had my escape rout all planned out ahead of time. I was watching a storm blow up west of me from 81. Took a highway to the west to get a closer view of it. Thing was tracking little towards me (still 5-10 miles away), and I ended up taking a nice dirt road and road stair steped me mile or two closer, though it was still few miles away from me. The wall cloud eventually became rain wrapped, instead of backtracking into the rain (guessing 7-10 miles), I found on the map the road would lead me to a highway 5 miles Nth. By this time it was pouring rain, and I was thinking what I have I gotten myself into. I was more scared of getting stuck than I was of the storm at the time. The road eventually popped up. Had it not. Well, I would have been a chaser in the mud like all who were in SD.

I was safe distance from the storm, and hung it out till the bitter end. As chasers we all take these risks to see tornados. If we don t take them we will see very few of them. Bottom line is even if we are safe distance from a storm, we all can get ourselves into these predictiments. Even if it only involves watching a rotating wall cloud. I ve even seen guys get stuck or come close to getting stuck parked along the highway. During a HP supercell, it won t matter if we are parked off on a shoulder next to a highway, or on a dirt road. We all run that risk of getting stuck. A chaser gets stuck along a highway on the shoulder or parked in a ditch little ways, or parked in a field driveway, are we going going to say he should have had a better escape rout? Some on here would, but the fact is escape routs can get rained out in a hurry or dead end on us. Even say we all watch a storm move in from 10 miles out. That s a lot of time for that storm to grow into a beast. Once, that happens, boom (especially in HP's, which are very common) we have torential rains, who knows what other crap cutting us off all around. Storms can grow so fast that before we know it, all of sudden we are engulfed. As chasers we all run that risk, unless you park in middle of the highway, or under blue skies.

Beer party? Next time invite me out. I ll bring my tractor.

 

[Jay Cazel]

I have a question for the guys that got stuck......did all you have Delorme? Or did any one have any different ones like Microsoft street and trips or something else? And did they show they same road? Just wondering because I have been hosed by Delorme before and I am running 2008 ver thought about getting 2010 ver. Or maybe trying something else.

 

[bvassmer]

Maybe it was the shear number of people in the field, or the hard work the farmer had to do to get the cars out, but the one time I got myself stuck near a storm, the farmer actually told me to drive THROUGH his field to get to dry roads.

We were chasing in the TX panhandle on May 12, 2005 (a lot of you were there as well), and before the tornado formed, we tried to go a little west of the main N-S paved FM road everyone was sitting on. Why we thought we should do this, I don't know. We took a small dirt road west and it quickly turned muddy. My little Saturn wagon barely made down a hill into a farm access before we were stuck.

At this time, there was hail falling in the storm, but nothing major happening at our location. The curtains of rain and hail were moving closer, however. We started the process for having the 3 guys with me push while we back tracked on an uphill road 3/4 mile in the mud.

Just as we were about to start trying to get out, a truck pulled up next to us and asked if we were okay. We told him of our predicament, but that we thought we could get out by pushing. He promptly suggested that we drive into his field in front of us, as the field was dry only about 100 feet in. He said we could drive through the remainder of the field south (about 1 mile though his field) and get to the next E-W road, which was dry. He then proceeded to tell us he was on his way into the storm to get one of his workers which was stuck in the baseball hail.

Sure enough, about 100 feet in the ground was hard and dry, and the car was able to make it without incident. If it wasn't for that farmer's suggestion, who knows what situation we would be in.

On top of all this, I also know the issues of not having an escape. I am sure a lot of you will remember that same day as the day the tornado that formed knocked power lines across the south escape road, and then proceeded to cross the east escape road, trapping a lot of chasers in huge hail, including myself.

The point(s)?

- Situations will come up that nobody can control.
- You do things you need to do to survive.
- The mapping programs are not accurate. Never assume a road is going to stay in good condition, no matter what it looks like on Delorme/MS Streets, etc.
- If the farmer wants a fee to tug you out and to repay him for his crop damage, that is honestly the least owed to the guy. I agree with what Mike Kovalchick said:

I thought the price was fair..if for no other reason..the cost to pay somebody else to tow us would have been considerable at that very remote location..and also the farmer spent A LOT of his own time helping us with his tractor.

 

[Justin Teague]

Delorme has a data corrections form on their website for situations like these. We (storm chasers) could actually send in quite a few corrections, which would help to prevent chasers from being "Delormed" in the future. Here is the link to the form:

http://www.delorme.com//customerservice/revisions.asp

 

[Bart_Comstock]

I have a question for the guys that got stuck......did all you have Delorme? Or did any one have any different ones like Microsoft street and trips or something else? And did they show they same road? Just wondering because I have been hosed by Delorme before and I am running 2008 ver thought about getting 2010 ver. Or maybe trying something else.

I was using my 2006 road shape file I got off of GRlevelXStuff.com on GR3 for navigation and it too shows the road going all the way through. According to the Sheriff, up until this year that road went all the way through. It was all the rain and snow from the winter that caused it to breakdown and make it so the farmer could easily plant over it.

 

[Ben Holcomb]

As you can tell from the image Adam Lucio posted, we were using Microsoft Streets & Trips 2010. So, not only did I have a 'trusted' name but I had the most current version.

Bob makes a great point - If you can't trust your mapping software at all, where do you draw the line?

 

[Doug Ott]

I was using my 2006 road shape file I got off of GRlevelXStuff.com on GR3 for navigation and it too shows the road going all the way through. According to the Sheriff, up until this year that road went all the way through. It was all the rain and snow from the winter that caused it to breakdown and make it so the farmer could easily plant over it.

I figured that it used to go through at one point. Farmer farmed through it last year. Wow. That little trail through the wheat seen in some of the pictures, I would be interested to know if that went through. I am guessing it did, when I look at the one picture and see that yard off in the east, was that where the farmer lived? Anyways thanks for that post Bart. That answered a question I have had in my mind for awhile now. I suppose being that I farm myself this thread really caught my attention.

 

[Skip Talbot]

See those little grey lines? Those were produced automatically by software reading a database that was created from a survey that was done who knows how many years ago. After they were put into the software they were probably never checked by an actual human to see if the information was entered correctly, and may go years before being updated if they are updated at all. Knowing that, you have to think... I'm staking my life on those little grey lines.

Everyone should realize that when they chase. Its not just the mapping data that could be off, but a downed tree or flooded road could have createed the exact same problem. I'm not criticizing anyone here for the route they chose as I briefly considered doing something very similar on that day, but I'm overly cautious since I'm driving a front wheel drive minivan with highway tires. Its crucial that everyone realize that there is an xx% chance that road might not actually be there or is impassible, and what repercussions that might have. Will it cost you a view of the tornado or will it cost you your life? Gambling with those roads in the bear's cage is extremely dangerous. If you are willing to take that gamble, more power to you. You may end up with the day's best shots. I just hope people aren't relying on this software and the information it contains (which may be the same on paper maps) to the point that their safety depends on it.

I also rely exclusively on Street Atlas for my navigating, and you guys are absoutely right. Its a POS and should not be trusted. It seems alright at first but then can completely screw you over when you need it most. I find it to be extremely valuable for the most part and an essential tool in my chase arsenal, however. I know there are errors in the software and the information is not update though, so I'm always skeptical with these lesser roads and tend to err on the safe side.

 

[GlennMartin]

This thread actually would be a good education for new chasers on what can fail during a chase. Chasing for over 20yrs multiple things have happened to me including getting stuck, Low hanging power lines, tree and or debris blocking the road, bridge out, poor map or poor road, dead ends, detours, road flooded, traffic, other chasers blocking the route, car trouble, flat tire, suddenly ill, equipment failure, lack of data, windshield smashed and the list goes on and on. The point is while usually these things won't happen while giving a violent beast the right of way they can and will. When you are young you tend to feel invincible but as you age you realize more and more the frailty of life, and what it would mean to those who depend on you to lose it. It takes a bit of daring confidence to chase storms in the first place and with the trend of many to get as close as possible your safety margin of error can be reduced exponentially.
I personally am concerned with the glorification in recent years of "getting inside the tornado" and human nature being what it is those chasers surviving it reinforce like behavior. My concern is not with those who try to get close in a responsible way but with those less educated who will try and emulate them. When I started you had to be somewhat weather savvy to even have a lick of a chance out there. Even causing me to pursue a career path in meteorology at one point. The new chaser today doesn't need any of that to be somewhat successful it is his or her choice really. Actually they can just follow the icons on the spotter network and find themselves suddenly in a threatening situation with no experience how to proceed.
I tend to be somewhat toward the libertarian spectrum on many things so if you enjoy getting as close as possible it should be a choice of your free will. A tornado is just wind and debris though. To touch it won't give you nirvana, it won't give you the answer to the meaning of life and it definitely doesn't contain a pot of gold unless it just struck Fort Knox. Having jotted down my thoughts I just want to add that I am impressed by how the chasers caught in this event conducted themselves with each other, those harmed by their actions and the community. It is refreshing to find responsibility in this day and age of easy blame. When we leave our homes to depart on a chase there are always a series of unlikely events which could lead to disaster, most of them have nothing to do with violent tornadoes. Here is a good read from Doswell's latest blog entry

http://www.flame.org/~cdoswell/chaser_convergence.html

 

[Scott Bennett]

We absolutely were not trying to "Get Close" we were trying to avoid the convergance. If you check the video of at least our group (Adam, Danny, Ben & Myself) you will see that almost all of it is taken on gravel/dirt.

On the 4-5 chases we have done as a group this year we avioded pavement at all costs to avoid the convergance. Our stratagy has been to have well planned routes away from anyone else well ahead of the precip. This stratagy has worked very well providing us unique views nobody else had. It's really simple, the road was on the map, road ended unexpectedly. We knew cars were trapped in the now precip covered road behind us. There was no excape path, it was a short road. We had one way out with at least 2 tornadoes on the ground behind us, we took it. This is not about trying to get close this was about trying to live.