Chaser Irresponsibility

Chill

Ok so I dont post a whole lot, being a so called .... Junior Member or what not... I can see why these old timers are having such a great deal saying things such as "its ruining our image". Just chill out... this post is not worth 3 pages of ripping this guy a NEW ***HOLE. Honestly lets see how many people will be out during a tornado warning at an intersection.... as it is ripping down power lines. All the older experienced chasers just chill... he did something wrong he admitted to it... now whats anyone going to do about it... his adrenaline rush was fullfilled. Nobody was hurt. No tickets were given out. Wow lets freak out though, since us older guys dont get so excited after already seeing hundreds of tubes. Honestly if you want to keep throwing a hissy fit, make an agreement on severe studios or what not and terminate the next account to go against the rules... He had a great chase and didnt interfere with any single one of our lives directly so chill out. Oh and if im wrong feel free to point it out... go for it ... just go right ahead and tell me how Im wrong. Since ya know most of yall have so so so much more experience and common sense then me... Seriously that would be just great... This is just my opinion... dont mind it. ;)
 
Just to make sure everyone gets it this time, I said running a red light at a deserted intersection, which implies you can see well before you reach it the intersection's empty, of other vehicles, pedestrians, purple puppy dogs, everything. I've heard the "2am phone call" lecture a zillion times, it doesn't matter. I know what's safe and what isn't, and many times these do not parallel what's legal.

If anyone who likes to snoop stream gets me doing something they consider dangerous or irresponsible, pull over next to me when I stop again. I'll make sure your live stream gets an 'R' rating :-)
 
Greg, Shaun, I've never met either of you, but after reading all these posts, I've got to take my hat of to you both. You've taken a verbal azz whippin' and dusted yourselves off and stood up like men and stated your apologies. Well done, guys.
One of my all time favorite sayings...of which I have many.. is: Life is nothing more than a series of adjustments.
I think that kinda nails it, don't you think?
I know damn well that I've driven like an absolute moron while trying to catch my prey...many many times. A few years back I put the Hertz rent-a-hailcatcher SUV in a 180 at roughly 80 mph north of Concordia on a rain-slickened road. This incident pretty much cured me of the insane weavos-to-the-wall driving that I'd gotten myself used to while chasing. It's funny...but now I find myself driving like an old man. It happened to me again just this morning on the way to my business. I drive a big dually Ford one-ton, and while looking in the rear view mirror, I noticed that I was holding up a lot of cars behind me. I was doing 38 in a 45...and was so involved with the tune on XM that I got the slows. And it truly goes back to that incident near Concordia.
Every now and again we ALL need our chains jerked...no matter what the infraction is. I'm glad this problem was posted in S.T. today...perhaps we can all keep it in the back of our minds as we continue to harvest the bounty that '08 has been dishing out.
And fellas (and gals too), if you encounter a chaser doing some really dangerous boneheaded stuff....none of need to immediately leap into fight mode.....THAT would be boneheaded. All that's really needed would be a bit of controlled....courteous, reminders addressed to the one who's doing the infraction. No need to jump into somebody's azz. You'd be surprised how much mileage a level-headed and respectful "jerk of the chain" will reap.
Just one man's opinion though....of course. Joel
 
Bad Spot

While again I'm not condoning mine or Sean's actions, there were a few factors that did lead us to them. When chasing with a partner, I will not leave them, no matter what. We had another rotating cell coming in behind us from the southwest as we were tracking this tornado (started showing stronger couplets after we headed north through town) and I felt that we needed to get to the next east route as quickly and as safely as possible which was the Lincoln Highway. The tornado to our north had still not crossed the road and the stuff behind us was closing in. As it turned out we still couldn't get away from the next cell and we pulled behind some large industrial area as another small tornado passed over us. We were making reports to Spotter Network the whole time. The roads were fairly deserted with a few cars, but Sean and I run with our lights on, which I think acts as another warning system for drivers who may not have heard the tornado sirens. We have gone through many communities where people become so relaxed about the sirens. We will stop and inform locals to get inside a safe place. Many people will approach us asking for help and directions because they see our spotter decals. I know I have kept at least a few people safer this year by my actions. The cameras don't show my head swiveling back and forth before each intersection checking for oncoming traffic, but I was. More important than any storm is the safety of myself and my new wife, Lydia, who is my navigator and live streamer. Unfortunately it looks like we are yahoos just trying to get the best shot (which I really could care less about since we have never sold anything and I have no media contacts), when in reality we were in a bad situation just trying to get to a safer spot.
I agree with everyone in this post, and we are again sorry for the bad publicity this could generate for the chaser community.
 
There are always exceptions to every rule. I'm sure everyone of us have at some time played that card. But we must still obey the laws of the land. They're there for a reason. In the heat of the moment I personally think that bending the rules while exercising caution is okay. As storm chasers and spotters, our concern should always be for the safety of the people in our vehicles and for those that live in the communities where we chase. It's our duty to try to save and protect lives. As I follow storms into a town, I might not always stop at every stop sign or red light but I NEVER go through an intersection without checking traffic first (pedestrian and vehicle). Always be careful about assuming you are "getting the whole story." You cannot see what is taking place inside my vehicle. You could not see that I was honking and pointing out the tornado to the people driving into it with no regard for their own life. I was trying to catch up to them to make sure that I was the first one in the path. There were several times that night that Greg and I stopped chasing and blocked the highway to keep people from driving into the path of the tornado. Anyone who knows me or has ever chased with me knows that safety and the lives of others are my first priority. I respect everyones opinion on this thread. The point that makes perfect sence to me is, if you see someone breaking the law, speak with them afterwards about your concern, in private, with a level head. No point in losing a friend over something like this. It's too easy now days to make enemies. It's always better to point something out to a person than to use a forum like this to shame or slam them. If you can't say something to someone face to face then don't say anything at all. I respect a person who can look me in the eyes and tell me what's on their mind. Again, I apologize to those that I've offended.
 
Ok so I dont post a whole lot, being a so called .... Junior Member or what not... I can see why these old timers are having such a great deal saying things such as "its ruining our image". Just chill out... this post is not worth 3 pages of ripping this guy a NEW ***HOLE. Honestly lets see how many people will be out during a tornado warning at an intersection.... as it is ripping down power lines. All the older experienced chasers just chill... he did something wrong he admitted to it... now whats anyone going to do about it... his adrenaline rush was fullfilled. Nobody was hurt. No tickets were given out. Wow lets freak out though, since us older guys dont get so excited after already seeing hundreds of tubes. Honestly if you want to keep throwing a hissy fit, make an agreement on severe studios or what not and terminate the next account to go against the rules... He had a great chase and didnt interfere with any single one of our lives directly so chill out. Oh and if im wrong feel free to point it out... go for it ... just go right ahead and tell me how Im wrong. Since ya know most of yall have so so so much more experience and common sense then me... Seriously that would be just great... This is just my opinion... dont mind it. ;)

Ah yes, the always logical, vets against the newbies "angle". It makes as much sense as supercells in Antarctica. As if it's just the mean old vets having a negative thought on this one. Please.

If anyone is really freaking out, it would appear that it's you. Chill dude! lol Vets and older chasers don't hate you because you are new. It's true. Go celebrate. They might start hating if you keep telling them to chill when basing your post wrongly(you asked) against just them.
 
Ok so I dont post a whole lot, being a so called .... Junior Member or what not... I can see why these old timers are having such a great deal saying things such as "its ruining our image".

Well an old timer would know better than you what can or can't ruin someones image.

Just chill out... this post is not worth 3 pages of ripping this guy a NEW ***HOLE.

The only ripping I have really seen yet is you vs the "Old timers"


Honestly lets see how many people will be out during a tornado warning at an intersection.... as it is ripping down power lines.

Well lets see..... Anyone who is out in their town when the tornado hits will be out during a tornado warning at an intersection or did you get the impression there was a mandatory "Go home and get in your basements till tomorrow morning" curfew issued?

For that matter the common civilian will be trying to run and save their own ass already adding to the risk of the chief complaint of this thread.

All the older experienced chasers just chill... he did something wrong he admitted to it...

Yes he did and we all noticed so why are you flying off the handle? ;)


now whats anyone going to do about it... his adrenaline rush was fullfilled. Nobody was hurt. No tickets were given out. Wow lets freak out though, since us older guys dont get so excited after already seeing hundreds of tubes. Honestly if you want to keep throwing a hissy fit, make an agreement on severe studios or what not and terminate the next account to go against the rules... He had a great chase and didnt interfere with any single one of our lives directly so chill out. Oh and if im wrong feel free to point it out... go for it ... just go right ahead and tell me how Im wrong. Since ya know most of yall have so so so much more experience and common sense then me... Seriously that would be just great... This is just my opinion... dont mind it. ;)

You obviously have some kind of severe issue with veteran chasers (old timers) so I am not sure what more to tell you except Chill out about the Old Timers!


I roll stop signs in rural areas to improve gas economy. ;)

Ahhhh that explains it. In that case I have seen a whole helluva lot of fuel conservation going on........ GOOOOOO GREEN!!!!!

LOL


I respect everyones opinion on this thread. The point that makes perfect sence to me is, if you see someone breaking the law, speak with them afterwards about your concern, in private, with a level head. No point in losing a friend over something like this. It's too easy now days to make enemies. It's always better to point something out to a person than to use a forum like this to shame or slam them. If you can't say something to someone face to face then don't say anything at all. I respect a person who can look me in the eyes and tell me what's on their mind. Again, I apologize to those that I've offended.

You will notice I never posted a name to start off with. Even then it was not my intention on slamming you or anyone personally. You guys just happened to be the case most people knew about from the night before that was able to be used as an example to a problem at hand that includes many more people than you and Greg. You guys handled it well, I would guess you gained not only the respect of those who had seen what was going on but the respect of others as well for your great response.

Not directed at you guys but this issue needed voiced in my opinion because no amount of " you old timers are just pissing and moaning" or " I will do whatever the fack I want when chasing and the hell with anyone else and if you don't like it try to stop me" responses will fix a situation when someone is t-boned and killed while you are in the middle of an "adrenaline rush" or "running from the cell behind you". You chose to go there and seek this beast knowing this could happen and so its still no excuse to put others in danger if you have to run from it.

This post was never about those who might blow a stop sign out in the wild or speed down a country road, hell I do that on any given day. Its still not legal but..... This post was not an attack on anyone either so those thinking it was needs to reread the posts. It was as was said before just mainly about using some common sense even when the adrenaline has kicked you in the arse.
 
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Lynch mod mentallity

It is a proven fact that when a group of "same intrest" people are together, the group will take on one personality. They will do things together that none on their own would ever do. Its called Lynch mob mentallity. It is very easy to get caught up in one. Espessially in an emotionally charged situation like chasing a tornado. Same applies to a group on a forum. I say we throw a rope over a low branch and hang Greg!
Seriously, when in an intense or even life threating situation, slow down and take a couple deep breaths and re evaluate. It might save your life or the life of an other,
 
If everyone just worried about themselves we would all be a lot better off. And if you really feel that threatend by other chasers actions, by all means stay home....

Yes by all means Dustin:

Lets not worry about kids with guns in schools because those kids can do what they want, it is after all their choice to take a gun to school. Let them worry about themselves cause they wont hurt anyone. Lets stop bothering the drug dealers hanging out at those schools as well, they are just doing what they feel is right, we have no business interfering with them. Lets just worry about ourselves.

While we are at it lets quit worrying about people who drive drunk, hell its their right to drink and drive, if we don't like it we can just stay home.
 
I say we throw a rope over a low branch and hang Greg!

Hell Greg even seen the problem with the topic of this thread, it is those few others who are of the mindset that they will do as they wish regardless of the consequences to others who are a bigger threat than Greg or Sean ever was. They were caught up in the moment and made a few choices that were not the best choices to be made. These others are obviously in it for themselves and do not like being told not to shoot into a crowd to get the person who they are trying to kill in the first place.

Hell a terrorist bombs a school because they are mad at the government, those stupid ass children should know better than to go to school.... makes sense to me.
 
If everyone just worried about themselves we would all be a lot better off. And if you really feel that threatend by other chasers actions, by all means stay home....

Some of us get to deal with the outcome of reckless behavior. I love the argument "Who else is going to be out there during a tornado". It only takes one person to cross the intersection...one person with a green light, a family driving away from the storm, a public safety vehicle responding somewhere...oh, yeah...how about another chaser, quite possibly you, driving the other direction? You glance up from the tornado, the light is green, you accelerate on through the intersection, and then...you get to come and see my place of employment. If your lucky that is.

Brendon Lindsey said:
Ok so I dont post a whole lot, being a so called .... Junior Member or what not...

What does being a Junior member have to do with whether or not you post a lot?

Brendon Lindsey said:
Honestly lets see how many people will be out during a tornado warning at an intersection.... as it is ripping down power lines.

See above. If you have ever driven through a town during a tornado, you would know the answer. I can direct you to pics and video if you need.

Brendon Lindsey said:
Since ya know most of yall have so so so much more experience and common sense then me...

Well, unfortunately for you this is true...with time does come experience. Just as with anything else that you do, those who have been doing it longer have more experience. As for common sense...if you actually condone dangerous driving.....

No offense, but when it comes to a safety issue such as this, you have not earned the right to tell me to "chill out" until you have been in my shoes. It's a wonderful thing getting to do CPR on a ten year old child, knowing that if you do save the child he will never be normal again, just because somebody blew a red light.

***EDIT: I do want to say that I commend the offenders in this case for coming forward. That is a huge step in the right direction.***
 
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Some of us get to deal with the outcome of reckless behavior. I love this argument: "who else is going to be out there during a tornado?" It only takes one person to cross the intersection - one person with a green light, a family driving away from the storm, a public safety vehicle responding somewhere, or another chaser (quite possibly you) driving the opposite direction. You glance up from the tornado and see that the light is green, you accelerate on through the intersection, and then you get to see my place of employment - if you're lucky, that is.

Your argument is valid, but I don't quite understand what your point is. We aren't talking about a situation where a chaser is leaving a town to get l33t footage of a tube plowing a field on the outskirts, running red lights and putting others in danger in the process. This was a case where a tornado was in the town, and a chaser was following the tornado.

Before I get to the chaser's motive, here's the answer to the "2 AM phone call" argument as it applies to this case: if a family is on the road escaping a tornado that's in town, they're idiots, plain and simple. Half of all the deaths in the 1979 tornado that struck my hometown were from people killed in their cars while attempting to escape. If you are attempting to leave an area affected by a tornado with no training or experience on how to drive as safely as possible relative to tornadic situations, you are a fool, and it is your fault - not nature's, and not the actions of a chaser/spotter or some other fool driving willy-nilly away from the storm - that you ended up (possibly with your whole family) at a hospital. The only time when it is acceptable for Joe Public to drive in this situation is if he's just at the wrong place at the wrong time on the road or in a mobile home, and must escape the path because he has no other way to immediately and rationally seek shelter. At that point, all those other people on the road pose a much less risk to life and limb than the tornado itself.

That being said, anyone choosing to be on the road at the time of a tornado - whether trained or not - is inherently choosing to accept the risk of a dangerous driving situation. This isn't a Sunday drive around town to go pick up some things at the Wal-Mart. If you're talking safety, a sturdy shelter is the safest place to be, in an interior room or basement with Rosie O'Donnell laying on you. The road - for reasons of the tornado and of the chaotic drivers - is certainly not safe during a tornado, and that should be immediately obvious to the most casual observer.

Now, as for the chaser himself, was he morally right doing what he did? To go back to 1979, listen to the tapes of the spotter network that are archived on the NWS website. Several spotters state clearly they run stoplights to keep up with the tornado, and that was back in a time where less people knew better and thus more panicked people crowded the roads. Were these spotters morally right in doing what they did? I say yes, because they relayed important information about the position of the tornado as it rolled through the city, and at the very least they could have saved other spotters or even people monitoring radio who were otherwise out of power at the time.

If this chaser was relaying information via phone, or had a rational basis to believe his internet stream was relaying or gathering important information to the right personnel, then he was morally justified keeping up with the storm (or staying out of harm's way). I don't think he'd be morally justified breaking the law and putting others on the road (for whatever reason) in more danger if he was gonna set some probe somewhere in the middle of the friggin city (as opposed to a safer countryside area) or if he was simply following along to oogle at the damage like Beavis getting excited over a fire, but I seriously doubt he was there just to capture Faces of Death type carnage on video for nothing but his own glory.

Given that his actions weren't of this type, and given that running the intersections was warranted to keep up with the storm or keep out of it, then his actions to break the law were morally justified. Emergency personnel and spotters/chasers are well aware of the elevated driving dangers already, and it can be assumed at least that a spotter or chaser is bright enough to recognize and not interfere with an emergency vehicle's operation. As for Joe Public on the road in a city during a tornado instead of in a shelter, I have very little sympathy for him.

As for common sense...if you actually condone dangerous driving.....

I don't condone dangerous driving just like I don't condone murder. But if someone's in your house about to kill you and you have a gun, I condone it all the way. Laws are not Kantian imperatives that must be followed at all times no matter what the situation.
No offense, but when it comes to a safety issue such as this, you have not earned the right to tell me to "chill out" until you have been in my shoes. It's a wonderful thing getting to do CPR on a ten year old child, knowing that if you do save the child he will never be normal again, just because somebody blew a red light.

No matter how much experience one has on one side of a discussion than the other, reality will still always win out every time. We knew of a particular idiot who chucked his kids in his truck and attempted to escape in '79 (instead of getting in his BASEMENT), only to get his truck flipped. Thankfully his kids were okay, but let's say he "booked it" past an intersection and got hit by one of the spotters that day who ran the light and who unfortunately didn't see him due to the chaos. Who would be responsible for the loss of the kid's life in that case? That's right, the dad.

***EDIT: I do want to say that I commend the offenders in this case for coming forward. That is a huge step in the right direction.***

If this case for some reason goes to trial and this guy for some reason gets convicted, then he is an offender. Otherwise, he allegedly offended, and for all we know a judge or jury would sufficiently determine that he had just cause to break the law and overturn the conviction.

If this chaser knows what he did was wrong - if he WAS just there doing it for his own glory entirely or just to woohoo at the carnage - THEN his apology is certainly warranted. Otherwise, his apology is nothing more than an attempt to quell the fires that are currently raging over this.
 
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