CHASER HAMS & SPOTTERS NOT INVOLVED IN FORMAL SKYWARN NETS

  • Thread starter Thread starter Shane Adams
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What I am saying is that you don't need to wait for the WCM to call your county official before starting a Skywarn net... If the people in charge of your operations need to be individually notified that severe weather is coming - it might be time to get new people in the mix. There are WAY too many outlets of this information in advance that they shouldn't be relying on Mike's phone call.
 
I am the net control operator (most of the time) for a net that runs in the southern portion of Greg's office (NWS Fort Worth). Our repeater has very wide area coverage that includes all or parts of twenty counties. We were also one of the first, if not the first, to use EchoLink to connect to the NWS. (This allows direct conversations between the NWS and the spotters.)

The folks in Fort Worth love us because of the coverage and the participation of people in the rural areas of their coverage area. My list currently has over one hundred hams that have checked in over the past couple of years. If you want on the list, check in during an event. (The list is kept so that I can keep track of names and locations.)

I have a very good set of tools (GRL2AE /3, RealEMWIN, Digital Atmosphere, UIView, many URLs etc.) to follow the event from before it starts until it clears the last of the counties we cover. I usually know where things are popping and know the questions to ask a spotter/chaser to verify the reports. I also have to monitor the Austin/San Antonio office since a lot of our weather originates in their CWA.

Over the past several years many Central Texans have started listening to our net because of the quality of the information. If we have chasers (usually Texas A & M met students), we welcome their reports.

With this being said, I can not check into the Dallas RACES net if I happen to be passing through. You must be a member of their 'team' with an id to make a report. That is the rules of their net and it works for them. I respect it because of the confusion that can result in a metropolitan area and its many 'spotters'.

The spotters on our net are quite often 'farm boys’ whose livelihood is very dependent on weather and they have been brought up watching and cussing it.

BTW, I contend that a rancher/farmer setting on his tractor with his wetted thumb testing the wind can give a better report than most of the porcupine cars scooting over by-ways at sixty miles per hour trying to get footage for the next “It Could Happen Tomorrow”.

I just discovered this thread a few minutes ago and now must terminate this epistle so that I can get up at five AM to visit Greg and the other folks in Fort Worth for SKYWARN Appreciation Day tomorrow.

If you are passing through, information to connect to our net is given below. Reports gladly accepted...

Joe Dorn, W5VEX, Belton, Texas

Trustee W5BEC 147.140 (PL 123), EchoLink W5BEC-R (Node 99000)
Home: (254) 939-5918 Cell: (254) 721-0829
Instructor & Mentor ARRL EC Courses (Over 180 students and counting)
Instructor: United States Power Squadrons' Weather Course
Central Texas Trauma Council Amateur Radio Coordinator (13 hospitals)
 
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BTW, I contend that a rancher/farmer setting on his tractor with his wetted thumb testing the wind can give a better report than most of the porcupine cars scooting over by-ways at sixty miles per hour trying to get footage for the next “It Could Happen Tomorrowâ€￾.

....

If you are passing through, information to connect to our net is given below. Reports gladly accepted...

I am willing to bet that attitude laid out in the first paragragh isn't going to foster any storm chaser to want to give those reports...
 
I decided not to read all the post's but I have at least read a fourth of them.

Regardless if this works or is implemented heres my info.

KD8ATP operating almost 3 years coming in the end of Dec.
I have chased/spotted for 8 seasons
I have put 20,000 plus miles per year during last 4 years and have reported several tornadoes in the plains and the midwest. I have a few photos up at several NWS websites particularly, ILX, IWX, IND.
 
The spotters on our net are quite often 'farm boys’ whose livelihood is very dependent on weather and they have been brought up watching and cussing it.

BTW, I contend that a rancher/farmer setting on his tractor with his wetted thumb testing the wind can give a better report than most of the porcupine cars scooting over by-ways at sixty miles per hour trying to get footage for the next “It Could Happen Tomorrowâ€￾.

Love the attitude. Your post is so full of contradiction it just makes me sick. On one hand you are saying you are willing to take reports from us, then you tell us you will take farmer Bob's reports over ours (thats fine, just remember you are talking to chasers), then you insult us by generalizing us all into savage, film hungry, antenna covered, no good chasers. Get out of the ham shack for once and look at the sky.


I just discovered this thread a few minutes ago and now must terminate this epistle so that I can get up at five AM to visit Greg and the other folks in Fort Worth for SKYWARN Appreciation Day tomorrow.

Trustee W5BEC 147.140 (PL 123), EchoLink W5BEC-R (Node 99000)
Home: (254) 939-5918 Cell: (254) 721-0829
Instructor & Mentor ARRL EC Courses (Over 180 students and counting)
Instructor: United States Power Squadrons' Weather Course
Central Texas Trauma Council Amateur Radio Coordinator (13 hospitals)

Nice name dropping. I still question why you are on a chasing forum; I am sure you can go out and find you a forum full of 'good old boys' (and their tractors of course) who would rather talk about their equipment.

If you are passing through, information to connect to our net is given below. Reports gladly accepted...

I don't own a tractor, can I still report? :confused: I promise I won't report how heavy its raining or how dark the clouds are.


Welcome to the forum,

Graham
 
Joe Dorn said:
BTW, I contend that a rancher/farmer setting on his tractor with his wetted thumb testing the wind can give a better report than most of the porcupine cars scooting over by-ways at sixty miles per hour trying to get footage for the next “It Could Happen Tomorrow”.

I drive a porcupine minivan scooting at 70mph (daytime speed limit in TX) trying to get footage for "It Happened Yesterday"... can I report to you since I don't fall under your silly stereotype? Oh yeah.. I wear a REDSKINS jersey in Texas, too... mmm, I bet I'm out now, huh...

Oh yeah, another question...

Who the hell are you?
 
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The “good ol’ boys” sitting on their tractors that Joe speaks so highly of are generally busy reporting irrelevant things that don’t need to be reported. I’ve listened in on a lot of Skywarn nets and I hear a lot of “the sky sure is dark” or “it’s starting to rain” reports than actual reporting of severe weather. So from what Joe said, it sounds as though he values the “it’s raining” reports from the good ol’ boy than reports of actual tornadoes or large hail from storm chasers who spent their life educating themselves on the science behind the weather and actually knows what they’re talking about and looking at.
 
I can see by this thread that it ain't never gonna happen. Thanks to each of you who submitted your callsigns and information, sorry I wasted your time. I've tried to turn the other cheek, stay positive, and interested in this despite all the negative feedback from the spotter half of this issue, but the truth of the matter is, my patience is run out.

Whether anyone likes it or not, chasers are far more experienced than the average spotter top to bottom, and that's the difference. If spotters don't want chasers to use that experience trying to work together, so be it. There's an old saying about cutting out the middle man, and a cell phone call direct to the NWS perty much takes care of that.

Again, sorry I wasted everyone's time who submitted.
 
I just got my ham radio licenses, but even prior to getting it I've questioned whether or not having a ham radio will be helpful at all when it comes to reporting severe weather. I know it will when I'm chasing/spotting in my own neck of the woods and using the repeaters I'm familiar with and being amongst people I'm familiar with, but really when out chasing in Texas or Oklahoma I think that more than anything it will be used more to communicate with other chasers.

Like some have said, I've had a lot of success just calling my reports in to the NWS. I just don't want to deal with people like Joe who would rather take a "it's raining hard" report from some Joe on a tractor than a report from a chaser who has a tornado on the ground.
 
It was a good run Shane. Unfortunately, Moses didn't move the mountain in a day, nor was Rome built overnight.

Keeping on the upside, there are positives to both sides of the fence as well as negatives. Keep trying Shane, it take some grass roots to get the thing started and if nothing else, you've highlighted some of the areas for improvement.

The Us vs. Them attitude really has to go first. As long as that menatality prevails, any attempt at improvement will be derailed. Unfortunately, each County, each City, each Spotter Net, each Chaser, has their own little fiefdom and generally they won't budge. Fortunately, there ARE some out there that welcome a Storm Chasers reports.

Even within NOAA, it's almost a divided nation. Some give credit where it due and respect where it's earned and others think Chasers are the worst thing to happen and infringe on their person storm. Same with some Chasers.

We've seen it highlighted within this thread what has to be overcome, but until all the factions unite, it's going to be a tough road.

Shane, You made good points and got the bug in some ears out there. It's certainly a first step. Don't abandon all hope just yet. Give it some time. Let it grow a bit and maybe we'll be able to see some positives grow from the negative attitudes.

John Diel
 
John is right. I see a lot of willingness from both sides to work together on this. From what I can see, the 'problem' factions may be a minority, and not worth giving up on the whole.

I might be out of place posting in this thread at all, since I've never even considered for a minute to become a HAM and buy a radio. But if I can see HAM ever being practical over a simple cell phone call, I may consider it in the future.
 
Whether anyone likes it or not, chasers are far more experienced than the average spotter top to bottom,

Wow. Talk about WAY wrong. I'd say most spotters have been spotting for MUCH longer than most chasers. Twister did NOT bring a big jump in the Skywarn logs. I'd say it did affect the chaser population though...

You spend your entire thread trying to break stereotypes and bring together two groups, and then end it with a completely unnecessary and clearly inaccurate SLAM on an entire group based on a very small percentage of net controllers...

Wow.
 
Well Rob, look at this way...

Average spotter spots from a fixed point or moves around within one, or maybe a few counties. Has been doing this lets say 10 years. His area averages say 10 good spotter activation/storm events per year. That would put an average of about 100 storms that spotter has personally observed, probably only a small portion of the life span of. They may or may not have been supercells, probably 90 of them didn't even produce tornadoes. Believe it or not, a significantly large portion of spotters I have talked to have never even seen a tornado in person.

Average chaser. Let's say they have been chasing for only 5 years, half of the time of that spotter. However, they chase a LOT, and go all over the plains for just about every decent event. Sees 20 good storm days a year, most likely saw supercells at least 15 of those days and probably saw around 10 tornadoes. And most of the time they probably viewed most if not all of that storms life cycle.

That chaser just gained way more experience in 5 years than that spotter ever did in 10 years.

Certainly there are some spotters that get out and put the miles on like the chasers do (and at that point, don't they really become chasers?), but usually they are regulated to one area, and in some cases, one or two spotting positions. I have met a lot of spotters. When I say a lot, I mean a LOT. Most of them are very nice, and mean very well. But, unlike most chasers, they could really care less about storms until they get activated to go out. Other than the brief spotter class they had, they don't usually get any further education on them, either formally or on there own.

These are from my own experiences with spotters over very many years. It's not a slam on them, just that most of them just are not THAT gung ho about it as most chaser are.

Certainly there are some spotters that are, and are very knowledgeable and get out every chance they get. And there are certainly a few chasers that don't know the difference between a shelf cloud and a wall cloud (and I have seen this inaccurately described on more than one chaser website).

I think pound for pound though, if you were to test 100 random chasers and 100 random spotters, you would find every time that chasers are generally more experienced and knowledgeable about not only storm feature identification (particularly when viewed from something other than the standard taught SE side), but in the overall storm process in general.
 
Wow. Talk about WAY wrong. I'd say most spotters have been spotting for MUCH longer than most chasers.

Maybe, and ten years spotting might garner you the same experience as two years chasing. What's your point?


Twister did NOT bring a big jump in the Skywarn logs. I'd say it did affect the chaser population though...

I used money from my very first tornado video (yep, I sold it) to pay for the movies the third time I went to see Twister...that's not really important to the point, it's just an interesting fact. So basically, you mean to say that all chasers after 1996 suck. I've got the numbers that can prove you wrong, and that's just me. I can get a list of names who started post-Twister who can hold their own against any storm or Rob Dale internet assault situation. Other than to slam post-Twister chasers in general, I really don't understand what that comment was about.


You spend your entire thread trying to break stereotypes and bring together two groups, and then end it with a completely unnecessary and clearly inaccurate SLAM on an entire group based on a very small percentage of net controllers...

Easy grasshopper...couple 'o things.

What I said isn't inaccurate. A spotter in a good year might get 3-4 true severe weather days a year, as opposed to a chaser who will get 10-15 or more, depending on how much he/she chases. Of course those numbers can be fudged one way or another, but you and everyone else reading this knows what I mean...and that I'm right. It's not a slam, it's a fact. It's like saying Gary England isn't light years ahead of you in experience in front of the camera. Experience is gold, and it reigns, in this field as well as any. And when the net controllers themselves are the ones coining phrases like "SLC" to make fun of crap reports (scary-looking cloud) that tells me that even they are aware of the true lack of knowledge or experience in many members of their own rank. Oh and let's not forget, spotters are trained to report *what they are seeing* period. Put the average spotter next to the average chaser and see who can predict the next move of the storm, not just understand what they are seeing in current time (ya like the HAM reference there?) I'm not slamming spotters or you here...I'm merely stating how significant EXPERIENCE is. Seems it's kinda lost on some people.

Secondly, like I told you across town on WX-CHASE last week, it's good to ruffle feathers and shake it up a bit...keep the idea fresh in the many minds of the storm world. I'm not a HAM, and I don't wanna be. I'm out there to chase and document. But when I see these guys like the tool in Graham County, KS making comments like he did last year after he had one bad day with chasers (May 22), it makes me want to at least try to bridge the gap. I had more negative responses from the spotter side of the issue than positive, which tells me there are more than a few on that side of the fence who like things the way they are.

Don't try and call me out because I stated the obvious. Go after the ones who've criticized this effort or otherwise debunked it.
 
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David hit it on the head. I fill both roles. As part of my local emrgency service (DEM) I am required to spot for the city and have done so for 7 years now. Ofcourse I have also been a certified spotter way before I joined AES. I also chase when the city is not threatened and have done so for 23 years.

In the 7 years I have been on active wx watch for the city I have seen zero tornados and only a few funnels. A total of 29 wx watches where we wre actually activated and the EOC opened. We are assigned a certain location and do not move unless large hail or a tornado threaten our safety. Many times I cant even see the updraft region. My job is to report what is happening where I am. Other spotters cover other areas.

In those same 7 years chasing I have seen close to 100 tornados. Seen multiple hundreds of storms. many from birth to disappation.

You tell me where the most experience and most knowledge will reside.
 
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