CHASER HAMS & SPOTTERS NOT INVOLVED IN FORMAL SKYWARN NETS

[Mike Peregrine]

Yeah - this topic was covered in depth in this thread.

There have been issues with both the nets and some NWS offices not accepting reports. IMO, Spotter Network alleviates or addresses most of the concerns floating around out there, though. It's all cool as long as a person is at least making some kind of attempt to contribute -

 

[Greg Higgins]

Greg - while what you say is true, you're missing the fact that outsider reports can be completely ignored by some ham nets because they don't know you.

Don't think I'm missing that point, I acknowledge that some nets do ignore outsiders. I beleive that in most cases it goes back to the fact that the net is in RACES mode and that is the reason why the person is ignored. And then again, there are some NCS that could stand to retire...........

but "every Skywarn net lets every ham report pass" is not.

Did I say that???

I don't understand what your grandfather said :> But it's certainly something worth discussing.

Something that should probably be discussed outside of the forum!


Greg Higgins

 

[Greg Higgins]

Know I'm getting older (notice, NOT old!) as I had a momentary lapse concerning that thread; some good points were made.

Greg Higgins

 

[rdale]

I beleive that in most cases it goes back to the fact that the net is in RACES mode and that is the reason why the person is ignored.

No, it's from the fact that the net control station doesn't know the person reporting. It has nothing to do with RACES mode. I've only heard that occurring in Dallas.

 

[Greg Higgins]

No, it's from the fact that the net control station doesn't know the person reporting. It has nothing to do with RACES mode. I've only heard that occurring in Dallas.

I've had the oppurtunity to travel all over the country (not always while chasing!) and listen / participate in weather nets (as I'm sure many of you do) and nets are run differently based on t he needs of the locale. I have heard many RACES nets that do not permit non-RACES folks. California and northern Missouri come to mind.

Greg Higgins

 

[rdale]

How many Skywarn nets activate in California :> ? Don't confuse RACES and Skywarn. The issue here is reports from non-local chaser being rejected by Skywarn nets. Nothing to do with RACES.

 

[Greg Higgins]

More confusion I see.

I am not confusing RACES with SkyWarn. SkyWarn is a program of the NWS (see my previous post) and RACES was created as part of Federal Law (Part 97) that local governmental officials may choose to use in time of perceived danger to their community.

The original message from Shane had to deal with chasers who are amateur radio operators trying to pass information on a SkyWarn net and then being ignored, denied or whatever. My point is that a large majority of SkyWarn nets that utilize amateur radio nets are operated under RACES which must operate under local and / or state laws.

Why RACES? Probably (my opinion and observation) is that when the WCM briefs an emergency manager, county judge or other public official, they in turn use their governmental power to activate the amateur radio operators under RACES. RACES can only be activate by a governmental official. There are some legal considerations that come into play by using RACES also. In California, the governmental agency that activates RACES is legally responsible for the welfare and liability of those RACES members that are activated. If that person should be drinking, has a wreck and injuries someone, then the governmental agency is liable. This information is available on the California RACES website. This question has been raised here in Tarrant County in years past and their thought is the exact opposite. Only when something bad happens and someone brings litigation against the individual, RACES or the agency will their be an answer in this area. And once again, RACES is operated differently in each city, county or state which makes it hard to understand.

Greg Higgins

 

[David Drummond]

My point is that a large majority of SkyWarn nets that utilize amateur radio nets are operated under RACES which must operate under local and / or state laws.

I have chased under just about every SKYWARN net in the plains. At least in that area a large majority are NOT RACES operated. If they are, they aren't identifying on the air as being such.

 

[Greg Higgins]

And for SkyWarn, that IS a good thing!

Greg HIggins

 

[rdale]

My point is that a large majority of SkyWarn nets that utilize amateur radio nets are operated under RACES which must operate under local and / or state laws.

Absolutely not... I've worked nearly a dozen nets, and participated in probably 75-100 over the years, and not one had anything to do with RACES. His reports were not rejected because of the RACES issue, they were rejected because they didn't know him.

WCM's don't "notify" a county official to activate a net. Most are automatic - when a watch is issued, the net is activated in a low-key fashion, and when storms develop or a warning is issued they are in full mode.

 

[Eric Treece]

While I don't dispute Gregs credentials in storm identification, I have witnessed my fair share of sherriffnadoes too. I didn't notice this mentioned as I quickly glanced thru this thread, but seems to me alot of the people partaking in the nets panic at the first sign of wind. I think it was the May 10,2005 storm near Grand Is I stood next to a fire fighter and gustnadoes were popping up all over and he is calling in tornadoes. I kept telling him that they weren't tornadoes but he ignored and continued to report tornadoes. While I understand that some people might be gun shy and report on the first sign of a spin up, doesn't the "cry wolf" syndrome apply here anymore? I sure as heck know the difference between a tornado and a gustnado.........why in the heck wouldn't someone want my report? WXORAT formerly KC0JEK..........

 

[Danny Neal]

WCM's don't "notify" a county official to activate a net. Most are automatic - when a watch is issued, the net is activated in a low-key fashion, and when storms develop or a warning is issued they are in full mode.

This is absolutely true......I have been a part of the Pittsburg county, Oklahoma net in 2000, the Pratt county, Kansas net in 2001, and numerous Northern IL nets and none of which identified themselves as RACES. Dupage County, IL EOC is a restricted net, but the one most commonly around the LOT area is run by WX9LOT and as far as I know will take any spotters. I guess our storm frequency isn't nearly as volatile as the southern Plains as the net is activated anywhere between 10-15 times a year.

 

[Greg Higgins]

Absolutely not... I've worked nearly a dozen nets, and participated in probably 75-100 over the years, and not one had anything to do with RACES. His reports were not rejected because of the RACES issue, they were rejected because they didn't know him.

And I can say the came thing with the caveat that the net operated under RACES. Two different geographical areas, two different methods to accomplish a goal. Neither is right or wrong. It's what works for that particular community.

This thread has grown branches and deviated from the original post I made which was to offer the background and reason of how some nets operate. Shane made the comment that "he did not understand how nets operate".

Maybe I have confused the topic as well as I forwarded my point of view as to how the radio ops at my particular NWSO take reports. Shane wants to make changes that effect amateur radio nets. As many have stated, some NCS do not want to take reports from those they are unfamiliar with. Other NCS can not accept reports due to the fact that they are operating under RACES. Instead of forcing the issue, use one of the many other methods to communicate with the NWS. As much as we want this to be a perfect world, it will never happen but we can work together towards the same goal so that the end result is achieved.

WCM's don't "notify" a county official to activate a net.

Rob,
NO WHERE did I say that a WCM notifies ANYONE to activate a net! Part of the problem thus exposed! My statement was "As part of an anticipated severe weather event, the NWS WCM (or other NWS staff) would notify and brief the local Emergency Managers in the NWS CWA". What I was not clear about was that the WCM briefs these officials on the weather event itself. It is the responsibility of the government official, if they so decide, to activate a net, using RACES if that is part of their procedure.

Most are automatic - when a watch is issued, the net is activated in a low-key fashion, and when storms develop or a warning is issued they are in full mode.

While this may be true, it is not the only way that nets are activated and no two areas of the country are the same. There are no absolutes.

Another thought is that some nets operating in the RACES mode only have an opening and closing statement stating they are operating under RACES as authorized by Part 97. Some also change the automatic repeater ID to append the callsign with a "R" (to indicate RACES) or just a "R" instead of a callsign to indicate the repeater (and thus the frequency) is in RACES mode.

Now I have a better understanding why Benjamin Franklin and our forefathers spent so much time in debate and discussion!

Greg Higgins

 

[rdale]

All you need to do is drop the RACES. Shane's reports were not second-guessed because of RACES. End of story. The issue is not RACES nets vs non-RACES nets. The issue is trying to get all Skywarn nets to accept reports from "reliable" chasers. It may not be do-able. But the RACES discussion just adds confusion. VERY very few nets are RACES exclusive, so start a new thread for that :>

 

[Tim Stoecklein]

WCM's don't "notify" a county official to activate a net. Most are automatic - when a watch is issued, the net is activated in a low-key fashion, and when storms develop or a warning is issued they are in full mode.

Not true.......While I was in Michigan, GRR would often request our EC or EM to activate spotters in Mecosta County. Also, TOP would directly contact our EMD in Riley county to request net activations.

Not to detract from the original thread topic, but I think many would agree there are way too many general statements being made with regards to nets, reports, NWS offices, etc. There are a great deal of differences across the country with regards to operations, organizational structures, etc.