CHASER HAMS & SPOTTERS NOT INVOLVED IN FORMAL SKYWARN NETS

[Shane Adams]

I'm making a public request for all chasers who are HAMs and all spotters who are not associated with any formal Skywarn net to submit their name, callsign, and short bio (experience). The purpose for this is to try and establish a list of names that net controllers can pull from to confirm the legitimacy of reports when they come from parties not involved in their local nets. We all know the problems of being "shut out" by local net controllers who aren't comfortable taking reports from individuals they don't recognize. In an attempt to try and see this from both sides, I think submitting a list of active, experienced, credible names to individual NWSFOs (who will then distribute them to local net controllers) is the best approach to solving this problem in a way that will satisfy both sides.

Some have made the point already that net controllers probably won't take the time to pull from a list in the heat of battle, searching out the name/callsign, but I think it's worth a shot. I figured StormTrack would be the perfect stage to get this ball rolling, and submissions could possibly be in a sticky thread in whatever section Tim deems the most appropriate. This idea may fail, but it would be easy to implement and at least try out. If you guys will simply post your submissions, I'll deal with getting them out to the NWSFOs.

 

[Greg Higgins]

Speaking only as a radio operator at our local NWS during SkyWarn events I can tell you that the NWS radio ops will take reports from anyone. While some nets limit their reports only from their members (be it RACES, ARES, or other affilaition), SkyWarn by its' nature, crosses all of those lines and will accept any report. It should also be noted that in many instances, each radio operators will be working multiple counties and may not have time to check a "list". Something else to consider is that just because someone has developed a list does not give it creditabilty. History has shown that each NWSO has its' own structure and operates differently in regards to SkyWarn nets. Some offices staff radios with a dedicated radio team that passes the information to the mets, some mets work the radios themselves and others???

Greg Higgins

 

[Laura Hedien]

I tried joining my local RACES and found them to be somewhat standoffish.... a "good ole boy club," so I just report directly to the local NWS if something needs to be said.
But... I am game to try again....

Laura Hedien Grayslake, IL (Lake Co)
WX9LEH
Limited HAM experience, but have been chasing since '98 or so.
Chase locally around Northern IL, but also spend 3 weeks on the Plains each spring/summer.
A.S. in Meteorology from College of DuPage- 2006.
Personally owned vehicle is a 4x4 that can go anywhere. Always happy to help in whatever way I can.
Professional paramedic/firefighter for over 17 years.

 

[Shane Adams]

Speaking only as a radio operator at our local NWS during SkyWarn events I can tell you that the NWS radio ops will take reports from anyone. While some nets limit their reports only from their members (be it RACES, ARES, or other affilaition), SkyWarn by its' nature, crosses all of those lines and will accept any report. It should also be noted that in many instances, each radio operators will be working multiple counties and may not have time to check a "list". Something else to consider is that just because someone has developed a list does not give it creditabilty. History has shown that each NWSO has its' own structure and operates differently in regards to SkyWarn nets. Some offices staff radios with a dedicated radio team that passes the information to the mets, some mets work the radios themselves and others???

Greg Higgins

I honestly expect this effort to fail, but the point was that we at least tried to make it happen. If this campaign doesn't make a difference, if anything else, I (as well as all who share my opinion) will have ample ground to stand on the next time the whole "spotter/chaser" debate arises...which it will.

Seems every time someone makes a proposal, someone else comes back with reasons why it won't work. I'm beginning to think there may not be a way to meld these groups together into a working relationship, because most of the problems seem to hinge on spotter network/NWSFO protocol/procedures that are obviously not up for debate or change. If that's the case, then so be it. I'll just get a cell phone.

 

[Amos Magliocco]

I think this is a good idea. If the list were available on the internet so net controllers could search for call signs rapidly, they might buy into it (or many might at least). I understand why they trust stations they know best, but sometimes they can use all the help they can get.

Amos Magliocco
KC5VPD
12 years as amateur operator/spotter/chaser; average ~10k miles annually chasing

 

[Greg Higgins]

Interesting......my comment must not have been clear enough, so.......The understanding that has been advocated is that SkyWarn IS NOT dedicated to any organization. RACES happens to be the largest supporter of SkyWarn. By its very nature, for SkyWarn to be effective, ALL reports are accepted by the NWS.

I agree that there are some groups that think that SkyWarn is "their" program and no one can make a report unless "they" have blessed it. Ever wonder why the dedicated NWS employeess travel all over the CWA to present the yearly program to volunteer public safety agencies and interested citizens that want to make a difference for their community? Because they need the "ground truth" that only they can provide.

As I stated previously. different NWSO have different methods to receive these reports. If you have interent access, there is usually a link on the local NWS page that allows for ANYONE to submit a report. There is ALWAYS the phone, you just need to know the number to each NWSO! For our particular NWSO, we have a team of dedicated amateur radio operators that monitor VHF, UHF, HF, APRS, and (sometiems) WxSpot. We attempt to accomadate anyone. If they can tell us what frequency they will be operating on, we try to ensure that it is monitored, regardless of their affiliation.

Seems to me that the concern that you have presented could be addressed by having folks be aware of how to contact the NWSO. This could be accomplished by asking the NWSO's how they operate during a SkyWarn event and then posting the information to the web.

IMO, the "spotter / chaser debate" is invalid. There are just to many methods available to communicate with a NWSO. It is up to folks to educate themselves and share the knowledge.

Greg Higgins

 

[Greg Higgins]

I think this is a good idea. If the list were available on the internet so net controllers could search for call signs rapidly, they might buy into it (or many might at least).

Lets see, monitor and talk on several different radios, pass information to the mets, get updates from the mets to pass to the different nets, monitor radar and everything else that happens. Plus, not all offices will have internet access that can be dedicated to looking at a list. A printed copy might be a better alternative.

I understand why they trust stations they know best, but sometimes they can use all the help they can get.

AMEN!


I invite anyone that is interested to drop by a NWSO (if permitted by the NWSO) during a SkyWarn event and observe their operations. Not as easy as some think!

Greg Higgins

 

[Amos Magliocco]

Lets see, monitor and talk on several different radios, pass information to the mets, get updates from the mets to pass to the different nets, monitor radar and everything else that happens. Plus, not all offices will have internet access that can be dedicated to looking at a list. A printed copy might be a better alternative.

I think you misunderstood who I was talking about when I said "net controllers." I meant the stations running the individual nets, not the operators at the FO communicating with the various nets. I assumed Shane's idea was to provide a list of potentially useful operators for local net controllers to access when an unknown station checks into their SKYWARN session.

 

[Terry Tyler]

shane, you are right...

i am not a radio operator, but i am a well trained spotter and chaser...i can tell you of several cases where i reported severe weather to the NWS and the report apparently never got read, or took care of...i called 911 once, but i dont know how that worked out...

i do not have the spotter only phone number for the local NWS offices...what i would usually do is use my cell to call in if i was in something crazy...

i use the e-spotter program and so i think thats the problem...maybe they dont take those e-spotter reports seriously...i wouldent either...they dont know my report from adams, and anybody could write whatever the hell they wanted in there with no way of verifying who you are...

i havent really had to use it, but there were a few times in my life ive had to use it...and i dont know if it went in...i know the SPC still doesnt have that hail on their map that fell on 11/13/07...it was late, but i figured i should tell somebody anyway for statistical purposes, and i told em it was late...

anyway, heres a little information...

Terry Tyler - DE48 - 4MI N of Mantachie, MS (itawamba county) close to the lee-itawamba county line in centerville...

aint got no radio experience, but ive been chasing for a few years...

i know alot about storms and reporting weather so my reports are straight...been chasing down here for a while...i know a lot of the backroads and understand alot of the locations around here to observe storms, and ill tell you...sometimes i get in a good severe storm situation where i worry i might have to make a report...but i never really know where to take it...

if anyone wants to take a look at my site, you can see a little bit of things...i got some stuff on there, so you can see i know what im talkin about...

 

[Greg Higgins]

My mistake Amos. I was referingto Shanes statement, "to individual NWSFOs (who will then distribute them to local net controllers)".

Greg Higgins

 

[Shane Adams]

I have no clue how these nets operate, but I do know that I hear them doing "roll call" when the nets are activated...which means they're pulling callsigns/names off a list somewhere. Someone said on another list that even though the reporter may be in question, the report DOES go to the NWS, with an *attached until the source can be validated....so....if the reports go out anyway, wouldn't it be just as easy for a guy to ask ONE question and take a callsign/name and then just look it up on an organized, alphabetized list....as opposed to conducting an entire interview?

Perhaps I'm over-simplifying this, but aren't we just discussing the mere matter of identification? This solution isn't ground-breaking and shouldn't cause waves to implement. If this approach is "just impossible" to work with, I don't see a solution to prevent the wedges being driven between chasers and spotters like the guy in WaKeeney or where ever. I just get the feeling from the negative responses that maybe the other side of the fence just doesn't care.

I understand that we can all make reports if we need to, but this is just as much about smoothing the waters and alleviating some of the misunderstandings/myths that have caused these rocky relationships to develop in some areas/nets. One or two bad experiences shouldn't throw a blanket over all of us, on either side. IMO mending these bonds can only serve to further enhance the way things get reported.

On the other hand, if people wanna not get along, so be it.

 

[Greg Higgins]

Every organization does things differently, there is not (IMO) a set "standard" that is utilized to run a net. At our NWSO, we do not get (nor need or request) a list of who particapated in a net. What the mets need is "ground truth".

As for identification, it (should) not matter weather a person is a "spotter" or a "chaser". If the net is set up under RACES, then by local or state rule / law / guideline, only those who are "registered" (for lack of better word) with thier local governement agency that RACES operates under, can particapate. It has nothing to do with being a spotter / chaser. ARES on the other hand operates under a totally different framework and can (if the local group so desires) to accept reports from anyone. Other places take reports from whomever is available.

Greg Higgins

 

[Greg Higgins]

I have no clue how these nets......

Ah, the crux of so many problems. First we must educate ourselves so that we can understand and then determine if there truely is a problem. Sometimes there really is not a "problem", only other options that could be used.

Greg Higgins

 

[Michael Rogers]

I tried joining my local RACES and found them to be somewhat standoffish.... a "good ole boy club," so I just report directly to the local NWS if something needs to be said.
But... I am game to try again....

I tried joining the same RACES group as you (Lake County, IL) and found them to be just as you described. I have a hard time listening to their nets due to the amount of false reports that come in from people they actually listen to. Then, when others or myself try to give a report, we aren't taken seriously (at least it comes off that way). Although Bruce (N9VID) is a fantastic net controller when he’s running it and is very knowledgeable in severe weather.

I've been a ham radio operator for nearly 10 years now and have been a certified spotter since 1996. I don't hold any degrees in meteorology but am self taught with the help of the internet, readings from Tim Vasquez, and numerous other books. While I've been an active spotter since I received my ham radio license (mostly northern Illinois) I have only been actively chasing for about 3 years. I've done chasing in Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Indiana, and Illinois with the majority being in Illinois. I helped to start the Western Illinois University Severe Weather club a few years ago as well and was an active member up until graduation. My chasing is now limited mostly to the local area due to my job.

KB9TGV
Mundelein, IL (Lake County)

 

[David Drummond]

Ah, the crux of so many problems. First we must educate ourselves so that we can understand and then determine if there truely is a problem. Sometimes there really is not a "problem", only other options that could be used.

Greg Higgins

And the problem with that, is that in the course of a given chase day, you may chase through more than one area's SKYWARN ham net, each one operating differently than the last.

For those of us who chase a LOT, across many counties in several states, remembering how each net operates (which may change from year to year) is darn near impossible. Some are wide open, such as the MAF area or AMA or SJT, and allow any ham to report. Other areas like LBB or Dallas, don't even think of making a report on their net if your not part of their group. And all across the alley, there are variations thereof.

I personally would LOVE to be more active in HAM SKYWARN, and HAM radio in general, but many of the attitudes I have come across have just made it more difficult than it's worth to do so. I have learned calling the NWS directly to be very effective, with the exception of 2 NWSFOs I will never call again, or since I got in to local TV chasing, calling TV stations in other areas when I am there, which usually goes DIRECTLY to the ears that need it (those in the path watching) and is passed on the the NWS as well (they actually monitor TV broadcasts in some NWSFOs).