Martin Kucera
EF2
Amen to your words, Jim. Hope to see ya out there... 
-
After witnessing the continued decrease of involvement in the SpotterNetwork staff in serving SN members with troubleshooting issues recently, I have unilaterally decided to terminate the relationship between SpotterNetwork's support and Stormtrack. I have witnessed multiple users unable to receive support weeks after initiating help threads on the forum. I find this lack of response from SpotterNetwork officials disappointing and a failure to hold up their end of the agreement that was made years ago, before I took over management of this site. In my opinion, having Stormtrack users sit and wait for so long to receive help on SpotterNetwork issues on the Stormtrack forums reflects poorly not only on SpotterNetwork, but on Stormtrack and (by association) me as well. Since the issue has not been satisfactorily addressed, I no longer wish for the Stormtrack forum to be associated with SpotterNetwork.
I apologize to those who continue to have issues with the service and continue to see their issues left unaddressed. Please understand that the connection between ST and SN was put in place long before I had any say over it. But now that I am the "captain of this ship," it is within my right (nay, duty) to make adjustments as I see necessary. Ending this relationship is such an adjustment.
For those who continue to need help, I recommend navigating a web browswer to SpotterNetwork's About page, and seeking the individuals listed on that page for all further inquiries about SpotterNetwork.
From this moment forward, the SpotterNetwork sub-forum has been hidden/deleted and there will be no assurance that any SpotterNetwork issues brought up in any of Stormtrack's other sub-forums will be addressed. Do not rely on Stormtrack for help with SpotterNetwork issues.
Sincerely, Jeff D.
David Drummond
Member
I just want to clarify, it was NOT Reed Timmer that flew me a bird. I got several PMs asking that. LOL We met he and his group a little while back for the first time the day of the big Kansas bust, and they were nothing but genuinely nice guys.
Brandon Goforth
You guys all make good points, and it's unfortunate that every year we have to bring up the ethics conversation over and over again, but bottom line is that there are people out there that just don't care, and they make the roads dangerous to be on for the rest of us. I guarantee that by this time next week, there will be many reports of chasers acting like retards on the road, it always happens, and unfortunately it keeps getting worse. May 23 last year in NW OK and the NE TX panhandle was some of the worst behavior I'd ever seen from MANY chasers, not just a few...it was like the planet of the apes out there, and you talk about getting pissed off at some of the "chasers" that were out that day, it was beyond ridiculous...highways and roads totally blocked by parked cars and vans, people filming from the middle of the road (not even the side, dead center!), you name it and it was happening. It's these kinds of people that get all of the local law enforcement officers pissed off at us, and quite honestly, sometimes you can't blame them, especially in May with some of the behavior that goes on out there.
David Drummond
Member
Wonder if we will see any more of this type of stuff this year?
http://hamwx.blogspot.com/2008/05/new-tour-feature.html
http://hamwx.blogspot.com/2008/05/new-tour-feature.html
Jason Boggs
I bet we won't if softballs are falling from the sky! Maybe a good softball on the noggin would knock some sense into some of these people? hmm
David Wagener
EF2
Depending on how chaotic it gets, and when the politicians decide to take control of things...chasing is nothing like how it was when I first came in Oklahoma in '97. What may happen?
Local law enforcement implements weather hazard emergency similar to the "snow emergencies" back North and East. Those that aren't familiar...it goes Level 1 - Caution advised on roads, Level 2 - Travel strong discouraged, and Level 3 - all public roads are closed to non-essential/emergency vehicles and all violaters are subject to ticketing and arrest.
I would not put it past law makers to say, okay this dangerous storm is going on this path. We are declaring a "Level 3" weather emergency and closing down all roads to public access during that time. Access will be restricted to emergency responders, emergency management officials, military, and selected approved weather officials. These officials will probably include media and national weather service employees that will be required to provide identification to be in the area. This would essentially shut out about 90% of all storm chasers, if not more.
Good or bad, I wouldn't be shocked to see something like this. It would definitely be...say goodbye to getting with in a mile of a tornado - let alone 10.
Storm chasers point of view - It would reduce the number of eyes watching the storm to protect the public.
Law Maker point of view - It would protect people and lives, help secure areas that may be damaged by the tornado (no looting), and ensure that only "qualified" people are near the storm.
Some sort of restrictions are coming, it's just a matter of when. Feel free to thank all those that drive recklessly, hang out of winds, go overboard with their vehicles, and are just overall there for anything but public safety. I mean, even watching SpotterNetwork reports, sometimes seeing the people out there and what they "report" just make my stomach turn. Heavy rain...lots of pea size hail...no hail but lightning...and every other non-severe storm report just ruins the credibility of people out there. Anyone chasing should know the severe criteria like the back of their hand. They also should know the importance of relaying important, detail reports to the NWS...but not bog them down with non-severe reports.
The case of the chaser in TX that got arrested, one thing jumped out at me that no one really hit on. The chaser claimed to the cop that he was spotting for a certain NWS office. The spokesperson for that office, did not back the story up and tossed the guy right under the bus. Chasers need to make themselves familiar with, on a regular basis, with local NWSFO's...or that will always happen. If i'm chasing something in SW Oklahoma, and I'm submitted severe reports back to OUN through the web - I'm not going to claim I'm chasing or spotting for OUN. I'm out there for my enjoyment, but saw something noteworthy that meets the criteria and I'm going to report it in.
Chasing isn't what it use to be. The egos are bigger, the chasers are more numerous than ever, and LOEs are starting to get strained by the flood of them. The days of sitting on the side road, with a single HAM antenna on your car and a camera in hand, with the LOE pulling aside asking right off the bat where the storm is going (because he knows already who you are)....those days are gone. The days of LOEs going out to make sure the 150 chasers in their county aren't blocking their roads have arrived.
I started chasing in 96...and this is the first year where I've finally said, it's not really fun out there anymore. I've done one chase this year, the rush is great...and then you run into the flock of chasers and LOEs telling you to get out of the area. Adapt or die...chasers are at that point not in their hobbies. We need to address what we are doing, tone it back down, or law makers will do it for us.
Local law enforcement implements weather hazard emergency similar to the "snow emergencies" back North and East. Those that aren't familiar...it goes Level 1 - Caution advised on roads, Level 2 - Travel strong discouraged, and Level 3 - all public roads are closed to non-essential/emergency vehicles and all violaters are subject to ticketing and arrest.
I would not put it past law makers to say, okay this dangerous storm is going on this path. We are declaring a "Level 3" weather emergency and closing down all roads to public access during that time. Access will be restricted to emergency responders, emergency management officials, military, and selected approved weather officials. These officials will probably include media and national weather service employees that will be required to provide identification to be in the area. This would essentially shut out about 90% of all storm chasers, if not more.
Good or bad, I wouldn't be shocked to see something like this. It would definitely be...say goodbye to getting with in a mile of a tornado - let alone 10.
Storm chasers point of view - It would reduce the number of eyes watching the storm to protect the public.
Law Maker point of view - It would protect people and lives, help secure areas that may be damaged by the tornado (no looting), and ensure that only "qualified" people are near the storm.
Some sort of restrictions are coming, it's just a matter of when. Feel free to thank all those that drive recklessly, hang out of winds, go overboard with their vehicles, and are just overall there for anything but public safety. I mean, even watching SpotterNetwork reports, sometimes seeing the people out there and what they "report" just make my stomach turn. Heavy rain...lots of pea size hail...no hail but lightning...and every other non-severe storm report just ruins the credibility of people out there. Anyone chasing should know the severe criteria like the back of their hand. They also should know the importance of relaying important, detail reports to the NWS...but not bog them down with non-severe reports.
The case of the chaser in TX that got arrested, one thing jumped out at me that no one really hit on. The chaser claimed to the cop that he was spotting for a certain NWS office. The spokesperson for that office, did not back the story up and tossed the guy right under the bus. Chasers need to make themselves familiar with, on a regular basis, with local NWSFO's...or that will always happen. If i'm chasing something in SW Oklahoma, and I'm submitted severe reports back to OUN through the web - I'm not going to claim I'm chasing or spotting for OUN. I'm out there for my enjoyment, but saw something noteworthy that meets the criteria and I'm going to report it in.
Chasing isn't what it use to be. The egos are bigger, the chasers are more numerous than ever, and LOEs are starting to get strained by the flood of them. The days of sitting on the side road, with a single HAM antenna on your car and a camera in hand, with the LOE pulling aside asking right off the bat where the storm is going (because he knows already who you are)....those days are gone. The days of LOEs going out to make sure the 150 chasers in their county aren't blocking their roads have arrived.
I started chasing in 96...and this is the first year where I've finally said, it's not really fun out there anymore. I've done one chase this year, the rush is great...and then you run into the flock of chasers and LOEs telling you to get out of the area. Adapt or die...chasers are at that point not in their hobbies. We need to address what we are doing, tone it back down, or law makers will do it for us.
Michael Ratliff
EF1
Boo frickin who! Lets just get out there and chase. Yall sound like a bunch of highschool girls bathroom conversation makes me want to puke. Look at this guy hanging out his window...well did you see this guy blah blah seriously lets just make sure we take care of ourselves. Try this for once YOU worry about you, and I will worry about me ! Oh and let the softballs fall
Jason Boggs
Michael, do you not think this is an important topic to worry about? Sure, we need to worry about ourselves, but when chasers act like fools, a lot of folks (the general public, LEO's etc...) put us in that same category. I sure don't want a few bad apples to spoil my image of being a chaser, do you? We need to call out the idiots that hang out windows and stand in the road, because it does affect us whether we want it to or not.
When someone gets killed because a chaser acted like a knucklehead, trust me, we will all have to pay the piper. This kind of stuff needs to be talked about and dealt with because it is becoming a terrible epidemic in the chasing world.
rdale
EF5
It would be impossible to enforce, let alone declare in the timeframe needed to notify the public, so nothing to worry about.
It won't happen.
No, it really isn't "just" when. We've had countless threads since the 90's, all saying "Yahoos will change the future of chasing, we'll all have to shut down, government regulations are coming." 15 years later, and chasing is still going just fine with the yahoos and without government rules...
Uhhh, no. If there's non-severe hail in a storm that spotters are on and warnings have been issued for - I want to know it. Nothing is getting bogged down. This isn't the same as a ham net where there is only one frequency to talk on.
You read the wrong story then, because he was credited by the NWS office with sending in reports on that storm.
Shane Adams
Wonder if we will see any more of this type of stuff this year?
http://hamwx.blogspot.com/2008/05/new-tour-feature.html
I'd be lying if I said I haven't done this myself a few times, but both times I was shooting a tornado
rdale
EF5
but both times I was shooting a tornado
...and you were on the other side, driving with your feet and cruise control
Warren Faidley
Supporter
I doubt chasing will ever be regulated on a national level, but there have been moves to regulate it on a state level. An Oklahoma legislator explored this several yeas ago.
On the local level, as we have seen, the authorities can use any number of laws to limit chasing; from obstructing traffic, endangerment, interfering with law enforcement or fire officials, reckless driving, etc. Just last week when I was chasing east of Hobbs, a call came over the scanner of a "white news truck driving erratically." The LEO's were too busy spotting, but there was a conversation on a closed side frequency. Now a bug is planted in their brains.
Local or state jurisdictions could easily pass a law, or laws, forbidding the pursuit of severe weather for any number of justifications. The USFS has done this to some degree by declaring any area near a working fire as closed, even if there are no fire lines posted. I have run into this recently -- as every individual authority interprets it there own way. It would be quite easy, for example, to declare a specific radius near a storm as a "hazard zone." It would be almost impossible to enforce, but if you were the lone guy or gal busted, that would suck. Or worse, if such a law was enacted in a popular chase area, like Oklahoma City, it would cause even more headaches. The bottom line is bad publicity. Once chasing is seem as a "thrill-seeking event" only -- then I guarantee you things will change. They already are.
I see this scenario occurring:
A tour group, group of chasers or a big TV production ends up getting killed, or killing others. The media goes nuts. Bill O’Reilly, Geraldo and others run with the story. Then chasing is under the microscope. Every local LEO will now be watching closely and chasing will be changed forever. If a child is killed, a parent might start a "Laura's Law" type action. Truth is stranger than fiction. There are numerous examples of seemingly "nothing" events leading to "explosive" coverage and change.
There is an almost exact parallel I have used of the "Into Thin Air" tragedy that occurred on Mt. Everest (1996) to chasing now days. Everyone knew climbing was dangerous before the event -- but an aggressive guide made serious mistakes and eight people died. Afterwards, climbing regulations and access became more difficult.
W.
PS: It was not me who flipped off Jason.....lol
On the local level, as we have seen, the authorities can use any number of laws to limit chasing; from obstructing traffic, endangerment, interfering with law enforcement or fire officials, reckless driving, etc. Just last week when I was chasing east of Hobbs, a call came over the scanner of a "white news truck driving erratically." The LEO's were too busy spotting, but there was a conversation on a closed side frequency. Now a bug is planted in their brains.
Local or state jurisdictions could easily pass a law, or laws, forbidding the pursuit of severe weather for any number of justifications. The USFS has done this to some degree by declaring any area near a working fire as closed, even if there are no fire lines posted. I have run into this recently -- as every individual authority interprets it there own way. It would be quite easy, for example, to declare a specific radius near a storm as a "hazard zone." It would be almost impossible to enforce, but if you were the lone guy or gal busted, that would suck. Or worse, if such a law was enacted in a popular chase area, like Oklahoma City, it would cause even more headaches. The bottom line is bad publicity. Once chasing is seem as a "thrill-seeking event" only -- then I guarantee you things will change. They already are.
I see this scenario occurring:
A tour group, group of chasers or a big TV production ends up getting killed, or killing others. The media goes nuts. Bill O’Reilly, Geraldo and others run with the story. Then chasing is under the microscope. Every local LEO will now be watching closely and chasing will be changed forever. If a child is killed, a parent might start a "Laura's Law" type action. Truth is stranger than fiction. There are numerous examples of seemingly "nothing" events leading to "explosive" coverage and change.
There is an almost exact parallel I have used of the "Into Thin Air" tragedy that occurred on Mt. Everest (1996) to chasing now days. Everyone knew climbing was dangerous before the event -- but an aggressive guide made serious mistakes and eight people died. Afterwards, climbing regulations and access became more difficult.
W.
PS: It was not me who flipped off Jason.....lol
Mike Peregrine
EF5
I'm glad this thread shows up every year just because it reminds me not to be a chasetard during peak weekends. We ALL do stupid things from time to time, and I will do something stupid again. Someone will take a picture of me doing something stupid and will post it on their website. Then I will be privileged to watch another flame-war about Peregrine the chasetard. While I'm waiting for that beautiful moment, I'm going to just do the best I can to pull off the road, not mow anyone down, and enjoy the sky. (Just incidentally, I have video of some people posting to this thread right now while they were being stupid ... so yeah, happens to all of us.)
Oh yeah ... and the better you learn to target, the less you have to drive like a chasetard.
Oh yeah ... and the better you learn to target, the less you have to drive like a chasetard.
Mike Hollingshead
Chaser regulation talk in two threads already. It must be 2008.
As for Mt. Everest. Yeah, looks like more people than ever are climbing the thing now. Almost seems like the regulation is to be crippled to some level too! Or really old. And how that's a parallel to chasing, I don't know. In a foreign country, one location....and oh yeah, about 1000 times more dangerous.
As for Mt. Everest. Yeah, looks like more people than ever are climbing the thing now. Almost seems like the regulation is to be crippled to some level too! Or really old. And how that's a parallel to chasing, I don't know. In a foreign country, one location....and oh yeah, about 1000 times more dangerous.
David Wagener
EF2
This was the story:
http://www.oaoa.com/news/barnes_16842___article.html/weather_crane.html
I guess it depends on your perspective...
>>
Hector Guerrero, meteorologist for the National Weather Service in San Angelo, said Barnes is not affiliated with the weather service but does report storms.
"We have normal spotters, but sometimes the storm chasers will provide storm reports for us," Guerrero said. "Our spotters are firemen and law enforcement."
<<
What I took from it...storm chasers are too busy getting their thrill, that they forget to report what they are seeing and therefore fail to do the number thing they always use as their number one defense - help protect the public. Then there is the point Guerrero made that he defined their spotters as local emergency officials - not the chasers who no tons more about what is going on than the typical fireman or LOE.
Rob while I don't disagree with you at all, like Warren said it's just going to take one event and then the "doomsday" scenerios will start. Much of the snow emergency areas are impossible to enforce now, but if you are the one person caught - then your day is ruined.
I should have excluded my hail comment from the SN point - especially considering the hail research project that NSSL has running. I'll stand by the other retarded comments that people make.
