5/19 Chaser Convergence

Safety First

I typically read and post very little as you will note in the amount of posts I have written in the years I've been a member of ST but I feel it important for me to chime in on this particular thread.

Over twenty years ago I photographed my first F4 tornado in Payne County, Oklahoma, and since then I've captured a few more in my day but my focus has always been on the publics safety and not necessarily the imagery, adrenalin or the rush but there is that as well when I've gone out to photograph or videotape a storm. It has been, particularly the last five years, emergency management, safeguarding people, and depending on people such as yourself to provide me with valuable information.

What I see with this thread are two mindsets - maybe three but I'll focus on the two.
1) you have the chaser willing to get the photograph at any cost; this should scare us all!
2) you have the chaser who wants to photograph the tornado, get the big shot, but is unwilling to compromise the publics safety.
3) and you have the chaser/scientist - he may fall into category one or two.

Breaking it down I think we should be more focused, as some of you are quite frankly, and look strictly at safety - yours and the publics. The videos I've seen, the recklessness, the disrespect for life (for yourself and the general public) should be appalling to each and everyone of us that view the video no matter who was driving. The events that have unfolded that I have read, seen, and watched on video the past two weeks in Oklahoma makes me shutter to think there has not been a death(s) caused by such carelessness.

I am responsible for the safety of seventy-five souls when I'm at the office and it is my number one priority during a severe weather event. Whether you are a chaser, scientist or someone out just interested in the 'big photo' I along with thousands of other people depend on the communication we receive from each of you in the field providing us with the video, photograph's and first warnings. God forbid the image shown on SH33 a traffic accident would have occurred blocking traffic and that storm dropped a large cone; imagine the carnage and death that would have occurred on that strip of road.

I know 'corporate' money, big money, is likely involved with some of the incidents we're seeing and pushing folks to make decisions hopefully they wouldn't normally make but everyone involved should stop for a moment and reevaluate why they are out trying to get the 'big shot'. No shot, no image, in my opinion, is worth your life, my life, the lives of the family going down the road next to you, etc.

I guess my point is your life on the road is perhaps the most important one to me (and to anyone else reading this) because you may be my life link in receiving valuable information that may save my life.

No charge...
 
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SOLUTION: Raise the fines for traffic violations to triple when in proximity of a severe warned storm. This is similar to the construction zone clause in Missouri, and covers anyone in the area Locals, Chasers, and Scientist.

Construction zone where becoming a death factory for workers and motorist in Missouri until powerful legislation was passed to motivate motorist to pay attention and drive within the limits posted. If you kill a worker and are convicted you lose you license for life and pay a $10,000 fine.

The fine money could be earmarked for storm sirens or EOC upgrades. This way those who choose to break the law and get the enhanced fine are still helping communities.
 
I think we all saw the videos and have made up our minds for the most part. But what really rubs salt in the wound, is that TWC is making a large to-do about it. If you are a chaser and don't feel some media pressure here, you just haven't watched TWC the last few days. And if you haven't - it doesn't matter that much - other people have. Yes; this draws in air really fast...

Few people take notice of what we do - either on this forum or out in the field. For the most part, I get my share of 'are you a storm chaser?' when I am on a chase. People have respected what we do and appreciate that we have eyes on the skies. Some don't respect chasing, and any chance that there may be there to diss chasing - you can bet they will use what TWC has shown for all to see. Like it or not/care about it or not, we are under the gun now more than ever before. Whereas a week before - we were not.

I certainly don't want to give TWC a big sloppy kiss right about now. What they have done to get more media attention is made a spectacle of us all. In a very negative light. Whatever we now do we do under a microscope. Our driving habits will certainly be under closer scrutiny than other people. This has all been spawned and is being propagated by TWC even now - as well as YouTube. It is true that the footage TWC acquired through YouTube was taken by a chaser; but now they have picked up the ball and are running with it. The chances of you getting pulled over now have been heightened.

If you get a ticket in the next few weeks, there is a fair chance that it might have had something to do with this negative media attention. If you are a law-abiding driver that has antenna and weather equipment on the top of your vehicle, you may well be targeted. If we can start to drive more like other people - instead of acting like a 'privileged few' who are above the law - this may just die down and go away.

But not while the media is riding high on this; this may turn into a campaign to see some heads roll. For example: Sean Casey is now a target for LEO no matter what happens now. And no excuse - no matter how correct or truthful it may be - will be understood or accepted. The public may demand a pound of Sean's flesh. In the TIV - he is an easy target the next time he rolls anywhere near a storm. Sean, there is still time to make an apology. Like it or not - you have become a kind of roll model. It isn't so hard to admit if you are wrong. Even if you are not - for argument's sake - go ahead and apologize and be the role model that you have chosen to become by default.

As far as TWC is concerned, if they want to help themselves - they are biting the hand that feeds them. How many times have chasers given them solid live interviews of a chase? Lanny Dean's report in OK the other day with TWC was as pro as any news journalist I have ever heard. If you want the storm chasing community to respect TWC; then don't tread on us. If Dr Wurman doesn't have enough data this year, he has already seen and documented enough storms not to lay the blame at our feet. He may not need us; but we deserve some more respect here than we are getting now. If there weren't so many active chasers in the US; then there wouldn't be as many timely and accurate reports made to the NWS either. If the govt doesn't believe that chasers don't serve a greater purpose, they would be vastly mistaken if they weren't allowed to move uninhibited...
 
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If Dr Wurman doesn't have enough data this year, he has already seen and documented enough storms not to lay the blame at our feet. He may not need us; but we deserve some more respect here than we are getting now. If there weren't so many active chasers in the US; then there wouldn't be as many timely and accurate reports made to the NWS either. If the gov't doest believe that chasers don't serve a greater purpose, they would be vastly mistaken if they weren't allowed to move uninhibited...

Again, Dr. Wurman IS NOT VORTEX 2. He is a PI and serves on the steering committee (Howie Bluestein, Don Burgess, David Dowell, Paul Markowski, Erik Rasmussen, Yvette Richardson, and Lou Wicker -- I beat almost all of those names look very familiar to almost everyone on Stormtrack), but VORTEX 2 is much larger this just the DOWs. In addition, though we have a lot of radar observations of supercells and tornadoes, we do not have many coordinated observations. The questions that we need to ask regarding tornadogenesis, why one storm produces while another doesn't, and so forth, require much more than only radar observations. Thus, the entire reason why VORTEX 2 (with mobile mesonets, pods, StickNets, mobile sounding/balloons, photogrammetry, etc.) exists, actually.

I'll reiterated what I wrote in another thread... I really think that most of the traffic that we encountered on 5/19 was not the result of responsible chasers on Stormtrack, CFDG, etc. Not that all chasers use amateur radio or scanners, but I think it's a safe assumption to say that most chasers have some sort of antenna on their vehicle's roof, and I think it's safe to say that most chasers have cameras and/or camcorders when chasing. I saw an awful lot of folks who looked like they just packed their kids or some buddies in the car to "go check out the storm". By and large, many of the vehicles I passed were pulled off at least somewhat safely. If nothing else, going to the TWC with this is exactly what is needed to deter the locals who watch TWC and jump at the chance of leaching onto V2. I'm curious how many locals joined in because of the TWC coverage. If it's a significant portion, then putting this message on TWC may be as effective as anything else. *shrug*

On the other hand, we've actually had significant tornadic supercells in Oklahoma in May this year! Significant tornado outbreak events have been few and far between in Oklahoma in the past decade (well, since October 2001), and I fear that the beast is forever out of the bag. I've seen plenty of chaser convergence in Kansas as well, but not the miles and miles of traffic like we saw the other day.
 
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Personally; I have nothing against Dr Wurman or any of that crew. I said what I did in response to his comment on TWC. It is out there and is being repeated hourly on TWC. Media saturation means that is what the general public will trust and therefore understand to be true. I know Dr Wurman likes chasers; but the slant that followed by TWC is what concerns me. That was my point - if it was misinterpreted by my lack of writing skill. Did you see it?
 
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I would be satisfied with an admission of guilt - not excuses - from the TIV and a promise to do a better job of driving when chasing.

The other fellow ('Mike Weiss'?) - that ran the blue/red lights & siren - owned up to his mistake and promised not to do it again.
Fair enough!

I ran a siren and am rethinking even having it...but I do not run red/blues...I have all amber...but anyway....
 
Just read something on Enid news that caught my attention.

Wonder what complaint they are going to stop people on...

OHP Lt. Brad Shepherd said:
“If you’re John Doe looking to chase a storm just because you want to, by gosh we’re going to stop you,â€￾ said Shepherd. “If you’re gawking around, you can stay home and gawk around in your front yard.â€￾
.



From;
http://enidnews.com/localnews/x712216924/Storm-chasing-Its-a-mess
 
I'll repost what I posted on WX-Chase:

While I'm one of those "they should be obeying all traffic laws" guys, both the TIV and Vortex 2 have advanced scout vehicles and radio and in certain situations will utilize them to go ahead of the other vehicles and radio if it's safe to pass or not. While the TIV driver could not see over the crest of a hill, they likely had a scout vehicle on the other side of the hill radioing them that it was safe to pass.



Are you completely insane?

Having radios does not give you the right to use a lane reserved for oncoming traffic at your will!

What if somebody had pulled out of a driveway or turned around behind your little pilot car?

Pull your head out of your ass and open your eyes! It is plain to see that this type of behavior is reckless at best, and possibly fatal.

Tornadoes already kill enough people. Chasers shouldnt add to that number!
 
You cant be serious with this post. Are you saying its ok to break the law and risk people lives for some lousy video?? Are you saying "well since it is a tornado warned storm I have the right to break a couple of laws to get that shot even if it puts peoples lives in danger"?? And passing up hills on a narrow 2 lane road with no paved shoulder and hundreds of cars all over the place is much more dangerous than somebody speeding or passing a few cars on a desoltae western kansas road. There is NO justification for anybody but LEO/1st responders to have to pas in no passing zones and only when running code 3 and I will promise they will even pull to the right when coming up a blind hill.

I guess its fine for him to do it until he kills somebody then I am sure you will have plenty to say about how bad it was. Sean does owe us something. A promise not to pull that crap again. Funny hopw TWC showed chasers behaving badly but miraculously seemed to omit the TIV/Discovery guys since they are celebs and had been partnered with the DOW guys who TWC are now with.. hmmm.


You said...
"You cant be serious with this post. Are you saying its ok to break the law and risk people lives for some lousy video?? Are you saying "well since it is a tornado warned storm I have the right to break a couple of laws to get that shot even if it puts peoples lives in danger"??"

lol well did I say that? My comment is in text, there isn't much room for misinterpretation. Did I say anything about it being okay to break laws and risk peoples lives for video? What exactly did I say that even came close to insinuating anything resembling that??? Did I say "I have the right to break laws to get good video". No I didn't say anything close to that so why are you pretending like I did?
I know why you are. Because that is exactly what you are doing with Seans illegal passing. Apparently you like to cause drama and have misguided belief that people need to answer to you for their actions. You are blowing something out of proportion and twisting it into something it wasn't.
You and everybody else that replied to my post just made my point for me. You all took something that wasn't a big deal and tried to twist it into something it wasn't to make a big deal out of it. Aren't there enough things to complain about in this world that actually are a big deal so we aren't reduced to trying to make a big deal out of something that wasn't? Seriously, is there nothing more significant in your life right now than a minor traffic infraction that occured on Wednesday. Don't even give me the "he could have killed somebody speech again". He didn't kill anybody and luckily in this country you don't get prosecuted for what you could have done.

Some of you guys have lost all perspective. Nobody owes you an apology for anything unless they did something that ACTUALLY affected your life negatively in some way. Did Sean or anybody else breaking traffic laws on Wednesday affect you??? Anybody? Anybody at all. No. Can anybody come forward and say my life was negatively impacted by their actions. No you can't. So why are you owed an apology? Seriously, somebody explain why you think Sean or anybody else that might have done something wrong when out chasing owes you an apology for something that had zero impact on your life.
He broke a traffic law. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't answer to you for that. You keep stating the hypothetical "he could have killed somebody". Okay well he didn't kill anybody and even if he did he wouldn't owe random strangers on stormtrack an apology for it. Until you start apologizing to random strangers for everything you do wrong then don't expect somebody else to. What because we share the same hobby you answer to me for your mistakes out there. Get real.

There are an infinite number of things that kill people in the hypothetical. Leave the hypothetical out of this. Let's deal in reality. He didn't kill anybody. Making an illegal pass is a very far cry from killing somebody but a lot of you managed to make that connection lol. Seriously get some perspective here. If you go around getting this hung up on every thing you see that could cause trouble in the hypothetical world, then I don't even know how you have time to storm chase.

You act like this is some public court and people are accountable to you on here. For some reason I fail to grasp why anybody thinks they are OWED anything. Why does Sean or anybody else owe you anything? So do you go around and apologize to everybody for all the things you've done illegal or wrong in your life? Do you go around and apologize to random people for things you've done that could have hypothetically caused undue harm?
Of course you don't because you don't OWE random people an aplogy for something that had nothing to do with them and you shouldn't have to apologize for hypothetical situations. Until you start acting that way yourself, they you're a hypocrite for demanding others to act that way.
Some people need to get a life and quit worrying so much about what other people do and what could have been. There are plenty of bad things that ACTUALLY happen in this world to worry about that I don't need to listen to all the potential eventualities that could have come from breaking traffic laws. Sean shouldn't have passed illegally and it could have killed god knows how many people. I think we made that point about 10 pages ago. Case closed. Now we can quit riding this dead horse and find something else to complain about and demand aplogies for.

Before somebody gets all hyped up and tries to twist what I said into some warped version of what it was and say I was justifying illegal behavior, don't. I didn't justify anything. I'm simply saying that it is RICICULOUS that you expect anybody to apologize for something that doesn't involve you and it is RIDICULOUS that there is a 18 page rant about a minor traffic infraction.
And btw it was a minor traffic infraction whether you admit it or not. I don't care what hypothetical disasters you can dream up that could have been caused by this gross disregard for the law and human life. He passed in a no passing zone. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Mikey, wow I do not understand you. SEAN COULD HAVE KILLED SOMEONE. He went up a hill in the oncoming lane. If someone was driving over the hill from the other side THAT person would have driven strait into the TIV and could have been killed. He broke the law and put people at risk. He should be fined or put in jail for driving like that. He has done this before and has no excuse. Yes I am blowing this out of proportion because I DO NOT want to see somebody get killed. Just because nobody was killed does not make what he did ok.
 
I don't recall seeing any legislation granting exception to a bunch of cable show yahoos breaking laws of the road just because they're out chasing personal glory or ratings fame. We would never excuse this type of behavior from any other citizens in a hurry for what they think are "good reasons." Doing it once is possibly understandable. Doing it more than that and in an armored vehicle that could flatten another car? Then trying to defend it and explain that the rest of us should just trust his judgment? I don't think so.
 
Mikey, wow I do not understand you. SEAN COULD HAVE KILLED SOMEONE. He went up a hill in the oncoming lane. If someone was driving over the hill from the other side THAT person would have driven strait into the TIV and could have been killed. He broke the law and put people at risk. He should be fined or put in jail for driving like that. He has done this before and has no excuse. Yes I am blowing this out of proportion because I DO NOT want to see somebody get killed. Just because nobody was killed does not make what he did ok.

But he didn't.... ding, ding, ding, ding. We can all sit here and complain about it but what does that ultimately change? I understand trying to self police our community but all this seems like its about is a bunch of individuals worrying about others and pointing fingers. Worry about your own driving, drive defensively and safely and let law enforcement or the consequences take care of those that don't.
 
I'm sure OHP roadblocks are really only the beginning....I'd the OHP roadblock on 5/19 is just only the beginning and will get worse, especially in Oklahoma. As our lawmakers work behind the scenes on this issue, I'm not going to be surprised one iota if something comes out of the legislative process as well to give police power to ensure the safety of the roadways in severe weather. So for those thinking you can't legislate against chasing, anyone who got turned around east of Hennessey learned really quickly how wrong that is. Add a few lines of legislation to give police a bit more leeway in Severe Weather and you have instant nightmares for chasers.

I'm just calling a spade a spade (and speaking of Oklahoma only here), you don't need much more than media chasers and local spotters in Oklahoma to warn the public adequately in 2010. You definitely don't need more than a few chasers on top of that to serve the public interest, so anyone still under the delusion they are out there for the public good, especially in a convergence situation like 5/19, can probably just drop that. If anything, chasers made the problem much worse on 5/19 for local officials. This isn't 1979 anymore, there are plenty of media people around each storm as is in Oklahoma plus a helicopter or two. So don't be shocked when an OHP officer decides to block a main highway near a storm ruining your chase someday in the near future...because from the tone I'm getting from my friends both in law enforcement and within the OK House and also from media interviews, this won't be allowed to happen again in this manner. Don't think they can do anything? Just watch and see.
 
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