3 storm chasers killed in 2-vehicle accident near Spur, Texas

[Jake Orosi]

There's always potential liability in sense that a precedent can be established through legal victory in a potential civil suit. This has been brought up before on the site.

I don't think anyone was aware of a present case where a streaming company was successfully sued, to date, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen if a judge allowed a suit to go through the legal motions and the family, for example, was awarded damages against a company by the jury.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

If I'm not mistaken, service providers and hosts in the US are legally protected against liability for illegal content posted by end-users. So blogging services, social media outlets like Facebook, and internet forum admins don't get in trouble. I don't see why a storm chasing stream host wouldn't count as such an outfit.

The only exemption to this protection I've heard of is hosts of content that tends to be illegal by nature (like pirated works).

 

[Brian Barnes]

I even see flashing blues and reds on media chaser vehicles, which I'm pretty sure is against the law.

That's a third degree felony in some states, and a class A misdemeanor in others. Having blue anywhere on a vehicle that can be seen from the front is in most states as well. Even those blue hue headlights are, in Arkansas, several counties have written tickets for them.

I have read though a lot of these posts, and although I hardly ever post myself, I wanted to here. First and foremost - my sincere condolences to all those affected, especially family of the deceased.

I'm struggling with Dan's "could have happened to any of us" comment. It's possible. Mistakes do happen, and sometimes a stop sign might not be seen. But, it seems that Kelley did roll through more than one, whether it was a slow roll or not, it's running a stop sign. And, in the one leading to the wreck, it's my understanding that not only was there a stop sign, but there was a yellow caution sign announcing the stop ahead, as well as signs announcing the FM road ahead.

So, they did have plenty of warning, it's not as if this stop just popped out of nowhere from around a bend. But, in-general, yes running an occasional stop sign could happen to anyone, no matter how great of a driver you are. Its just that it's starting to appear that this was a bit of a habit for this guy, which is where I'm struggling. And, if future evidence shows that it was a habit, then go ahead and put me in the angry column with so many others.

That all said, I'll admit that I got a ticket a few years ago in Kansas for failure to stop at a stop sign. The kicker... I actually did stop, and had no rolling wheels, then I made a right turn. The officer that wrote me up said, and I quote, "You didn't do five mississippis". So, now I very sarcastically count out "five mississippis" very loudly when I come to a stop sign (its more of the humor of it, but I guess it's the proper thing to do as well). I was angry over that ticket (my first of any kind 15 years) and still am.

There is also some debate over if this could affect TWC or a steaming company. Warren says "no" to the streaming company, and "possibly" to TWC. I think I'll go with a "possibly" for both. But, it depends on contracts, and what is in those contracts. I don't think just wearing a logo can get a company in hot water. But, if the company "gave" him the logo to wear along with a contract of some sort then that creates an employment situation, 1099 or not, and it could lead to lawsuits. What happens past that is anyone's guess.

At the beginning of each and every tour, we conduct a safety meeting so that our customers know what to expect from me, and others. I have always identified our primary hazard as "other chasers" and have a few slides to illustrate it. I tell every customer to "watch out for chasers, because they're not watching out for you." And, no offense to other chasers, but I have had a guy once who tried to get around some cars on the shoulder by taking the ditch...and we had customers along a fence line there taking photos of a storm, he nearly hit that group. Most chasers are great people and that includes some of the most safety orientated people I have ever met (like Warren), but it only takes one and it's that one that I'm always looking out for.

I assume that people in a forum setting like StormTrack are safety cautious and orientated, because we're all here to share and to learn. Please advocate safety in chasing and everything you do. Represent storm chasing with pride and respect. I noticed on youtube a video posted from a kid who looks to be about 12-15 or so, he's very sad that his favorite chaser was just killed. No matter how long you've been chasing, keep in-mind that people (and kids) might be looking up to you. You don't want to be that guy (or gal) who lets them down with the disappointing fact that you violated a law and took a life. Very sad all around. Be safe.

-BB
StormChase.com

 

[Brett Roberts]

2:03:20 - TWC vehicle rolls a stop sign (not at 3 mph; more like 15-25 mph) going straight through a two-way stop intersection, seconds after a vehicle is seen flying by on the cross route (which has the right of way)

2:06:03 - TWC vehicle makes a right turn at a stop sign going approximately the same speed you would if you had the right of way at the intersection

Stream from Sunday (3/26/17) chase - TWC vehicle makes a right turn similar to the above onto a busy highway, again right after a vehicle whizzes by at high speed

Unfortunately, the evidence contained in these streams suggests to me that disregarding stop signs may have been a habit for this crew. I'm not aware of any other instances captured on stream where they blew a stop at 70+ mph, so it still seems quite possible that Kelley didn't see the sign at the intersection of the wreck. But, I would imagine lawyers may be examining the wealth of old footage still available on the YouTube channel to see whether it had happened before - and if so, how frequently.

I take no pleasure in pointing this out while friends and family of the TWC crew are still in mourning. I do think it's important to emphasize that, perhaps, the most relevant lesson to take from yesterday is actually quite simple: always take stop signs seriously, even in remote areas. Very few of us (myself included) are model drivers when we're under a tornadic storm, but I think disregarding stops is a special kind of recklessness that most of us refrain from in all circumstances. So I would say that this lesson applies to only a minority of chasers, but for them, I really hope it causes a permanent change in behavior.

 

[Jake Orosi]

I take no pleasure in pointing this out while friends and family of the TWC crew are still in mourning. I do think it's important to emphasize that, perhaps, the most relevant lesson to take from yesterday is actually quite simple: always take stop signs seriously, even in remote areas. Very few of us (myself included) are model drivers when we're under a tornadic storm, but I think disregarding stops is a special kind of recklessness that most of us refrain from in all circumstances. So I would say that this lesson applies to only a minority of chasers, but for them, I really hope it causes a permanent change in behavior.

Also, isn't it generally the whole point of having multiple chasers in one vehicle, that the driver can just concentrate solely on driving while the other(s) handles the sky-watching? If not, making it that way is a tremendous opportunity to upgrade your chase safety.

 

[Greg Flint]

At the very least my bet is TWC stops having chasers out in the field.

No way.

If you think about it, what TWC did after El Reno was worse. Instead of having their own team/employees out in the field to chase like Mike Bettis' team during El Reno, they used hired guns to obtain And broadcast the footage. If you don't think for a second that wasn't a corporate Decision, think Again.

To the TWC, their sponsors and mindless millions at home watching: Business is business. Other storms occurred on the panhandle yesterday, and TWC had already went on to show these storms on air. They don't seem to care Who is out there or what it takes to obtain the footage as long as they are protected legally and financially protected from an unfortunate outcome like the one that unfolded yesterday. Correct me if I'm wrong but true capitalism never involved killing innocent people though.

My dark side would love to know how many calls/texts/emails TWC received yesterday/today from Candidates looking to be next chaser on the air for them. It's obvious they will continue to to air close ups of tornados, evidenced by the footage they replayed over and over yesterday even after they knew one of their contractors had killed two others and himself.

As many of us have pointed out, there are LOTS of lessons to be learned (again). Personally, my chase partner and I had a lengthy discussion this morning about awareness and how to minimize the chances of repeating yesterday avoidable situation. Sadly, there are many factors during a chase that come up, and there are so many variables, unintended consequences are sometimes unavoidable.

This is the last post I'll make on this topic out of respect for Corey, Randall and Kelley. May each of their families eventually find peace and closure. I truly wish the best for their families and anyone else who was close to them. Love and Kindness.

 

[JamesCaruso]

While I don't necessarily disagree with much of that, I think it underscores the point that many consider something like disregarding traffic control devices or driving the wrong way on a public right-of-way as being more serious than other traffic law violations that could be argued to carry an equivalent level of risk. Unless you diligently follow ALL of the traffic laws, something like this could happen, even if you're not running stop signs, for example. Sure, someone is going to argue apples to oranges, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Many law enforcement officers will vehemently argue that speeding (even if it's only 5-10 mph over the posted limit), improper lane usage, driving too fast for conditions (water or hail on the roadway), improper lane usage, distracted driving (laptops and cell phones especially), or improper stopping or standing on the roadway, for example, are equally as dangerous. While I think most of us are good about observing traffic control devices and not driving the wrong way on public right-of-ways, for example, we're probably just about all guilty of some other risk taking behaviors on the road. These put others and ourselves at a heightened risk for a traffic collision. I know I've been guilty of speeding and distracted driving while trying to keep pace with storms, so perhaps it is cause for reflection going forward if nothing else.

Agreed. That's what I had in mind when I expressed the sentiment that it could happen to any of us. I have never blown lights or stop signs, I was referring to those other things I know we have all done that could result in equally tragic consequences.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Todd Lemery]

A fatal crash just occurred a short time ago 75 miles west of San Antonio Texas. 12 people were killled in the crash. Whew! That was close. Now everybody can go back to driving EXACTLY as they were before because now the media has a new, shiny and bigger toy to play with!

 

[joel ewing]

Joel - please read my entire comment and try not to misrepresent what I wrote. Maybe my grammar and punctuation isn't perfect, but I was implying it's "idiotic to see lives lost as a result of chasing a funnel". I never once said storm chasing is idiotic. I poured all of my emotions out on that original post, which is evident in typing "I feel" over and over. Just because you were a passenger in a car being operated by an equally wreckless driver, try not to let that cloud sound logic and reasoning of the situation here. I know that's hard, because it's hard to look in the mirror sometimes. You seem to be looking at this situation as if you were Kelley, based on your previous experiences. I get it, we've all been there. But yes; it does matter that an innocent young mans life was lost as the result of another Persons wrecklessness.

I'm not misrepresenting anything that I read of yours....you stated your position clearly. Nor does my response have anything at all to do with a joy-ride in the Nebraska countryside 50 yrs. ago with my cousin who made poor driving choices... trust me, I've been thru far worse in my life. And spare me the lecture on how "an innocent young man's life was lost as a result of another man's "wrecklessness". Straight up: Kelley's body has barely gone cold and some of you are carving him up like pigs at a feast. It's reassuring to know that I'm surrounded by guys so filled with virtue. Let me ask you something.....when you stand up and pontificate statements such as "an innocent young man's life was taken from him blah blah blah"......what's in it for YOU? Really.....what are you getting out of this? What's the point? Are you trying to convince your audience that you're such a deeply feeling, caring individual? Are some of you just using this as an exercise to BOND with one another at Kelley's expense? Every one of you has blown a stop sign in his day, and "there but for the grace of God, go I". Personally, I never dreamed that Kelley would be getting this kind of treatment so soon after his passing amongst his so-called peers. Yeah, it looks like he effe'd up and caused this to happen. But to rake him over the coals like some of you are doing just reeks of elitism, as well as a complete lack of class and dignity.

 

[Jack Fleetwood]

It's been interesting reading the posts here. I think the majority of chasers here agree with my thoughts on this accident.

On YouTube and FB, people were enamored with Kelley, not so much Randy and Kelley, but with Kelley. They're arguing about who was driving even after the DPS said Randy was buckled into the passenger seat. They don't want it to be Kelley that made a mistake.

When I first discovered chasers streaming a couple of years ago, like many others, I quickly gravitated to following Kelley. He seemed to always be on the storm, and if he wasn't, he was entertaining. His country boy charm kept people laughing. From only knowing him through the internet, I believe he was a great guy. However, it frustrates me that people are saying they normally followed the laws of the road. Many times when Randy was driving, Kelley would tell him to speed up and Randy would say that he had it floored.

On the last video they posted, they crossed over the centerline multiple times and ran at least two other stop signs. To be fair, they slowed down for those two, but they ran them. I truly believe they didn't see this one and accidentally ran it because they never slowed down. I'm also sick of people saying there should be a 4-way stop. There were at least four warnings the intersection was coming. Highway Intersection ahead, JCT 2794, the stop ahead sign, and then the stop sign. The intersection didn't sneak up on them!

I really enjoyed watching these guys and I'm sad they're gone. As others have stated here, it's a good time to reflect on how we drive. It was an accident or a mistake, either way the actions they took cost their lives and the life of another young man.

 

[Steve J]

2:03:20 - TWC vehicle rolls a stop sign (not at 3 mph; more like 15-25 mph) going straight through a two-way stop intersection, seconds after a vehicle is seen flying by on the cross route (which has the right of way)

2:06:03 - TWC vehicle makes a right turn at a stop sign going approximately the same speed you would if you had the right of way at the intersection

There also might be a stop at 2:23:20 - you can see the stop sign pass in the background. However, none of these are even in the same league as the one that follows 2 min later. If that fatal intersection was a blown stop sign at 70 mph, I think it's disingenuous for folks to say he "blew" those others because they are not remotely similar. If feels more like pushing a story instead of relaying supporting info.

By the letter of the law, you'd be hard pressed to find a single person here who doesn't roll stop signs. Seriously, full stop, every time? Behind the line/sign/crosswalk? Consider rural Texas panhandle where it's pretty easy to clear an intersection because you can often see miles in all directions. Doesn't make it right, but a lot (most?) don't come to a full stop. Stones and glass houses and such.

Then consider the intersection in question. There was no way to see all traffic in order to clear the intersection until right up on it, trees were blocking the view of the westbound traffic. They hit a dark-colored vehicle which would have been harder to see through the trees. And there seemed to be no slowing. If that was intentional, that seems like a blatant roll of the dice which runs counter to the behavior minutes prior where he had slowed down well below highway speeds before proceeding through the intersection.

Yeah, it looks like he effe'd up and caused this to happen. But to rake him over the coals like some of you are doing just reeks of elitism, as well as a complete lack of class and dignity.

Here here!

 

[Brad Dormer]

I'm extremely disappointed in how some people decided to handle this tragedy, not just here, but everywhere. I'm not really sure how to word this and I'm sure I'll get criticism, but at this point, I don't care. Just because someone screws up doesn't mean you shouldn't have any less empathy for those people/those people's families. Have you ever thought about who could be reading this? There could be family members, chase teammates, anyone, really that could've known any of the 3 of them, reading what some of the people here and in other places have posted has deeply disgusted me as well as others. My final thoughts: Yes, Kelley screwed up, as you can tell by the last seconds of the video/live stream, he's still a human and humans make mistakes, just because he ran that stop sign doesn't mean he's subhuman or something, come on guys, really? Corbin was an unfortunate victim in this case, I feel bad for his family, from what I heard Corbin was all his mother had left, I didn't know him personally but I did have great conversations with Kelley and Randy and it hit me super hard when I got home and saw 3 chasers had been involved in a triple fatality crash and saw the vehicles, I along with multiple others knew instantly who it was, I always was eager to get home and watch his live streams on severe weather days, and now, I can't do that. But eventually, everyone, including me will have to move on and learn from this incident.

 

[Brian G]

I'm really not trying to be insensitive. The loss of life is tragic no matter what the circumstances so it too pains me to discuss this incident and Kelley's chasing behavior. Someone I know from Cassville asked me about him a few weeks ago and I didn't know who he was so I looked him up. The first video I found on YouTube was labeled "Kelley Williamson Crash" and was from 2015 showing dashcam video of someone (presumably Kelley) driving on icy roads near Cassville (I'm familiar with the area and recognized the roads). I have to be honest, my first impression when watching that video was that whoever was driving was going way too fast for the conditions. And then sure enough he crashed. The video is no longer available on YouTube. My guess is that it got removed yesterday morning because it was still indexed by YouTube, but when you clicked on it you'd get the message saying the video is no longer available. It doesn't even show up on google search today which makes me think it got recently removed. Anybody else remember watching this video?

 

[Brad Dormer]

I'm really not trying to be insensitive. The loss of life is tragic no matter what the circumstances so it too pains me to discuss this incident and Kelley's chasing behavior. Someone I know from Cassville asked me about him a few weeks ago and I didn't know who he was so I looked him up. The first video I found on YouTube was labeled "Kelley Williamson Crash" and was from 2015 showing dashcam video of someone (presumably Kelley) driving on icy roads near Cassville (I'm familiar with the area and recognized the roads). I have to be honest, my first impression when watching that video was that whoever was driving was going way too fast for the conditions. And then sure enough he crashed. The video is no longer available on YouTube. My guess is that it got removed yesterday morning because it was still indexed by YouTube, but when you clicked on it you'd get the message saying the video is no longer available. It doesn't even show up on google search today which makes me think it got recently removed. Anybody else remember watching this video?

I watched that video the day of this year's incident, didn't know it was gone. That's interesting.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I'm extremely disappointed in how some people decided to handle this tragedy, not just here, but everywhere. I'm not really sure how to word this and I'm sure I'll get criticism, but at this point, I don't care. Just because someone screws up doesn't mean you shouldn't have any less empathy for those people/those people's families. Have you ever thought about who could be reading this? There could be family members, chase teammates, anyone, really that could've known any of the 3 of them, reading what some of the people here and in other places have posted has deeply disgusted me as well as others.

Personally, I can't tell anyone how to display empathy or how to parcel grief, as that's an individual choice. However, I see both sides to the varying reactions here. I'm not one, personally, to parcel out empathy, as I feel that the loss of all three individuals was extremely tragic, and I sympathize with all immediate family members and close friends of the deceased who were affected too.

That having been said, the elephant in the room surrounds driving behavior. At the very least, the facts appear to confirm that this accident was caused by what constitutes "reckless driving" behavior in most states - intentional or not. There are other accusations of purportedly similar behavior(s) on the part of the driver in past encounters, including a few that were on the live stream Tuesday, among others. I never saw any of that first-hand, as I only knew the driver by proxy via social media, and a few very brief encounters in the field. If that's the case, then there are other wide-reaching behaviors here that merit some deprecation via civil discourse, or at the very least will be discussed in the future and open to public censure. I can certainly see why this evokes anger in some, not that I'm personally arguing that it's deserving of "less empathy," but I'll leave it at that.

 

[Steve J]

Anybody else remember watching this video?

Yep, snow covered roads. He crested a hill and just as he got over the top, there was someone stopped in his lane. He tried changing lanes, I believe the back end of his vehicle must have slid and caught the stopped truck so it spun Kelley back around so the camera faced the driver's door as he slid toward the ditch.

I grew up in the midwest, several hours north of Cassville where we dealt quite a bit more winter weather than SW MO. It didn't strike me that he was driving too fast as much as it did that the other guy had chosen a really bad place to stop. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯‎