2013-05-31 EVENT: KS, OK, MO, IL

[Marcus Diaz]

Que pensez-vous d'un abri béton ou acier dans la maison? Bien sur c'est plus cher mais les vies sont précieuses.

Translated to: What do you think of a concrete or steel shelter in the house? Of course it is more expensive but lives are precious.

I've noticed rest stops on the highway have these above ground safe rooms that are reinforced concrete and big heavy steel doors. I'm not sure what they're rated for, but for people of OK where soil is a big problem, this could be a good solution. Hell even build one big enough to hold several people in the neighborhood. This would surely be a much better solution than risking driving away and getting stuck in traffic.

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

maybe HOA's should be required by law to build large enough storm shelters for their subdivisions. (Wonder how many HOA's would cease to exist then lol).

 

[Brian Hartmann]

The soil is a large part of it. Even simple slab foundations can be at risk of soil contraction here. That is one reason that foundation leveling is such a big industry here. Also, depending upon where you are, rock strata can also impede digging. We are currently investing in a storm shelter and all of the underground foundation companies have had trouble in Bartlesville with the limestone that lies right below the surface. We are going with an above ground safe room.

 

[Greg Flint]

Bottom line here is this: Unless your designated shelter or home is in the circulation, YOU HAVE NO GOOD REASON BEING THERE. Plain and simple.

Someone mentioned safety of an armored vehicle, but the roof of D3 was torn off yesterday, and veteran meteorologists/chasers vehicles were thrown hundreds of yards. YOUR NOT SAFE IN ANY VEHICLE NO MATTER HOW MANY MODS YOU'VE MADE.

Good point also whomever said CHASERS SHOULD NOT BE CHASING IN METRO AREAS.

HOW DARE SOME OF YOU chasers say that those who live in the area should not leave their home if its not well built? Especially while some of you are not even from the same state but instead drove many miles TO THEIR city/town to cruise around in your vehicle snapping video and pictures. Unreal.

 

[Jacob Ferden]

HOW DARE SOME OF YOU chasers say that those who live in the area should not leave their home if its not well built?.

They are saying it because it has been proven time and again that cars are death traps if they are hit by a tornado. Unlike you, I suspect, I do live in the Oklahoma City metro area. I chose not to leave Norman yesterday because the storm was moving directly towards the city, and I did not want to be involved in that mess.

Some of the things I saw in Norman as the tornado approached OKC were nothing short of incredible...huge traffic jams coming south, people driving on the wrong side of the road...people were in full-out panic mode. Later, I saw the aerial footage of the interstates on the south side of Oklahoma City, with miles-long traffic backups. If a violent tornado had managed to sustain itself and crossed one or more of those traffic jams, we would be talking about dozens, if not hundreds, of fatalities.

The reality is that in a large metro area, the roads are not equipped to deal with a sudden exodus of people like that. And a car gets you nowhere if you're not moving.

I've been chasing for five years, and I have encountered the aftermath of tornadoes on more then one occasion. If I had to choose between being hit by a tornado in a poorly built home and being hit by a tornado in my car, I'm taking the home. If I had to choose between being hit by a tornado in my car or jumping in the ditch, I'm jumping in the ditch.

They're death traps, plain and simple.

 

[Tom Stefanac]

They are saying it because it has been proven time and again that cars are death traps if they are hit by a tornado. Unlike you, I suspect, I do live in the Oklahoma City metro area. I chose not to leave Norman yesterday because the storm was moving directly towards the city, and I did not want to be involved in that mess.

Some of the things I saw in Norman as the tornado approached OKC were nothing short of incredible...huge traffic jams coming south, people driving on the wrong side of the road...people were in full-out panic mode. Later, I saw the aerial footage of the interstates on the south side of Oklahoma City, with miles-long traffic backups. If a violent tornado had managed to sustain itself and crossed one or more of those traffic jams, we would be talking about dozens, if not hundreds, of fatalities.

The reality is that in a large metro area, the roads are not equipped to deal with a sudden exodus of people like that. And a car gets you nowhere if you're not moving.

I've been chasing for five years, and I have encountered the aftermath of tornadoes on more then one occasion. If I had to choose between being hit by a tornado in a poorly built home and being hit by a tornado in my car, I'm taking the home. If I had to choose between being hit by a tornado in my car or jumping in the ditch, I'm jumping in the ditch.

They're death traps, plain and simple.

As a side note, the number of vehicle related fatalities globally, and especially in developed nations and North America has steadily declined since the 1960's as newer safety technology and practices have been introduced. In the past most vehicle rollovers and highway/freeway collisions would often result in serious injury and/or death, but today most relative high speed collision don't result in death and often injuries are limited to maybe broken bones and whiplash. This is probably part of the reason why it seems more people survive impacts from tornadoes in cars than they seem to have in the past, despite there being more traffic on the road today than there was in the 1970's.

So given yesterdays situation more people were not killed thanks to better built cars than there may have been. Now that said, obviously it was not as large or as violent of a tornado as it could have been and cars are still one of the worst places to be when struck by a tornado, and if you get any considerable height or speed then even the best built vehicle will probably not save your life.

 

[Jeff Duda]

I think Jacob's underlying message was that structures are almost always the better alternative to cars, and it's much easier for 500,000 people to shelter in their own homes or local structures than for those people to try to escape in 125,000 vehicles along 2 4-lane, controlled access roads.

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

Someone mentioned safety of an armored vehicle, but the roof of D3 was torn off yesterday, and veteran meteorologists/chasers vehicles were thrown hundreds of yards. YOUR NOT SAFE IN ANY VEHICLE NO MATTER HOW MANY MODS YOU'VE MADE.

let's maintain accuracy please, it was not the roof of the Dominator 3 that was torn off, it was just the hood that got ripped off. Just clarifying to keep that from evolving into something it was not.

 

[Andy Wehrle]

If a violent tornado had managed to sustain itself and crossed one or more of those traffic jams, we would be talking about dozens, if not hundreds, of fatalities.

So...the question on my mind is...why didn't it? Why the rapid transition to HP waterfalls after the first tornadic cycle near El Reno? It was expected that conditions Friday were going to be prime for violent, long-track tornadoes like the Moore one. Yesterday was like the meteorological equivalent of being let off with a warning.

 

[Tim Supinie]

So...the question on my mind is...why didn't it? Why the rapid transition to HP waterfalls after the first tornadic cycle near El Reno? It was expected that conditions Friday were going to be prime for violent, long-track tornadoes like the Moore one. Yesterday was like the meteorological equivalent of being let off with a warning.

I'll reply to this because it's the only part of the thread I can respond to without getting dragged into a stupid internet argument.

From what I was watching on the radar yesterday, storms kept firing over the same real estate where very first supercell developed. All the subsequent storms ran into the rear of the first (El Reno?) storm and made it gust out. They didn't completely cut the storm off, but it became very outflow-dominant after its first tornado and never looked as impressive as it did near El Reno again. This developing convection kept happening overnight, even when the surface boundary had sagged south of the OKC metro, which is why there were such high rainfall totals overnight.

As to why stuff kept firing in the same area, I'm not sure. There was an area of very strong convergence on the Oklahoma Mesonet during the afternoon that was correlated with that area of developing convection, but that doesn't seem to explain why it kept happening overnight, after the surface convergence was way off to the south.

 

[Lee Smith-Whaley]

The following is one example of someone extremely lucky to have survived after trying to bail south yesterday. Simply put Mike Morgan made a very bold, and dangerous statement on air that should not have been, especially since it was known that traffic was backed up most of the day. I agree that several mistakes were made by many people yesterday, but hopefully a few lessons were learned, and we won't be seeing very many repeats.

they said it was coming straight east down i40 and we fled south. It hit us when it made a hard right on sw 156 and may. my two dogs were knocked out of my truck when someone hit me going at elast 5o mph. I am trying hard to be strong but its getting the best of me. No one stopped to help and there were hundreds of cars speeding past. The person that knocked me in to the ditch kept on going. My sister stopped when she saw me and I had to leave a truck two family members and my important stuff to take with me in case of a tornado in my car. And then we got hit by the funnel. Prayed and held tight. We had 5 dogs in her car and a bird in a cage. It was a bad night. I'm not gonna sleep till I find my furry babies dead or alive.

 

[Adam Atkins]

As to why stuff kept firing in the same area, I'm not sure. There was an area of very strong convergence on the Oklahoma Mesonet during the afternoon that was correlated with that area of developing convection, but that doesn't seem to explain why it kept happening overnight, after the surface convergence was way off to the south.

I believe the E-W oriented outflow boundary had drifted north during the day and draped itself right along I-40 through the south OKC metro area. Extremely high PW values and high CAPE were realized when the atmosphere was uncorked. There were probably three individual mesocyclones and supercells in that massive HP cluster along the OFB.

 

[STexan]

OK, we can Monday morning quarterback now. We know what happened, but we ALSO know what might just as easily have happened in the next identical setup. My question is what SHOULD have been said on TV/radio, what SHOULD LE have done to "manage" traffic, what SHOULD the typical resident living S of 40 and W of 35 have done who did not have a reliable shelter.

Tornadoes and severe storms are going to go where they are going to go and an exact projected path is never known especially in a situation like Friday, a "mass exodus" is SURE to lead to massive stopped traffic jams, I think we all agree you are safer to be in a home hit by a tornado and RFD winds than an automobile. But all that said, we still have to deal with human nature to flee approaching danger. I contend there was no right answer and how Friday should have been handled, but OKC DID dodge a bullet and will live to have another go at it again next spring at some point. Had a long-lived large wedge sustained itself from El Reno to Moore (just as easily could have occurred), this thread context and tone would be much different.

 

[Greg Flint]

let's maintain accuracy please, it was not the roof of the Dominator 3 that was torn off, it was just the hood that got ripped off. Just clarifying to keep that from evolving into something it was not.

Thank you for clarifying. I obtained my information from a television media report, which I thought was accurate.

 

[Andy Wehrle]

The following is one example of someone extremely lucky to have survived after trying to bail south yesterday. Simply put Mike Morgan made a very bold, and dangerous statement on air that should not have been, especially since it was known that traffic was backed up most of the day. I agree that several mistakes were made by many people yesterday, but hopefully a few lessons were learned, and we won't be seeing very many repeats.

I was watching KFOR's live stream along with most of you and at one point MM stated that people would be safe (from the tornado which was south/east of El Reno along I-40 at that point) if they got as far south as Moore. That statement really raised my eyebrows, at first mainly because of the history associated with Moore. But then, where did the storm's next mesocyclone cycle go? Moore. Luckily for them (and Mike!), by then the process Tim mentioned was underway and it was only putting down intermittent EF0 spin-ups.