2/10/09 DISC: OK/AR/TX/MO/KS/LA

[Dustin Wilcox]

Looked like there was a small tongue of richer theta-e air poking right into that supercell's inflow zone. Saw this on the SPC Mesoscale page. Looked like it hit the best of all worlds there on the Red River and slightly off the dryline.

The Mesoanalysis page did show that, and it was a pretty localized, though impressive poke, in fact it was one of the main things yesterday evening that caught my attention and I mentioned on pg. 7 of the NOW thread at around 6 p.m. or so, how it was poking and pooling right into the Ardmore area. Your right, it was as if everything was coming together in that localized area around Ardmore and points East, the only thing that prevented this from being an even larger tornado event, was the fact that the DL started surging East quickly enough to overtake the discrete cells shortly after they had reached the favorable environment, unfortunately it just wasn’t quick enough for the community of Lone Grove. Had the DL held off to the West just a tad longer, the Lone Grove cell, as well as the one just to its south, would have continued NE into the favorable environment while likely continuing to produce tornadoes.

 

[Jim Tang]

In this interview with KTEN news, Carter County Emergency Manager Ed Reed says that the tornado sirens did sound. I'm interested in hearing from a third source, since one person (eyewitness Ratliff) says they did not sound, and one person (Emergency Manager Reed) says they did. We need a tiebreaker here, although I do tend to put more stock in eyewitness accounts.

http://tinyurl.com/bxt6v7

I have heard other news sources say the sirens did not sound.

 

[Jason A.C. Brock]

SCANNERS NOAA WEATHER RADIO=IMPORTANT IN TA

If you live in Tornado Alley....even if ya dont.....get a scanner or a NOAA weather radio. There will be A SPOTTER MEETING THIS sATURDAy in Wichita falls.
NOT SURE THE LOCATION BUT YOU CAN EMAIL DAVID BAXLEY THE CHIEF METEOROLOGIST AT KSWO TV 7 FROM LAWTON BY EMAIL. THEY HAVE LINKS ON HOW TO CONTACT AS TO WHERE THE MEETING WILL BE.
I WOULD LIKE ALL AREA STORMSPOTTERS TO SHOW UP LETS GET PR STUFF TOGETHER BEFORE ANOTHER LO E GROVE SNEAKS UP ON US.

 

[Shane Adams]

In this interview with KTEN news, Carter County Emergency Manager Ed Reed says that the tornado sirens did sound. I'm interested in hearing from a third source, since one person (eyewitness Ratliff) says they did not sound, and one person (Emergency Manager Reed) says they did. We need a tiebreaker here, although I do tend to put more stock in eyewitness accounts.

http://tinyurl.com/bxt6v7

This is the second time I've heard that the sirens did in fact sound, the first time was from a victim. If Michael was barely ahead of the tornado (going through downtown with the tornado just a half-mile to his southwest), it's quite possible the power was cut to town before Michael made it there. I'm not trying to argue or dispute anything, I'm just raising a possible scenario.

As far as people taking the repsonsibility for personal safety upon themselves, I agree with Jeff whole-heartedly. I grew up in this area and all three major OKC stations are picked up down there, plus four more local stations from Ardmore/Ada/Wichita Falls. I called a friend of mine in Healdton (about 15 miles west of Lone Grove) when the storm was just crossing the Jefferson/Carter county line, and he said they were watching the weather on television and were well-aware of what was going on...so at least one station was doing coverage. On the other hand, my family (who have always been complacent about severe weather despite my being a chaser) had no clue what was happening when I first called them. Once I got them to turn on the television, they were giving me updates when I'd call to check their status, from information they were hearing on television. My aunt was even able to tell me how wide the tornado was based on spotter reports, the last time I called before telling them to take cover. So it's not like there wasn't plenty of warning barring the sirens...if they didn't sound.

I understand how situations like this can fire people up emotionally and make them seek blame, but IMO a tornado siren is the "last line of defense" and shouldn't be necessary as a standard alarm to get people aware/motivated. Yes, the county should be liable if in fact they failed to sound them, but it's hard for me to imagine they didn't. Living in Carter county for almost 20 years, those folks were always trigger-happy with tornado sirens. I can rememeber them even going off for SLW events several times. I guess eventually the facts will come out.

 

[Tom Tackett]

Sirens Win Tiebreaker!!!

Here is the tiebreakder.

My cousin who lives on the East Side of Lone Grove right off of Brock Road just south of U. S. Hwy. 70 has a siren one street over from their street. She says that the sirens DID, I repeat, DDDIIIDDD Sound for this event. It was sometime between 7:15 and 7:20 according to her. Fact is, it was the sounding of the sirens that finally pushed her over the edge to round everyone up and get to the cellar along with several neighbors who decided to dive underground for this event.

I am Interested to KNOW where Michael R.'s location was when he says that he did not hear the Sirens.

I will do another post regarding the Siren situation later on.

My cousin does have that underground shelter there in Lone Grove and they (mainly she) have become rather weather savvy---she knows the Sirens.....it is less than 100 yards from her house.....you can see if from their front yard.

Tom N' Ft. Worth

 

[STurner]

First off, It is very unfortunate that eight lives were lost to this devastating tornado. When I heard there were people missing I thought their may have been dozens of fatalities but I guess about everybody had been accounted for. It could have been worse but still it is sad anybody died from this monster tornado. Another thing, has their ever a tornado of this magnitude during the month of February. This tornado may have caught many people off guard because I hav not heard of many violent tornadoes in the plains during this time of the year.

 

[Chris C Sanner]

Don't know if you guys have seen this...but check out this radar image from KXII:

 

[Chris C Sanner]

First off, It is very unfortunate that eight lives were lost to this devastating tornado. When I heard there were people missing I thought their may have been dozens of fatalities but I guess about everybody had been accounted for. It could have been worse but still it is sad anybody died from this monster tornado. Another thing, has their ever a tornado of this magnitude during the month of February. This tornado may have caught many people off guard because I hav not heard of many violent tornadoes in the plains during this time of the year.

This was the most violent tornado ever for Oklahoma in Feb. but not unheard of as far as tornadoes in February go. Still very rare!

 

[David Yoho]

Here is the tiebreakder.

My cousin who lives on the East Side of Lone Grove right off of Brock Road just south of U. S. Hwy. 70 has a siren one street over from their street. She says that the sirens DID, I repeat, DDDIIIDDD Sound for this event. It was sometime between 7:15 and 7:20 according to her. Fact is, it was the sounding of the sirens that finally pushed her over the edge to round everyone up and get to the cellar along with several neighbors who decided to dive underground for this event.

I am Interested to KNOW where Michael R.'s location was when he says that he did not hear the Sirens.

I will do another post regarding the Siren situation later on.

My cousin does have that underground shelter there in Lone Grove and they (mainly she) have become rather weather savvy---she knows the Sirens.....it is less than 100 yards from her house.....you can see if from their front yard.

Tom N' Ft. Worth

The mayor of Lone Grove also confirmed the sirens did sound.

 

[Michael Ratliff]

tornado sirens

the 1st marker is where we were then headed north into town 7 min before it hit. If they did sound the sirens it was brief and my video shows there is still power on the south edge of town. Everybody is right tornado sirens don't save lives.. people save lives.., but they sure do help. Ray walker is agreeance with me on not hearing them. Anyways i posted this map for the people who wanted to know where we were. If they did sound them job well done!

 

[rdale]

Sirens aren't made to be continuously sounded... They'll burn up. Most sound for 2-3 minutes when a warning is issued, and proactive communities sound them again when a tornado is a few minutes out. NEVER sound them for an all-clear, it does nothing but confuse people.

 

[Michael Ratliff]

tornado sirens

Sirens aren't made to be continuously sounded... They'll burn up. Most sound for 2-3 minutes when a warning is issued, and proactive communities sound them again when a tornado is a few minutes out. NEVER sound them for an all-clear, it does nothing but confuse people.

Ok thanks. I should of been able to hear the sirens from every location....guess i missed them. Like I said before. Job well done on sounding the sirens. End of disc. for me. Yall have at it ..........

 

[Brandon Goforth]

FWIW, they did have 30-40 minutes of warning! The first tornado warning for Carter County issued by the OUN NWSFO for that storm came out at 6:50 pm. At 7:15 pm, a new tornado warning was issued that specifically mentioned Lone Grove:

* AT 715 PM CST...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO 7 MILES SOUTH OF WILSON...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 40 MPH.
* LOCATIONS IN THE WARNING INCLUDE ARDMORE...LONE GROVE...NORTHERN[FONT=lucida sans typewriter, lucida console, courier] LAKE MURRAY...OVERBROOK AND WILSON.

[/FONT]I think the tornado came into Lone Grove near 7:28 pm, and a 7:31 pm Severe Weather Statement noted "AT 731 PM CST...DOPPLER RADAR AND STORM SPOTTERS OBSERVED A TORNADO [FONT=lucida sans typewriter, lucida console, courier]NEAR LONE GROVE...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 35 MPH.[/FONT]"

Now, it is a problem if the outdoor warning sirens did not go off. However, the residents did have warning if they had means to receive the warning. The OUN NWSFO did a good job with the warnings it seems, and Lone Grove was in the polygon for at least 10-13 minutes before the tornado hit (I don't think the town was in the first warning polygon issued at 6:50, but I'm not sure). Those who had weather radios or were tuned in to local media (TV, battery-operated radio, etc), or those that generally had a means by which to receive such a warning without a dependence on outdoor warning sirens, should have received ample warning. Nobody should *rely* on outdoor sirens to warn them, particularly since many are on AC power only (AFAIK - not as many have battery backup), which means that you are toast if power is cut to the siren and you rely solely on that siren to warn you of impending hazardous weather.

EDIT: I don't mean this to sound cold or not compassionate! I really am pained to hear that 7+ people died, and many more were injured. The sirens certainly SHOULD have sounded if they didn't, and the county emergency management officials should have been plenty prepared given the SPC outlook and tornado watch. However, it IS important to take your own safety into your own hands by making sure that you have a reliable and alternate/secondary means by which to receive a severe weather warning.

Well, I said that it was tornado warned from the moment it was crossing the river. I agree that everyone in tornado alley needs to be responsible enough to have more than one source for warning (sirens only), but who knows, that trailer park is low income and maybe some of those people didn't have televisions, I'm not going to try to guess at all of those scenarios in which those people say they had no warning...I do know that the last F4 tornado to pass through the county was given a 30 minute warning. The system was put in place to warn people asap and it uses our tax dollars...people have a right to know why the sirens did not sound sooner, and they also have a right to hold someone accountable for it IMO. And for what it's worth, I have some friends in the west Lone Grove area (tornado missed them) who said they didn't hear sirens until literally just a minute or two before the tornado came rolling through town...that's pretty unacceptable if true considering the NWS had a tornado warning on it for such a large amount of time leading up to the event, so what was the county emergency management waiting on?? I wasn't there, so it's all hearsay of course, but I'm just sayin...

 

[Matt Hughes]

I think that rdale has a good point. Sometimes the advanced warning can shoot you in the foot. This cyclical supercell had been producing long track tornadoes for over an hour by then. It's definitely fair to assume that they sounded too soon and well before Ratliff rolled into town. And it's not like most people adhere to the sirens anyhow. We've all been through towns with sirens blaring and that's the only noticable difference. The ONLY time I've seen 100% compliance to warnings and sirens was last spring in Greensburg for obvious reasons. Am I the only one who is sick and tired of hearing an seeing about fatalities from trailer parks??? I totally respect the fact that a great number of people have limited means but at some point can't they just be abolished!?! Even one human life is way too valuable to produce these death traps.

Edit: If emergency management did not sound the sirens until the tornado was on top of them like Brandon said then it should cost some people their jobs!

 

[Jim Saueressig]

I heard from the beginning that the sirens did indeed sound for some time but if you are in a well insulated house a distance from the siren or the general area of the siren is heavy with trees or the wind is blowing the sound away from you it does diminish the sound. We have new T-128's in our county and town and I can tell you I don't hear these very often compared to the T-Bolts they replaced though they have a slightly higher DB rating.

Sirens aren't made to be continuously sounded... They'll burn up. Most sound for 2-3 minutes when a warning is issued, and proactive communities sound them again when a tornado is a few minutes out. NEVER sound them for an all-clear, it does nothing but confuse people.

I have not since I was a child heard our sirens nor any others I have been near during a tornado shut off and not resounded until it was all clear.

EDIT: I should add that power loss usually takes them out if anything...