10/5/08 DISC: TX

[Andrea Griffa]

I was taking a look to the archive of yesterday radar images and I noticed two fine supercells SW of Midland with a clear and "long" hook echo, isolated and hooking up for more than 1 hour from 22Z to at least 23.30Z.
Anyone knows something about or chase them?

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

I believe one of those was in Crane county wasn't it? If so, it could take a while to hear from chasers if they were there.

FWIW, long hooks like that suck storm-wise. Outflow garbage.

Edit: I should clarify that a little. Long curling hooks can be good obviously, it's the longer straight or slight bowing ones like that that I'm talking about. You can almost see the linear shelfy structure just looking at the radar image.

 

[Chris Nuttall]

MOD NOTE: I'm going to move this to the Target Area and rename it as a DISC thread.

 

[Wesley Luginbyhl]

I believe one of those was in Crane county wasn't it? If so, it could take a while to hear from chasers if they were there.

FWIW, long hooks like that suck storm-wise. Outflow garbage.

Those storms did have way too much outflow, but it could have been worse. I didnt see any cops while I was down there, but I never actually entered Crane county either. I knew that "Crane" sounded familiar to me yesterday, but I just couldn't remember why though. I caught the storm right at the county line, so I never had to risk being arrested.

 

[Mike Kovalchick]

I believe one of those was in Crane county wasn't it? If so, it could take a while to hear from chasers if they were there.

FWIW, long hooks like that suck storm-wise. Outflow garbage.

Edit: I should clarify that a little. Long curling hooks can be good obviously, it's the longer straight or slight bowing ones like that that I'm talking about. You can almost see the linear shelfy structure just looking at the radar image.

The hook looked pretty conventional to me..at least for a little awhile. Had a brief TVS or 2 and was bit surprised there wasn't apparantly more chase activity on these storms. (Note: In the attachment..hard to see but there was a TVS right in the base of the hook directly South of the green hail marker.)

 

[David Drummond]

A couple of us that live out here considered chasing, the area south of I20 being preferred, however the low chance of actually seeing tornadoes, the crap fest already ongoing most of the day ensuring a lot of driving in rain and seeing little, weighed against the cost of gas made us decide not to give it a shot.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

The hook looked pretty conventional to me..at least for a little awhile. Had a brief TVS or 2 and was bit surprised there wasn't apparantly more chase activity on these storms. (Note: In the attachment..hard to see but there was a TVS right in the base of the hook directly South of the green hail marker.)

I was refering to the one image of it, saying when they look like that....they are outflow garbage. Reminds me of (well many, but) the northern pair March 12, 2006 as it crossed into MO. Looked conventional, then looked like that one...long and straight. Never was the same after that.

 

[Tony Cook]

A couple of us that live out here considered chasing, the area south of I20 being preferred, however the low chance of actually seeing tornadoes, the crap fest already ongoing most of the day ensuring a lot of driving in rain and seeing little, weighed against the cost of gas made us decide not to give it a shot.

Ditto what David said for several of us from Central TX. I had the car loaded and ready to leave for a Crane/Odessa target early Sunday. Convinced myself at the last minute that it wasn't worth it (Austin->Crane is 300+ miles one-way).

Of course, when I saw the pair of sup's evolve on radar, I was cursing myself. Such is the nature of the game, though. Also, storms congealed fairly quickly into a quasi-linear mess.

I did notice a couple of reports of "rope tornado" on Spotter Network from a user whose handle was a sequence of d's, e's, and f's. Some of his reports were well away from the storm, so not sure what to think about that. Still, it would not surprise me if those cells produced a couple of tornadoes, given the radar presentation.

TonyC

 

[Bill Schintler]

RE: Oct. 5

I was refering to the one image of it, saying when they look like that....they are outflow garbage. Reminds me of (well many, but) the northern pair March 12, 2006 as it crossed into MO. Looked conventional, then looked like that one...long and straight. Never was the same after that.

I was never excited about a target that far south. Cloud bases were rather high down there (mostly above 1500m AGL), and the shear below 4 km AGL was marginal. That all adds up to high-based as well as outflow-dominant storms. You tend to get strongly negatively-buoyant downdraft's coupled with marginal moist storm inflow. The RFD undercuts the updraft....

- bill

 

[David Drummond]

I did notice a couple of reports of "rope tornado" on Spotter Network from a user whose handle was a sequence of d's, e's, and f's. Some of his reports were well away from the storm, so not sure what to think about that. Still, it would not surprise me if those cells produced a couple of tornadoes, given the radar presentation.

TonyC

I saw that crap. Someone was jackassing around. Some of those reports wouldn't been but a few minutes apart but yet nearly 100 miles apart. Someone thought they were cute I guess.

 

[Andrea Griffa]

I believe one of those was in Crane county wasn't it? If so, it could take a while to hear from chasers if they were there.

FWIW, long hooks like that suck storm-wise. Outflow garbage.

Edit: I should clarify that a little. Long curling hooks can be good obviously, it's the longer straight or slight bowing ones like that that I'm talking about. You can almost see the linear shelfy structure just looking at the radar image.

Mike, the second image I attached is the evolution of the first one: both of the images I posted are two well organized supercells; actually I can't say if with much outflow or not, but I do ensure you that have some clear and long lived hook echos, with some nice inflow notch and V Notch. As for "long hook" I did mean "well formed" hook. Try to see the animation and tell me what you think.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Mike, the second image I attached is the evolution of the first one: both of the images I posted are two well organized supercells; actually I can't say if with much outflow or not, but I do ensure you that have some clear and long lived hook echos, with some nice inflow notch and V Notch. As for "long hook" I did mean "well formed" hook. Try to see the animation and tell me what you think.

All I was saying is, when you see one with a long straight "hook" like that, it's outflow driven. Didn't say anything other than that. Could have been the sup of the year prior to that for all I know. If there is a straight, or even slightly bowed, "hook" like that, it's certainly a loooong gust front you'd be looking at in person. Might be great above that, but it's outflow driven down low.

The lead storm in the first image has that look, as does the following storm in the second image. I was just making an observation on those two, as this was originally in the other section...I thought the beginners/learning section.

 

[Andrea Griffa]

All I was saying is, when you see one with a long straight "hook" like that, it's outflow driven. Didn't say anything other than that. Could have been the sup of the year prior to that for all I know. If there is a straight, or even slightly bowed, "hook" like that, it's certainly a loooong gust front you'd be looking at in person. Might be great above that, but it's outflow driven down low.

The lead storm in the first image has that look, as does the following storm in the second image. I was just making an observation on those two, as this was originally in the other section...I thought the beginners/learning section.

I understand your point Mike,I actually thought the same things, but to me it's not the right radar resolution to give a consideration llike that. Infact if you see the GrLevel3 map, you see a "conventional" shape of the hook. I think that playmouth radar images resolution sometimes misleads us while trying to figure out the types of echoes.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

I understand your point Mike,I actually thought the same things, but to me it's not the right radar resolution to give a consideration llike that. Infact if you see the GrLevel3 map, you see a "conventional" shape of the hook. I think that playmouth radar images resolution sometimes misleads us while trying to figure out the types of echoes.

Oh I don't know that the res is too low on plymouth to make the comment. First, the GR3 image you provided here looks like it must be a frame before the one in the plymouth image(since the core in the plymouth one is a bit past the county line than it is on the GR3 one). Even so, the GR3 image, evidently one frame before, still shows a bit of a long straight'ish hook. It also has the early signs of the sw trail of reflectivity off the end of the "hook" that shows up as the outflow dominates.

I've just seen a lot of storms that were in that sort of process and looked decent on radar like that, but not that great in person...outflowy. If I was down there chasing these, I'd have hoped to been on them for the 30 minutes or so prior to those two points in the original captures on here.