Will El Reno change how you chase?

[Jake Orosi]

Think that large cities like OKC and others should only be taboo unless one had some EMT training, is a doctor, or is/was a fireman or police officer. That is a horse of a different color. Wouldn't hurt to support threads that discuss this kind of emergency training and to encourage it. A well-rounded and responsible approach to chasing can be considered.

The more I think about this suggestion, the less I think I agree with it. I think large cities while chasing should be considered taboo to all chasers, because the hazards - copiously flooded roads, bad traffic, extensive debris - can't be mitigated by any sort of "training".

I'm not even sure such training would be particularly useful in the aftermath. I mean, go for them if you're interested - but in a practical sense? If you're an actual doctor that's one thing - although what you'll be able to do outside of a hospital is limited. EMT training - I believe the scope of practice in most states prohibits practicing without the supervision of some kind of recognized Medical Director, so even if you wanted to whack it up and keep a bag full of OPA's and C-collars and and an ET kit in the trunk of your chase vehicle you wouldn't be legally allowed to use them if you're not on-duty and you will be vulnerable to assault/malpractice charges and lawsuits if something happens. Being a former police officer or current police officer from another jurisdiction - nothing special; nobody will recognize your authority or training so there's little point to it. Fire/rescue - now that might be a little more useful I suppose; but that's not the kind of skill you can just pick up in your spare time at the local community college.

I think a Red Cross first aid course and perhaps CPR, and a basic first aid kit in your car should be more than enough to keep yourself both useful in the aftermath of a chase and covered by "good samaritan" ordinances.

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

The more I think about this suggestion, the less I think I agree with it. I think large cities while chasing should be considered taboo to all chasers, because the hazards - copiously flooded roads, bad traffic, extensive debris - can't be mitigated by any sort of "training".

I'm not even sure such training would be particularly useful in the aftermath. I mean, go for them if you're interested - but in a practical sense? If you're an actual doctor that's one thing - although what you'll be able to do outside of a hospital is limited. EMT training - I believe the scope of practice in most states prohibits practicing without the supervision of some kind of recognized Medical Director, so even if you wanted to whack it up and keep a bag full of OPA's and C-collars and and an ET kit in the trunk of your chase vehicle you wouldn't be legally allowed to use them if you're not on-duty and you will be vulnerable to assault/malpractice charges and lawsuits if something happens. Being a former police officer or current police officer from another jurisdiction - nothing special; nobody will recognize your authority or training so there's little point to it. Fire/rescue - now that might be a little more useful I suppose; but that's not the kind of skill you can just pick up in your spare time at the local community college.

I think a Red Cross first aid course and perhaps CPR, and a basic first aid kit in your car should be more than enough to keep yourself both useful in the aftermath of a chase and covered by "good samaritan" ordinances.

I think that what my point was is that it is in the city's best interest to keep 'lookie lou's' out of the devastated areas. Have your ever read Jason Persoff M.D. account of the Joplin disaster? He didn't expect to work in the ER that day when he woke up to go storm chasing; but that is what he ended up doing.

http://stormdoctor.smugmug.com/

Not trying to propose this as legislation or anything close to it; just saying that it wouldn't hurt for some chasers that have the motivation to learn to pursue it and share the learning experience. When an area is devastated and people are dying, immediate help is required even if it is a ride to the ER. Or providing them with a splint or tourniquet to be sure that they get there. Can't hurt to just offer simple, real help.

Off-duty out of town police or firemen don't need to be asked; they just lend themselves to the local authorities anyway.

 

[amytierney]

"I'm not even sure such training would be particularly useful in the aftermath."

I am sorry but are you on something?? If you are one of the first people to get to an area that has been hit and you have people bleeding from every which way....I am pretty sure you would be useful *trained or just a boy scout*!!

 

[Jake Orosi]

That's what I mean. In a different city, county, and/or state, your usefulness will be limited to basic first aid skills, moving heavy objects, and maybe using your vehicle to take people to the hospital (don't take that the wrong way - these are important and lifesaving things to do). The last two don't require any special training at all; the first one can be trained at minimal expense at the local Red Cross - I believe the American Heart Association also offers first aid courses and CPR courses as well, so choose your favorite flavor.

Formal EMT-B training, this is expensive to take and won't be any help above and beyond the activities listed above because generally speaking being an EMT doesn't entitle you to do special EMT things outside of your actual work hours (being merely on the Registry doesn't entitle you to anything at all, except to be hired somewhere as an EMT). This means taking an EMT course solely to enrich one's possible usefulness in the aftermath of a chase as opposed to in pursuit of actual employment as an EMT, is a waste of time and money. You'll be learning to use a bunch of skills and equipment that you won't have legal permission to use. If you buy the stuff yourself and attempt to do those things anyway because you want to "help", you will not be protected by law as an EMT or even a "good samaritan", and might even find yourself in positive legal trouble.

Police training - less of a problem because you really can't get it unless you're being signed up as a real police officer. If you are one or were one that's awesome; but you should realize that being or having been a cop in Tupelo, MS will get you a cup of coffee in Norman, OK as long as you have a dollar fifty. You won't be allowed to direct traffic or personnel, or tell citizens to go this way or that as a police officer; you'll just be another first aider/heavy lifter.

Same thing with Fire/Rescue training; hard to get unless you're really a firefighter. If you already are, again that's awesome, but again also - first aider/heavy lifter. It's not reasonable to expect to be able to approach working emergency responders out of the blue in your chase vehicle and say "Hey I'm a firefighter/cop over in Blibbityblah, North Jibbity" and wind up with some job other than "look for people who are hurt and phone ambulances for them", and you can just go and do that without having been an anything in anywhere or talking to any first responders.

So my point: aside from basic first aid classes - which are good to have anyway, I might add - don't bother with the expense of specialized emergency response training solely to make yourself a "batter chaser". It's a waste of resources and superfluous besides.

 

[amytierney]

Being a better "chaser" to me, would me to be cautious, safe, and to get the information you are looking for while you are out there without causing harm or getting in the way of the researchers, police, and emergency personnel.

If some choose to take the more expensive route for specialized training, then why not?!?! Its always good to know those things, its a good learning experience and on top of that, you may just decided to change a career while doing it. As it being a waste of resources, that is just not true. There is ALWAYS a need for more medical staff, such as First Responders, CNA's, Nurses, EMT's, ect....and to have any of that under your belt while chasing just means that you can help people better. Chasing, IMHO, also comes with the responsibility to help those who need it. But that's just my opinion. I haven't been able to chase for 2 years now and I miss it, but I will get back out there and when I do, I am always prepared with first aid equipment, because other than that great photograph I am looking for, I am also there to help anyone who needs it.

P.S. You can always use your training in more then just tornado disasters!

 

[Jake Orosi]

If some choose to take the more expensive route for specialized training, then why not?!?! Its always good to know those things, its a good learning experience and on top of that, you may just decided to change a career while doing it. As it being a waste of resources, that is just not true. There is ALWAYS a need for more medical staff, such as First Responders, CNA's, Nurses, EMT's, ect....and to have any of that under your belt while chasing just means that you can help people better. Chasing, IMHO, also comes with the responsibility to help those who need it.

I realize that; but you missed the idea behind most of what I posted.

Yes, we definitely need more nurses, EMTs, and so forth in our healthcare system.

But that's a separate matter. You have to understand that in Town X where you find yourself after a tornado chase, even if you are an EMT or nurse back where you live, you won't be legally allowed to do anything that someone with a basic Red Cross type first aid course wouldn't be able to do. I'm saying this because a lot of people have the same mistaken impression, that being trained as an EMT means you can do all that neat EMT stuff you've learned anytime, anywhere it's needed, and that's simply not true and in fact is a presumption that can get you in legal hot water.

Aside from that, you also need to know that if you take an EMT course and register as a Basic, if you haven't been actually hired as an EMT-B or taken approved and documented CE (at your own expense), you're removed from the registry after only 6 months. You can't even get hired then, unless you take the whole training program all over again.

So - take the EMT course if you want to get a job as an EMT. Otherwise, take a first aid course which will 1) teach you everything you'll actually be allowed to do in an emergency situation and 2) save you a WHOLE lot of money besides. You'll also be leaving a training class slot open for someone actually seriously pursuing a career rather than dabbling out of curiosity.

 

[Mike Johnston]

I come at this topic from a completely different point of view. I'd like to think I know enough to realize what I'm not good at, and would try to avoid any situation in which I might be pressed into some paramedical role. Heck, I get squeamish just pulling out a basic first aid kit to treat a kid on my little league softball team. That's something to keep in mind with an activity like storm chasing - know your own strengths and weaknesses. There is a lot involved - not just forecasting, but navigation, vision, identifying storm structure, photography, etc. To throw some additional requirement on yourself like trying to be a quasi-first responder might just be asking too much of yourself if you're not cut out for that kind of work. Will it make you a better chaser? Maybe in a very secondary way, but I don't think for a moment it comes near being fundamental to being a good chaser.

 

[Jake Orosi]

I hasten to add (lest someone think I'm just some kind of wet blanket) I do think wanting to help is admirable if you're up to it. But don't go overboard: spend your money practically and wisely, and on skills you'll actually be able to use.

 

[Warren Faidley]

That's what I mean. In a different city, county, and/or state, your usefulness will be limited to basic first aid skills, moving heavy objects, and maybe using your vehicle to take people to the hospital (don't take that the wrong way - these are important and lifesaving things to do). The last two don't require any special training at all; the first one can be trained at minimal expense at the local Red Cross - I believe the American Heart Association also offers first aid courses and CPR courses as well, so choose your favorite flavor.

Formal EMT-B training, this is expensive to take and won't be any help above and beyond the activities listed above because generally speaking being an EMT doesn't entitle you to do special EMT things outside of your actual work hours (being merely on the Registry doesn't entitle you to anything at all, except to be hired somewhere as an EMT). This means taking an EMT course solely to enrich one's possible usefulness in the aftermath of a chase as opposed to in pursuit of actual employment as an EMT, is a waste of time and money. You'll be learning to use a bunch of skills and equipment that you won't have legal permission to use. If you buy the stuff yourself and attempt to do those things anyway because you want to "help", you will not be protected by law as an EMT or even a "good samaritan", and might even find yourself in positive legal trouble.

Police training - less of a problem because you really can't get it unless you're being signed up as a real police officer. If you are one or were one that's awesome; but you should realize that being or having been a cop in Tupelo, MS will get you a cup of coffee in Norman, OK as long as you have a dollar fifty. You won't be allowed to direct traffic or personnel, or tell citizens to go this way or that as a police officer; you'll just be another first aider/heavy lifter.

Same thing with Fire/Rescue training; hard to get unless you're really a firefighter. If you already are, again that's awesome, but again also - first aider/heavy lifter. It's not reasonable to expect to be able to approach working emergency responders out of the blue in your chase vehicle and say "Hey I'm a firefighter/cop over in Blibbityblah, North Jibbity" and wind up with some job other than "look for people who are hurt and phone ambulances for them", and you can just go and do that without having been an anything in anywhere or talking to any first responders.

So my point: aside from basic first aid classes - which are good to have anyway, I might add - don't bother with the expense of specialized emergency response training solely to make yourself a "batter chaser". It's a waste of resources and superfluous besides.

As an EMT / Chaser I can say that advanced training does help at disaster scenes and more so, accidents you run into while chasing or at even at home. However, you don't need to be an EMT to help at a major disaster scene. The majority of trauma with tornado strikes are bleeding, limb trauma (or loss), fractures + compound fractures, crushing and blunt force injuries, impalement and head injuries. You are generally not going to handle diabetic issues or other non-trauma situations -- so you don't have to have advanced EMT training. A good first aid course for trauma is fine. It's possible to learn the basics of bleeding control (including proper tourniquet use), breathing issues related to trauma and handling shock. It's also good to know proper C-spine management and have some idea of triage so you don't waste time on someone who is not going to live regardless of what you do. I have an EMT bag that I carry, but it mostly contains an assortment of trauma bandages and wraps for controlling bleeding, surgical gloves, etc.

The problem with rushing into a disaster scene is your own safety. I learned this as a journalist long before I started chasing. There are many dangers including: falling debris, power lines, chemical spills, gas leaks, sharp objects and many more.

As discussed before, there is no requirement for any chaser to assist and it's a personal judgement call. I for one, would have a hard time if I found out a victim or (chaser's) life could have been saved and I did not know what to do.

Warren

 

[Kem Poyner]

I am really surprised no one has mentioned deceptive looking roads. I have changed the way to handle them and I think many others should too! I now have a true 4x4 with plenty of clearance for mud build-up and uneven conditions (ditches). Prior to that I had too many close calls stuck it the clay. Front wheel drive helps, but not when the wheel wheels get packed. Worrying about MPG is a poor factor to base your chase vehicle on. Choose your roads wisely! They can be worse than they appear, or just disappear after cresting a hill!

 

[Brian]

The El Reno tornado will not change the way I chase as far as when to go out or where to chase but it will change in the fact that I will try to a get more research equipment to try to find out why these storms intensify so quickly and become so violent. in fact I would like to be able to get more video from initiation period thru its complete cycle to help analyize the data that I possibly would be able to collect. Also am considering getting a frame mounted push bar for my chase vehicle.

 

[Stan Rose]

No. See my blog entry today ("This is why I chase"):
http://www.stanroseimages.com/blog

 

[Windshear Kear]

I've lived in OK my entire life, and I've never witnessed people fleeing as they did during the El reno storm. My day quickly went from chasing, to self preservation mode. 98% of the cars on the road were entire familes, including pets. The highway patrol did not help the situation by closing large sections of highway. I hope everyone realizes now, how bad an idea it was to leave their homes.

As far as changing how I chase...it probably won't change much. I've never liked the idea of chasing in heavily populated areas anyway. Every storm and scenario is different. In the future, if a storm is heading to a populated area, and its the only game in town, I will be on it. However, if I see signs of a mass exodus, I will high tail it outta there much sooner next time.

Oklahoma City news networks have some of the best meteorologist and storm chasers in the world. Along with live simulcasts on all radio channels during severe weather, not to mention 4 helicopters in the air. Chasers, choppers, and meteorologist give street by street information as to where the tornado is, and or going. The news stations had been talking about Friday being a big weather day for 3 days. Nobody in the world is more informed during bad weather than those who live in central OK. This is all the more reason I was so surprised to see the masses evacuating the OKC metro area as they did.

 

[rdale]

This is all the more reason I was so surprised to see the masses evacuating the OKC metro area as they did.

Much of that was due to these so-called "best TV meteorologists" telling people to evacuate the OKC metro area.

 

[Brian]

I have absolutely no idea why the media told people to evacuate and would like to know who gave that lone cop the authority to close down 81 on his own, which closed off a main escape route for many chasers.