Will chaser congestion and unncessary risk taking lead to anti-chase legislation?

[Karen St John]

pretty much damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you're unfortunate to be in the path of a mile wide wedge and you have no basement or storm shelter, the only other options are find a neighbor that will let you in or flee the area that's in the path of the storm.

I think Mike Morgan pretty much felt that leaving people to die in their homes was not the right thing to do. It's a catch 22, and I've seen opinions on his decision vary, but I can't in any sense validate him telling a mass population of people to fill the streets (10 minutes prior to a storm hitting) in their cars in a panic to drive south fully well knowing that tornadoes can and often do change their courses.

Get that storm shelter, then, during this upcoming off season. Eat ramen and cheaper cuts of meat if you must, don't buy a new PS4, keep your PS3, but get a shelter. Or use that money to pay taxes for more community shelters, like in apartment complexes. Just do it. Or wind up dead prematurely.

 

[Mike Moore]

"He's a corporate weather jock sent out to the field to boost ratings and provide entertainment."

Ahhh.

Thanks for clarifying the REAL issue you have here. Bettes is a heck of a nice guy, but it's clear this thread is simply a baseless trash the guy who makes more money than I do thread. You should give Warren a call... you guys could write books together.

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

local news picking up on this, and this was from storms 2 weekends ago. Wait till the media and other jurisdictions latch on to yesterday's events and begin to connect the dots...especially if more and more citizens start making noise like this.

http://www.ksn.com/2013/05/29/number-of-storm-chasers-becomes-problem/

SEDGWICK COUNTY, Kansas — A Clearwater man is proposing an idea to Sedgwick County leaders that could ease traffic concerns during severe storms.
Art Gentry of Clearwater submitted a one page letter to the county commissioners recently.

The letter in part is proposing an idea to limit the number of storm chase vehicles headed to the scenes of severe storms.

“When a storm is forecast that a certain group of numbers might be allow to do the storm chasing,†said Art Gentry. “But keep the numbers paired down to a manageable number of them out there.â€

This idea is the result of the May 19th tornado that tore through parts of southwestern Sedgwick County near Clearwater.

“We saw about a little over 100 cars and trucks storm chasing up and down that stretch of highway,†said Gentry.

The highway Gentry is referring to is K42.

Traffic came to a stop on K42 when a tornado was moving into Clearwater.

Some people like Gentry was trying to make it to safety, but travel times proved to be a problem.

“Because those people who are not storm chasing that are seeking to get a place of safety should not be impaired or impeded in their travels,†said Gentry.
The Sedgwick County Sheriff’s Office said it has been fielding complaints about this in recent days.

They say that unless you’re a professional storm chaser with a job to do then it’s best to seek shelter.

“Folks that just going out to see if they can get a photograph of the storm,†said Lt. David Mattingly, Sedgwick County Sheriff’s Office. “It it hampering our efforts to get in and assess damage and get the people who may have been injured.â€

Lt. Mattingly adds, “What we’re concerned about is we’re going to have a substantial crash. There’s someone not paying attention. They’re going to try to get home and crash into somebody else.â€

The idea has not be formally presented to the county commissioners yet.

Safety issue and severe storms: Legislative or County Ordinance proposal.
Due to the huge number of storm chase vehicles turning out at severe weather events, I believe we need to limit in some fair way, the number of such vehicles.

To wit: Sunday May 19 I and my wife were in west Wichita near I-235 and Kellogg when the sirens blew. We reside in Clearwater and were very interested in making a safe but unimpeded drive home. The weather was still about 4 to 7 miles west of 135[SUP]th[/SUP] st west when we were traveling southbound to our home in Clearwater.

There were well over a hundred vehicles of apparent storm chasers all up and down 135[SUP]th[/SUP] from K-42 to the north edge of the City of Clearwater and caused us to slow down to less than half the speed limit in several places causing us up to about 4 minutes of delay to get to a place of safety.

My wife and I have witnessed this situation before in the local area and down in Oklahoma a few years ago at the interstate and Blackwell OK exit when a tornado was passing from west to east just north of there.

I knew where I wanted to go to get away from that storm but the number of chasers caused us a near 8 and a half minute delay just to exit there to go west away from the center of the storm.

What I believe is needed is licensing of storm chasers of some sort and a significant fine when they impede the flow of traffic in which people are seeking to get to a place of safety.

I would suggest the exempt vehicles would be law enforcement, legitimate media vehicles and of course fire and ambulance and electric utility repair vehicles.

Beyond that, a license requirement and the information of consequences of impeding the flow of traffic during a storm emergency that would include a significant fine and even possible short stay incarceration to stem this nonsense. The old adage of how many people does it take to screw in a light bulb applies to this

Safety would be the first reason for this and also allowing emergency vehicles to travel without storm chasing vehicles causing impediment to their need for making every second count

The legislation would somehow have to not include people who are seeking safety in a nearby ditch (as an example) when a storm event is imminent and very close or about to overtake them. Tornados are dangerous storms, but high wind and large hail are also very dangerous to anyone caught out away from safe shelter. This idea of licensing is not to impede freedom, but to strengthen safety in an imminent storm situation. Legitimate Media do a very good job reporting storms.

If licensing is done, a limited group of license numbers could be allowed for a given severe storm forecasted for the area and rotated to a limited group of license numbers for each storm event.

I would also point out that the storm on May 19, 2013, though forecast at it was, intensified with amazing speed from partly cloudy conditions to a fully intense dangerous storm.

Art Gentry
Clearwater, KS

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

"He's a corporate weather jock sent out to the field to boost ratings and provide entertainment."

Ahhh.

Thanks for clarifying the REAL issue you have here. Bettes is a heck of a nice guy, but it's clear this thread is simply a baseless trash the guy who makes more money than I do thread. You should give Warren a call... you guys could write books together.

this isn't about money. This isn't about popularity. IT'S ABOUT SAFETY. Being a nice guy has nothing to do with this.

I could care less if he kisses babies and donates $1,000,000 to whatever charity.

The issue is reckless behavior while storm chasing for which he's being trashed.

 

[Jeff Duda]

Can we wait and hear what happened from the man himself? You say it was not just a mistake. You say it was "just stupid decision making and endangering the life of his crew." Again - do you have some inside knowledge of the situation here? Can we give it a day or two and hear what happened from the people who were there? Obviously Bettes is higher profile than a lot of people out there, but I think this is a bit of rush to judgement. I'm not defending Mike or what happened - I'm just saying you've convicted him without even waiting to hear from him or the crew what happened. What went wrong? I'm sure they have some useful knowledge about how they go into that situation, and others could learn from that.

He did speak in an interview on TWC after the incident. See this: http://www.weather.com/video/tornado-hits-twc-crew-37092

Also, in the video from inside, you can clearly see they are driving south towards the tornado as it is moving east towards the road. They %^&#ed up, and in my opinion, they deserve all the heat they're taking.

 

[Sean Ramsey]

He did speak in an interview on TWC after the incident. See this: http://www.weather.com/video/tornado-hits-twc-crew-37092

Also, in the video from inside, you can clearly see they are driving south towards the tornado as it is moving east towards the road. They %^&#ed up, and in my opinion, they deserve all the heat they're taking.

Agreed. Poor decision making, lack of understanding or just plain disregard for the power of tornadoes. They drove straight into it! I know he is a meteorologist and has covered plenty of storms, but I wonder how much actual tornado chasing experience his team has? I don't remember TWC actually sending out chase teams for tornadoes before, so possibly inexperience played a role in something like this?

 

[Marcus Diaz]

This thread is pretty one sided, but then again tell me one good reason anyone should be that close to a violent rain wrapped wedge again?

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

Bettes has acknowledged he made a mistake and publicly owned it. For that I give him props.

https://www.facebook.com/twcmikebettes/posts/10151453430108443

Thank you all for the kind thoughts. Everyone is okay. Hopefully our mishap will teach us all to respect the weather & be responsible & safe at all costs. I thought I was doing the right thing, but obviously I wasn't. Lesson learned the hard way. Someone was watching over us. Very blessed to be headed home tomorrow to see my family.

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

Agreed. Poor decision making, lack of understanding or just plain disregard for the power of tornadoes. They drove straight into it! I know he is a meteorologist and has covered plenty of storms, but I wonder how much actual tornado chasing experience his team has? I don't remember TWC actually sending out chase teams for tornadoes before, so possibly inexperience played a role in something like this?

From what I understand this is his 3rd season on the Great Tornado Hunt. There's what? Maybe 30, 45, 60 days of the chase season, and how many are actually spent chasing and latched on to a storm?


But I don't know how much experience really comes into play here Sean.

I've been on less than 30 storms, and only 3 of which had a tornado on the ground (Highland, KS - 2011), May 20th, Moore, OK, and May 20th Large wedge tornado and a satellite in Meeker, OK (w/ Brady Kendrick, James Siler and Marcus Diaz)...and we all knew well enough to not get too close on the OK storms. We viewed all from more than a mile away.

The Highland tornado in 2011, I was chasing with Jeremy Holmes, and we were being led by Doug Guise and Terry Schenke in another car and they led us in front of the Highland, KS tornado which came over the hill and behind my car 100-300 yards (just an estimate, but I could see tree/leaf debris swirling behind the car in my sideview mirrors). I was never really happy about that and that was not my first chase, but that was the first tornado I had ever seen, and being that close to it, rattled me a bit. For that reason, I will never again chase with Doug or Terry. They might be well respected or well liked, but the decision they made still doesn't sit well with me today.

I think more or less it comes down to what risks you're willing to take and how close you're willing to get. Bettes is a meteorologist, he should have definitely known better, and I think his ego got the best of his common sense yesterday and they just made bad decisions.

I love to chase and see the storm, but when it's THAT close that I'm in fear for my safety or life...that's just too close. Maybe some live off that adrenaline rush or thrill or whatever, but I know as inexperienced as I am, I'm still cautious when I chase.

Prior to 2 weeks ago, it had been about 2 years since I had a real chase. I was out solo in Brownell, KS, and I texted Jeremy Holmes, and I let him know I was out and was a bit nervous. He said latch onto a storm and follow the other chasers and don't get too close. He kept it simple, but he gave sound advice and I didn't get too close, just kept my distance.

 

[Mike Moore]

This thread is pretty one sided, but then again tell me one good reason anyone should be that close to a violent rain wrapped wedge again?

LMAO - it's not like they drove up to a violent rain wrapped wedge. They didn't see it from 20 miles out, set the cruise control and crash into it. The situation obviously escalated pretty quickly, as several chasers were caught off guard. My point was that perhaps we should find out what happened first? Did the crew stop and help a bus full of kids change a tire and they got caught? Did they just wonder too close like idiots trying to get the shot?

I wasn't saying a conversation shouldn't be had, and I wasn't saying Mike or anyone yesterday was right. I was just saying maybe we should find out what really happened first. Since the point of the thread is to bash Mike Bettes, and not provide any real useful information there's no need to wait for facts. It was my mistake not realizing the real purpose for the thread.

And Hannah in the end it's not up to you, or anyone else here how people chase. I know that must be painful to hear, but it's true. People have the right to spray line-x on a Tahoe and pretend that gives them super powers. People have the right to scream like children in HD while escaping a situation they put themselves into to get hits on youtube and sell footage. If people want to chase 50 feet from a huge tornado - they can do that too. I don't agree with how people like that chase, but I fully realize it's not my call.

We have this local guy with a HUGE ridiculous amber and green lightbar with skywarn stickers on just about every inch of his back window. It makes me cringe every time I see him, but I realize he has every right to do what he does no matter what I think.

Now if Bettes had a lightbar going when this happened, then that's different and %$# him.

 

[Joshua Nall]

I like all the gadgets, didn't it even have a freezer in the back for hail collection? But then when you watch the video you have to ask, did it not have brakes? I guess I can laugh about it since no one was hurt.
If someone wants to risk their life to film a tornado up close... I enjoy watching the videos. Keep them coming. Life is not about being safe all the time, if you really want to live it. I certainly don't understand how some people get all undone over it. It's their thing, let them live it, you live yours. My only concern is the numbers and how this impacts the folks who live in the area. I have stopped chasing on several occasions because I felt I was being a part of the problem with congestion. I just turn off on a dirt road and try to get away from everyone and generally end up enjoy myself with trying to get to another storm or photography from a distance.

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

I didn't say it's up to me how people chase. I think people should consider what they're doing though and fully consider their responsibilities, especially when it includes those in their chase vehicles.

You and the people you chase with might fully well know the consequences of what you're doing and what can and will happen if there's a screw up, and you all might be ok with that.

But that won't really sink in until one day, the passengers in a chase vehicle all end up dead, and some grieving widow or parent convinces a gung ho prosecutor to make an example out of the driver who happened to survive, and they prosecute him and he ends up in prison for voluntary/involuntary manslaughter, and the families of the dead chase companions are suiing the driver for negligence and reckless endangerment.

Just something to think about and consider. Sure, you all might be buddies. But are your chase buddies' wives/girlfriends/mothers/grandmothers gonna feel the same way your chase buddy does if he doesn't return home?

At some point it's going to happen. Some day we're all going to be asking WHY? HOW? WHAT HAPPENED? WHAT LED THIS TO HAPPEN? WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE TO STOP IT? TO PREVENT IT?

I hope for the sake of everyone on this forum, it's no one here.

 

[Mike Moore]

I would buy that book... it sounds thrilling.

 

[Jeff Hawkins]

There was a time where storm chasing tools included your eyes, your brain, a map, and going to the local NWS office to get a forecast. No internet. No cell phones or radar, no GPS. Most of us haven't experienced storm chasing that way...at least intentionally. Very few people considered storm chasing in the past because of the inherent danger and smarts needed to do it safely. And very few, if any, chasers were doing it for a thrill. Most were scientists and researchers.

The way technology has changed over the past even 5 years (video, internet, smart phones, cell signal improvements etc), coupled with the increased public awareness of storm chasing and general knowledge of how tornadoes form and 'how chasing is done' (via TV shows, and more 'live' coverage, a natural result OF the research done in years past) have made storm chasing seem real simple to do, de-mystified tornadoes to some extent, and made it seem not-so dangerous to do.

This IMHO has introduced chasing to a large population previously ignorant or avoident of chasing, and created a fad of sorts. It's become attractive to curiosity seekers (who now want to try it for themselves because they see 'how it's done'), and adrenaline junkies (who see the extreme videos and want to get that thrill they see others getting). Attempts to teach the "don't try this at home" precaution doesn't meet with listening ears, it seems. Because of this, there's probably going to be some "wise" legislator who's gonna propose a law to restrict chasing "for the public safety". Especially if storm chasers continue to be negatively portrayed in the media, and influence public opinion like they can do.

 

[Marcus Diaz]

LMAO - it's not like they drove up to a violent rain wrapped wedge. They didn't see it from 20 miles out, set the cruise control and crash into it. The situation obviously escalated pretty quickly, as several chasers were caught off guard. My point was that perhaps we should find out what happened first? Did the crew stop and help a bus full of kids change a tire and they got caught? Did they just wonder too close like idiots trying to get the shot?

No, they were NE of the circulation and tried to race it south. While we may never know what went through the minds of the person navigating or the person driving, it was clear from the moment you saw the tornado in their video that there was no way they were going to beat the tornado. So to clarify what you said; yes, they did indeed drive right up into a violent rain wrapped wedge.