When did the "wedge" definition change?

[david diehl]

I've always thought when hearing the word "wedge" to describe a tornado that it was indicative of its shape.

This was the shape I associated with such a tornado:

Was this just an assumption on my part or do others think the same when they hear "wedge"?

... I've heard the mile-wide town erasers referred to as wedges as well ... and it seems this year almost every tornado is a wedge (haha).

Dann, I agree in your defination of a wedge, I am also reminded of a log splitting wedge, I have never heard of a wedge being wider than it is tall, makes no sence to me, that would be like saying a mile wide stove pipe tornado coul;d be a wedge, I just do not agree with that. to me a wedge is a wedge, stove pipe is a stove pipe.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

Dann, I agree in your defination of a wedge, I am also reminded of a log splitting wedge, I have never heard of a wedge being wider than it is tall, makes no sence to me, that would be like saying a mile wide stove pipe tornado coul;d be a wedge, I just do not agree with that. to me a wedge is a wedge, stove pipe is a stove pipe.

Like it or not David, it is known as being a tornado that is wider than it is tall. I understand that it could be misunderstood as being in the shape of some sort of triangle, but that isn't the commonly held understanding of what a wedge tornado is. A mile wide stove pipe would certainly be a wedge tornado. You can think that Dann's definition is right, but that is strictly an arbitrary definition and it is totally different from what the weather community interprets as a wedge tornado. That is the equivalent of me saying that I think the updraft base more closely fits the term "wall cloud", so I'm going to start calling it that and I'll call the formerly known wall cloud a "kundis". I certainly have the right to do that, but nobody else is going to understand what I'm talking about and isn't the whole idea of speech to convey thoughts and ideas accurately from one person to another? Kind of defeats the purpose if you go off of your own definitions that conflict with the commonly held meaning of something. Just my two cents. Here is a link to NOAA's definition of a wedge. Since they are the ones issuing the warnings, I think they are pretty much the authority on the topic of descriptive words for tornadoes. http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/binger.htm

 

[Shane Adams]

Like it or not David, it is known as being a tornado that is wider than it is tall. I understand that it could be misunderstood as being in the shape of some sort of triangle, but that isn't the commonly held understanding of what a wedge tornado is. A mile wide stove pipe would certainly be a wedge tornado. You can think that Dann's definition is right, but that is strictly an arbitrary definition and it is totally different from what the weather community interprets as a wedge tornado. That is the equivalent of me saying that I think the updraft base more closely fits the term "wall cloud", so I'm going to start calling it that and I'll call the formerly known wall cloud a "kundis". I certainly have the right to do that, but nobody else is going to understand what I'm talking about and isn't the whole idea of speech to convey thoughts and ideas accurately from one person to another? Kind of defeats the purpose if you go off of your own definitions that conflict with the commonly held meaning of something. Just my two cents. Here is a link to NOAA's definition of a wedge. Since they are the ones issuing the warnings, I think they are pretty much the authority on the topic of descriptive words for tornadoes. http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/binger.htm

I understand the chasing world considers big tornadoes to be 'wedges'....and I dig the term. But I'll ask for the 3rd time....who came up with this name for fat tornadoes and why? A "wedge" shape is universally-understood to be fat on one end and tapered on the other, more akin to a "cone" tornado. All I'm asking is who first started saying "wedge" and why did they, when before chasing and weather geeks were around, decide to take an understood term and apply it to something that did not fit its description?

Call a tornado shape whatever you want, debate it 'til the cows come home....but where did this all start and for the love of all things good, why?

 

[Dann Cianca]

Like it or not David, it is known as being a tornado that is wider than it is tall. I understand that it could be misunderstood as being in the shape of some sort of triangle, but that isn't the commonly held understanding of what a wedge tornado is. A mile wide stove pipe would certainly be a wedge tornado. You can think that Dann's definition is right, but that is strictly an arbitrary definition and it is totally different from what the weather community interprets as a wedge tornado. That is the equivalent of me saying that I think the updraft base more closely fits the term "wall cloud", so I'm going to start calling it that and I'll call the formerly known wall cloud a "kundis". I certainly have the right to do that, but nobody else is going to understand what I'm talking about and isn't the whole idea of speech to convey thoughts and ideas accurately from one person to another? Kind of defeats the purpose if you go off of your own definitions that conflict with the commonly held meaning of something. Just my two cents. Here is a link to NOAA's definition of a wedge. Since they are the ones issuing the warnings, I think they are pretty much the authority on the topic of descriptive words for tornadoes. http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/binger.htm

NOAA's "definition" refers to a wedge being "informal storm observers' slang"

... hardly definitive?

 

[Mikey Gribble]

I have no idea where it came from Shane.
Oh for god's sake.... so because it says it's slang and infomral on the NOAA definition you are holding out and saying that a wedge isn't understood as being a tornado that is wider than it is tall? They clearly say...

""Wedge" is informal storm observers' slang for a tornado which looks wider than the distance from ground to ambient cloud base"

Seems pretty definitive to me. There are about 50 other definitions that say the exact same thing, so take your pick. Are there any defenitions that claim a wedge tornado is the same thing as a cone tornado? Better yet is there a NOAA defenition that says that? I seriously doubt it. I don't know what other proof I can offer.
Informal just means it isn't a scientific term that has a definitive meaning or hard and fast criteria. That doesn't disqualify the defenition and understanding of the term. You are riding a dead horse on this one IMO. Call it whatever you want to, just don't expect people to understand you when you call a cone or stove pipe a wedge.
I'm out of this conversation. I think it is pretty ridiculous to sit here and try to convince somebody that a well established defenition is true. I'm going to spend my time on something better like forecasting for "kundises" on Thursday.

 

[Bob Schafer]

Since the term "wedge" is chaser slang, and we are the chasers, then we can change the definition if we wish. Poll!! LOL

 

[Dave Gallaher]

Some of 'em look like a wedge, but hit like a sledge...

 

[Jeff Bartlett]

Mikey, we use to debate "wedgeness" a lot in the past. Sometimes, it isn't very clear in pictures or even in person where the tornado funnel actually "enters" the cloud base. In the case you show above, this looks like the intermittently-large tornado that was SE of Douglas OK on 5/24/08 (based on the name of your file), taken from nearly the same location as me. If you look at the two annotated figures here, either of these could be representative of what was happening:

Was the tornado actually attached to the rear part of the occluded low-level mesocyclone? This is where the cloud bases are typically lower since it is ingesting the precip-laden air next to the main core, and typically trails off into the precip as a classic tail cloud, which we observed before it became rain-wrapped. Or was the tornado centered within the precip ball, where, trying to account of 3D perspective, the cloud base was higher than the base observed further behind? Hard to say. In either event, it was a significant tornado, and it was larger than this at times (but not 1 mile wide as KFOR kept exclaiming).

In defense of KFOR and depending on your positioning, I can't say I blame them for their report of a mile wide wedge. At the time of the first radio reports of a mile wide tornado, I was just getting myself out of the mud roads west of Marshall, which the roads were great up until about 3 miles outside of that town. When I looked north at the meso I had just been under for ~1 hour, this is what I saw.

If the mile-wide report came from a spotter further back, or the chopper that may have been further south due to safety concerns, this looks like a monster wedge. It appears that the meso rain-wrapped and gave the appearance that the whole thing managed to reach the ground, which did not happen. Can't say I blame them though based on the appearance from further south.

 

[Bill Hark]

This thread and especially Shane’s question got me curious about the term “wedge.†I decided to do a search on my CD ROM of old Stormtracks. Here is what I found:


The first reference to wedge was in the July 31, 1987 issue under chaser news. I believe it was written by Tim Marshall.

“On July 31st, a wedge-type tornado
struck Edmonton, Alberta killing at
least 26 people and injuring 250.
Awesome video was taken from three
locations as the tornado formed and
moved across the northeast portion of
town. Videotapes show a high contrast
tornado with rapid side motionâ€

I next saw the term in the May issue devoted to the March 13, 1990 tornado outbreak under commentary, again written by Tim Marshall.

“This issue of STORM TRACK is entirely devoted to the March 13, 1990 tornado outbreak
which ravaged portions of Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and Iowa. Several of our
subscribers traveled to intercept tornadoes. Jon Davies and David Schaffer saw the
infamous tornado at Hesston, Kansas while Shawn Woolen just let one tornado come to
him. Their experiences are shared within this special….

One of the most dramatic videos
I've seen was taken by Dean
Alison. He was just south of town
and has steady close-ups of the
tornado base as it enters town to
cause a shower of flying debris.
Although, Hesston received most
of the media attention, there
were other large wedge tornadoes
that roamed the plainsâ€

In the July 30, 1992 issue, there is a visual tornado classification by Tim Marshall. The last sentence in this quote is amusing.

“TORNADO VISUAL CLASSIFICATION by Tim Marshall
Tornadoes are like snowflakes in that each one is different. However, I have seen a number
of similar tornado types over the years. In an effort to better describe what tornadoes
look like when you're talking to others or writing about them, I thought it would be
helpful to classify tornadoes (excuse me Dr. Doswell) by their size and appearance. After
all, not all tornadoes are "wedges".â€

The term wedge had become common in the early 90’s. There was the “infamous 'Wedge Week" in 1993 (May 5-9, one
map for each day) when on 5 consecutive days numerous tornadoes, several of strong and violent intensity, occurred at
various locations in the plainsâ€


There is also a famous video of the early chase years called “wedgefest†Below is a copy of the classified ad. I bought that video and it is still one of my favorites.

“WEDGEFEST 1995: Four chasers have assembled another great chase tape featuring four chase days. Highlights
include four wedge tornadoes (among others) from Clarendon to McLean to Allison, Texas on June 8th. The
latter tornado was the infamous mile wider. Then on June 9th, chasers brave a fierce lightning barrage to
film five dusty tornadoes near Chillicothe, Texas. The tape finale features the making of the Volvo
commercial. "Fasten your seat belts", says Jim Leonard. 90 minutes, VHS, $30.00 ppd.â€

I don't know if the CD ROM of Stormtrack is still available but it is very interesting with detailed chase accounts, analysis, photos and lots of Dave Hoadleys illustrations.

Bill Hark

 

[Bobby Prentice]

Tim Marshall created a very good tornado reference guide back in an old StormTrack article.

TORNADO TYPES - REFERENCE GUIDE by Tim Marshall

STATIONARY AND TRANSLATING TYPES SHOWN IN MOST BLOCKS

SUB-VORTEX TYPES (GROUND-BASED)

AIR-BASED (AIRBORNE)

 

[J West]

To add more fuel to the fire, I present this from the MKX damage survey this afternoon of an EF2 tornado yesterday in Columbia county, WI:

BROAD ROTATION WAS INDICATED BY THE DOPPLER RADAR SEVERAL MILES
ACROSS...WITH AN EMBEDDED INTENSE CIRCULATION. THUS...A TERM
SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS A...MESOCYCLONE ON THE GROUND...PROBABLY
OCCURRED. THE MULTIPLE SMALLER VORTEXES WERE EMBEDDED WITHIN THIS
LARGER CIRCULATION.

I wonder how a spotter/chaser would have reported that from a distance through trees...certainly the term "wedge" could have come into play.

 

[Tom Mitchell]

I thought the original term had nothing to do with the tornado at all, but rather the effect such a large tornado had on early chaser's undies when they puckered up upon seeing one