Travel cautions for Southwest chasing

[cdcollura]

Good day all,

I guess I'll make sure my Asian women lingerie folder is NOT on my laptop if I drive to AZ for lightning.

Just kidding - LOL I could not resist.

Politics and this BS in the US stink. GET ALONG everyone!

 

[Greg Campbell]

Folks, keep in mind that 95% of what you see on the evening news is hype and BS! This is a 'hot' story, and so it's going to receive disproportional coverage.

Personally, I doubt I'll do anything different. I chase the Hwy 83 corridor, near Las Cienegas, as well as 80, 90, 191, etc., all of which are well S. of I-10. I'm seldom out late, and usually have some lingering twilight for better visibility. I figure I've got another 30 years (max) on this planet, and I'll be damned if I let the Bimbo on the evening news give me an anxiety attack that limits my lifestyle. Yes, I carry a blaster on my person, and keep another concealed in the car.

FWIW

 

[Warren Faidley]

No offense but I think that you all are over-reacting. This may seem like a very dangerous type of situation, and for what we're used to in the US, it is. But in comparison to what Mexico and the vast majority of Central/south America has been dealing with for years, this pales in comparison. This is just a tiny dose of what the rest of the world experiences all the time. Remember, not everyone has a country that spends 663 billion dollars a year on defense.

So I know it may be a little scary, but honestly, the mexican drug cartel probably doesn't want a whole lot to do with storm photographers. It just seems really dangerous to us because we hear isolated acts of crime occurring in the desert.


but thanks for the concern!

I don't think you would feel this way if you lived and worked in the area. I am amazed at how many people outside AZ (not referring to you), think the people of Arizona are over-reacting or making this stuff up. This region has become a hell-hole of danger -- including the world's capital of kidnapping. Just read a week's worth of police and sheriff reports from Pinal and Pima counties. (I live in Pima County). Driving through some Phoenix areas after 10:00 PM is like a war zone -- passing stopped cars surrounded by cops with automatic weapons, high speed chases, shootings, stabbings, assaults, robberies galore, etc., etc. After studying in local ER's as an EMT, I can tell you the criminals, victims, etc., often pile-up after dark. The media plays this down for political reasons but it's real and spinning out of control.

There are areas where I will no longer shoot lightning, like A Mountain on the south side of Tucson. It's been over taken by gangsters and the lot. The Police are afraid and will not enforce any laws, so they decided instead to close the place at dusk. Others areas, just south of Tucson, are also off limits. In fact, many parks and recreational areas now close at dusk. The drug runners and coyotes (human smugglers) are armed are will not hesitate to kill anyone they cross, as has been the case lately and it's getting worse. They would have no problem stealing camera equipment and your car, then popping a cap in your head so you cannot report them. This has already happened to a friend of mine who shoots landscapes. He was robbed at gun point and had everything stolen, including his car.

I generally don't venture out at night to shot lightning without inviting Mr. Glock and Mrs. AR-15.

My advice to anyone shooting lightning after dark (duh), is to stick to a populated, well traveled area and avoid any remote location. As others have noted, the odds of encountering trouble are very limited, but the risk exists.

W.

 

[Robert Edmonds]

If you think it's over blown, just go take a look at the numbers of murders in Juarez. More than 2000 in one year! Some where around 5000 in 2 1/2 years. This is an hour drive from where I live, and you hardly hear about this on the national news. Yes it is something you need to be aware of, however I will continue to keep enjoying the area, but I do take a few extra precautions these days. Traveling to Northern Mexico though, that's something you don't do.

By the way that means at least 1 in 300 people have been murdered in Juarez in the last 2 years.

 

[Susan Strom]

Well, numbers and signs speak to me. It doesn't really have much to do with the media, but more about the stats, and any signs that are around. I pulled this real quick. Interesting.
http://recordspedia.com/Arizona/Pinal-County/Crime-Statistics

For the crime stats you can look up online easily from the county or contact the organization, such as sheriff's office, the border patrol PIO, tribal law enforcement, Dept of the Interior, rangers, and in roundabout ways such as environmental impact (illegal roads and trash) studies done by organizations like Sierra Club. I first learned of it through Sierra Club before speaking to border patrol and rangers, and read more from Dept of the Interior.

You can also read the physical signs and make a personal decision on a place. Some of mine include...if I see the tennis shoes draped over electric lines, indicating possible drugs for sale, I will not take pictures from there. If you see trash in the desert, are the product labels American or Mexican? Does this indicate travel? Is there clothing? Or is it just a drinking area with beer bottles around? I won't stick around anyhow.

Do you see roads that should not be there; do they look human-made rather than just an animal path?

It is the same thing as being in the natural world really. I would not pretend that a problem doesn't exist and go bumbling about near a known mountain lion habitat, if I saw a fresh scratching tree or telltale cat print, or if Game & Fish had reported high lion numbers.

If law enforcement reports a migrant camp or smuggling route in a certain place, or if I ran into some other signs that indicated, why push it? Why not just go somewhere else in the 116,000 square mile state that is Arizona, until things simmer down...

I plan to chase as usual but avoid certain areas, my normal ones in the borderlands I have stayed out of for several seasons now, and more recently, parts of the Central Deserts and most importantly, try to keep tabs on the information as it changes.

Warren mentions "A" Mountain. I would agree about that...I chased that once, rough area. New to my "off" list is Antelope Peak near I-8 and the Vekol Valley in the Central Deserts, and not limited to those. If the Pinal County Sheriff's office says that the cartel uses it to move drugs, I'm done with it for now.

I would recommend just being aware of the map and the area you are in, not treating AZ like Kansas, and getting the latest info. I would also not drift around unaware just because a storm is good.

But don't fret too much or not come to AZ. You can improve your odds of safety greatly just as you can in any city or state too, especially when Arizona is a Titanic place with room for chasing for everyone. It is like God's football stadium out here.

PS Warren, I remember you mentioning your photo friend. Glad he was not hurt. If I recall correctly, he is quite a well-known talent. Did he make any changes to his expeditions after that happened? thx

 

[Susan Strom]

Sunday 7/11/10 midnight
Dear chase diary,

Time to head out of this dark desert, Picacho Arizona, after a lightning chase in the southcentral deserts alongside I-10. (The days of meandering about off the main roadways down here in the Central Deserts at night are on hold for me at the current time.)

The desert is extra dark tonight, hot with no moon, and the lightning is starting to wane. I just took a call from chaser friends near Marana, who just passed deputies on the side of the road arresting more individuals armed with AK-47s.

Personal note: Currently wondering if the quarter in my pocket, the one I use to twist the screw on my tripod mounts, would buy me an answer as to why Washington seems to be moving at a glacial pace when it comes to protecting the American Southwest from drug trafficking and illegal immigration, and even fights governor Jan Brewer when she tries to do something about it. Would the Arizona Desert rise higher on the priority list if politicians in Washington were to see the national monuments out here eroded not by wind, but by clothing & water bottle trails, migrant camps, and drug mules?

Driving north out of Casa Grande on an empty 387 with the lights of Phoenix in the distance, I wonder if the desert will ever be a place of tranquil beauty again, or if that thought is even realistic given its history...the US and Mexican cavalry, the Spanish, mining camps, Geronimo, Cochise, Apache and Pueblo revolts, eras that have led up to this moment, when the Wild West still seems as wild as ever.

It must be this weird road making me think all these things, and lament the fact that realistically I can no longer chase in some areas where I did before. Like Ironwood National Monument, for instance
http://www.lightninglady.com/photos/LLCallofthedesert.jpg
or the Sawtooths, which according to reports is a stomping ground for illegal activity.
http://www.lightninglady.com/photos/StromDarkBeauty.jpg

And sometimes I wonder if other chasers think this, why we were bitten by the chase bug that never seems to let go...passed over for a normal hobby such a oil painting or building ships in a bottle, to chase electrical storms, blowing sand all night, and tornadoes through desert or plains...and like it so much?

The truth of the matter is the most disquieting, that I can no longer rove around freely down here throughout the Central Deserts like I used to a few years ago. Things have changed. I might even take a chase partner (maybe). Where's Geronimo when you need him? lol. And currently, will look at tomorrow's forecast, for the Superstitions, Mazatzal, or the Mogollon Rim...3 hours north of the border.

 

[Susan Strom]

I'd like to add a bit about my post above, just to reinforce that my field notes are not intended to stoke any fires of political debate about Arizona's SB1070 law, but to point out that chasing has been greatly impacted out here, no matter which side of the fence you're on.

Remedy is slow in coming. A political situation is behind it, but this is a safety thread. If I got too close to 1070-ish going-there discussion, then my bad.

I for one have altered my chase behavior, treating the Central Deserts with the same caution level as the AZ/Mex borderland part of the state.

Last night sacrificed good storm after it drifted too close to Ironwood National Monument, reputed to be a smuggling route. No longer chase there nor turn into the darkness on certain mid-desert roads (like Toltec) like I have 1000 times, nor into the borderlands and have limited Casa Grande as well.

Last night there was a bad accident on I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson. Traffic was backed up for 10-15 miles, essentially meaning that my route home after chasing was blocked. A couple other bypass roads were jammed too. So I had a choice to make...consider 85 out of Gila Bend or get a motel in the deserts.

But now, there is no way I'd get near 85 to Phoenix at night, because of the smuggling. I took a bypass to I-10, and out there, knowing I was still in the same county as the bad zone where a Pinal county deputy was shot a few months ago, I kept on moving.

Out on 387, that's where I was thinking about all this... What will chasing in Arizona be like next year...and the year after that? What is realistic and what is the actual threat assessment? The number of vantage points I personally have abandoned keeps getting bigger.

So if you chase the Southwestern border states and have altered your monsoon chasing in any way (or have not), feel free to post here about your thoughts.

 

[cdcollura]

Good day all,

I have not chased AZ yet but heard it's awesome for lightning chasing.

This is really sad because once again, some really rotten people have ruined it for many non-rotten people.

 

[Dennis Dennison]

I can walk out into the desert from where I live. I generally head east of Phoenix. But reading everything I can, and now this post has brought my alarm meter up. I too used to run all over the state, without any fears of running into people who might try to harm me. But lately, I have felt unsafe out in the middle of nowhere. I realize that sounds paranoid, but are you really alone out there? Or is some lowlife creeping around in the brush nearby?
For those who say its all hyped up by the news--ITS NOT. As we cant go into politics here, it keeps us from discussing WHY its like this.
As Susan said, if you come to Az to chase, especially lightning, because its best at night. Be very aware of where you are, and anything around you. Be aware of your location, not only so the illegal traffic does not get you, but also so you will not be caught up in flash floods-make certain to scout the terrain for several routes that do not include washes or anything that could suddenly flood on you.

As far as the Tucson and Casa Grande stuff--HOLY COW--that is revolting. What and when will we as citizens, demand that criminals be dealt with in harsh terms?
I guess we will never get a grip on the situation......will we?

 

[Ed Boik]

Remedy is slow in coming. A political situation is behind it, but this is a safety thread. If I got too close to 1070-ish going-there discussion, then my bad.

You didn't get to close. You're lamenting the situation and expressing your experiences/opinions on it without touching 1070. My single observational comment is that nearly all this violence and smuggling is generated by a poorly enforced and/or crafted drug policy. I believe that much like prohibition caused the streets of Chicago to be overrun with smugglers, marijuana prohibition causes the deserts of Arizona to be more dangerous. Changing drug laws won't eradicate the problem, but it will significantly reduce the power the cartels have.

On topic, I live in the west valley of Phoenix and have a small hill near my home which gives me a good view of the Camelback, Piestewa Peak, and the storms as the roll off the mountains into the valley. This keeps me from having to venture too far to get nice shots. I'll probably shoot around the Buckeye Hills area and or southwest of Whitman this summer as the monsoon cranks in this area. It's just quicker and easier for me.

 

[MClarkson]

I figure I'll ask this here... I am returning to school and moving to Tucson in about a month. The thing is I love rock climbing and hiking and I am sure I'll try to get up high(in a car) to take pictures of storms as well.

While out and about hiking and climbing do I need to carry a weapon with me?

 

[Greg Campbell]

I figure I'll ask this here... I am returning to school and moving to Tucson in about a month. The thing is I love rock climbing and hiking and I am sure I'll try to get up high(in a car) to take pictures of storms as well.

While out and about hiking and climbing do I need to carry a weapon with me?

Again, don't believe all the Doom and Gloom news you hear. Ratings are everything and to hell with objectivity and journalistic integrity! Much of Az is as safe as anywhere else.

There is good rock climbing in the Catalina Mountains, just N. of town. This area will be well off any smuggler's route and should be entirely safe.

I go hiking frequently in Saguaro NP (East), Sabino Canyon, and in the above mountains. I've never felt remotely threatened, not have I observed anything fishy in these areas.

I must admit that I'd feel somewhat less cozy if I were out alone in the foothills of the remote Dragoon or Santa Rita mountain ranges. Like many, I do cary a blaster when out alone in the wilds. Having said that, I've never come close to needing it. I've seen some funny stuff going on once or twice, down toward Sonoita, but it was at a great distance and I didn't feel threatened in the least.

 

[Richard Dickson]

I figure I'll ask this here... I am returning to school and moving to Tucson in about a month. The thing is I love rock climbing and hiking and I am sure I'll try to get up high(in a car) to take pictures of storms as well.

While out and about hiking and climbing do I need to carry a weapon with me?

This question deserves a decent, responsible answer. The decision to purchase a weapon, and to possibly choose to use it someday, should not be made based upon a few well-intended responses from a forum. That decision should be made after an individual has given the matter the utmost thought and serious soul-searching about the reasons for purchasing a weapon and the heavy responsibility that owning it brings.

Contrary to all of the bravado talk about “shooting first and letting God sort it all outâ€￾, displaying or using a weapon should be the last resort and comes after you’ve told yourself that the situation is out of control and this is your only option to ensure your survival or the survival of your loved ones. My personal philosophy is that if the weapon comes out, someone is about to be seriously injured or killed including myself. That spilt-second decision is made knowing full well that you may be subjected to countless days and expense defending your actions against a legal system whose Prosecuting Attorney has a long standing record of being a perfect Monday morning quarterback. You, and you alone, are totally responsible for the bullet from the time it leaves the barrel until it has stopped all motion. That is not a decision to be taken lightly!

I’ve lived in Arizona for twenty-four years and would never have dreamed that we would be in the situation we are now seeing. The days of the old west are supposed to be over. About eight years ago, I took the required classes to obtain a Concealed Carry Permit and have several weapons at my disposal. Most of the time, I chose to leave them at home or in my vehicle as I don’t feel threatened at all during my routine around Casa Grande. I am well armed when I venture out into the desert, but again, choosing to use a weapon is a different decision than having one available. My .357 certainly doesn’t match an AK-47 in a gunfight.

My very best advice would be to spend a little time in Arizona and seriously evaluate your feelings about the surroundings you might be climbing and traveling in. If your decision would be to purchase a weapon, I would strongly recommend attending a reputable Concealed Carry Permit class and getting your license. Arizona is strange in that it is perfectly legal for anyone to walk down the street while openly having a firearm on your person as long as it is in full view. (Certain restrictions apply to the previous statement.) Having the permit demonstrates that you have received the training and are aware of the consequences of your actions. I know this was a long post, but I hope that it conveys the answer you are seeking and doesn’t sound like I am preaching.

 

[Susan Strom]

I go hiking frequently in Saguaro NP (East), Sabino Canyon, and in the above mountains. I've never felt remotely threatened, not have I observed anything fishy in these areas.

I don't think Sabino Canyon has issues either. Sabino is the most popular tourist attraction in Tucson with a fee-gate and a shuttlebus that goes up it and it is close to the city. It would think it would be really hard to use for smuggling.

Away from the cities where the storm-hunting is good, there are vast swaths of desert, thousands of square miles, parts of which can either be safe to chase in...or not.

The goal of the thread is to open it up for discussion and not give the impression that the entire state of Arizona is chaseable devil-may-care. I wish that were true, but it isn't true.

We can talk about areas that concern us and why.

For myself, here are the areas where I no longer chase.

-Highway 85 and surrounding desert Vekol Valley between Gila Bend and Phoenix is out for me. The area is warned on as well with government signage for illegal immigration and drug trafficking activities.

-Tohono O'odham Indian Community because of the patrolling that the Shadow Wolves have to do on the 75 mile smuggling route that cuts right through their land.

-Lukeville, Ajo deserts

-Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge

-Cabeza Prieta

-Organ Pipe National Monument (the border patrol told me no, and I believe them)

-Sasabe, Nogales, Naco, Douglas and other border towns (again, thumbs-down from the border patrol)

-Parts of south Tucson like A-mountain

-Ironwood National Monument (I only shoot it from a distance and even then...not 100% sure it is safe to do so). Sawtooth Mountains. I was told of activity from conservation people.

-Highway 8

-Silverbell Mountains

-Antelope Peak (migrant camp) Casa Grande and desert surrounding Casa Grande

-Stanfield (this is close to where a Pinal county deputy was shot, and where I got this picture and now don’t want to go there at present...I am not sure of it.)
http://www.lightninglady.com/photos/StromLightningFactory.jpg

-New Waddell Dam

-Indian lands without permit (but that’s unrelated to immigration)

-and not limited to these

If you have some of your own, please list.

Here is my thought about guns, feel free to disagree. There is no yes or no answer. What are the risks of owning? Kids in the house? Do you have training and maintenance time?

A cop friend of mine says don't get one unless trained regularly and can eliminate risk to self and family. That makes sense to me, I volunteered at the PD for crime prevention and learned from them that any weapon you carry can be used against you..mace, gun, knife, whatever it is.

My best weapon in the desert is awareness and retreat if I don't like something. I keep a wide view. If I see anything funky, such as a pickup truck that approaches and suddenly turns lights off, a vehicle I don’t like, or high concentration of litter, I get out without delay. And knowing where not to go in the first place is key for me, gun or not. I would be outgunned.

I’m cautious too if I see other signs too such as shoes over an electric line (possible drugs for sale).

And truly, it is a PHOTOGRAPH. Is it worth the potential risk to life or a property crime? Can I just move to another area and get the same thing?

I have also learned from experience what not to do while chasing here. I don't wander away from my vehicle a.k.a my escape hatch. I don't park where I would have to back out. I don't lose track of my keys. And the main one…I don't concentrate so heavily on the storm that I lose track of what's around me.

I am also willing to abandon equipment in the desert to get out if needed, and have had to do this twice, once when I got chased by 4 men in a pickup truck and once when I stumbled into an crime scene in the Central Deserts and pickup truck came up behind me.

I strongly disagree that all of AZ is safe. Arizona is big. A lot of it IS safe. Some parts are not.

For information, there are sources of first-hand data...

Border patrol sector headquarters in Tucson
Pima, Pinal, Maricopa and Cochise County sheriff's offices
Dept of Interior online
Conservation and wildlife management agencies. They monitor the land impact of the illegal roads, campfires, cactus damage, trash and clothing corridors.
Park rangers who are in the parks every day.

Border patrol and park rangers have been really helpful to me over the years.

I am chasing monsoon now. The action is just starting. Friends are chasing. Foreign film crews are here. There are thousands of square miles out here with many chaseable areas far away from the danger.

AZ contains 116,000 square miles. The largest lake, if the shoreline was stretched out end-to-end, measures the same distance as the entire West Coast of America. Arizona has 99 other lakes. lol!

So don't let fear run away with the fun of chasing, just be informed. Could you even cover the safe parts of Arizona in 20 lifetimes??

 

[Susan Strom]

I can walk out into the desert from where I live. I generally head east of Phoenix.

For east of Phoenix, try this chase Dennis, you'll love it... Goldfield ghost town across one mile south of Lost Dutchman State Park on Apache Trail Highway 88.

On the Mammoth Saloon side (take dirt road off right to the back of the ghost town) you are higher up with a clean shot of Superstition Mountain, in front of a really awesome circa 1892 saloon that is an operating business that stays open past dark.

Not many patrons in the summertime, and I haven't got a clue as to why. The old country bar restaurant is way cool, and the people are really nice and it is a piece of the Old West...wood plank sidewalks, resident ghost, the whole 9. The view is incredible at Goldfield...and the mountain sticks up and attracts lightning.

I love it!

Superstition Mountain, birthplace of the Apache thunder god.