"TORNADO EMERGENCY"

[Chris Vagasky]

Not to start another flame war, but what do you think of KTKA Chief Meteorologist Matt Miller repeatedly declaring a Tornado Emergency last night as a tornado struck Manhattan, Kansas?

http://www.ktka.com/videos/2008/jun/12/20217/

 

[beaudodson]

Yes, I noticed he kept saying tornado emergency. Great job. I was wondering if the NWS actually issued any tornado emergencies yesterday?

The Manhattan, KS tornado would have been a time to do that. Confirmed tornadoes moving into the city - with history of damage.

 

[David Drummond]

Not to start another flame war, but what do you think of KTKA Chief Meteorologist Matt Miller repeatedly declaring a Tornado Emergency last night as a tornado struck Manhattan, Kansas?

http://www.ktka.com/videos/2008/jun/12/20217/

Well, tornado WAS on the ground in a city. Not sure how much more of an emergency you could have than that.

 

[Chris Vagasky]

Yes, I noticed he kept saying tornado emergency. Great job. I was wondering if the NWS actually issued any tornado emergencies yesterday?

The Manhattan, KS tornado would have been a time to do that. Confirmed tornadoes moving into the city - with history of damage.

I checked all of the SVS issued after the Tornado Warning for the Manhattan area was issued, no Tornado Emergencies were put in the SVS.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

The weather radio was perfect in the language used last night. I don't know who was behind the keys typing it in, but it really conveyed well what was going on in Manhattan. Lots of very clear language ... "large, destructive tornado is being reported moving across the airport and through Manhattan ... if you live in or near Manhattan, this is a life threatening emergency." It was totally a play-by-play with near constant updates as the tornado moved northeast and advisories were issued for people going out to assess damage. We also wondered if an emergency might get issued, but even without the official 'tornado emergency' lingo, this was about the clearest communication I've heard in a long time. Helped us visualize the storm behavior -

 

[Jim Saueressig]

The weather radio was perfect in the language used last night. I don't know who was behind the keys typing it in, but it really conveyed well what was going on in Manhattan. Lots of very clear language ... "large, destructive tornado is being reported moving across the airport and through Manhattan ... if you live in or near Manhattan, this is a life threatening emergency."

I think that worked much better than just dropping a tornado emergency in the warning. there is not much left to the imagination about whether or not you are really in the path of this "Tornado Emergency"

 

[Mike Smith]

I am reading this in an MHK restaurant at the moment, finishing lunch.

This was not a "large" tornado, at least in the central part of the city. The damage path is less than 300 ft. wide.

A "tornado emergency" would have been an incorrect call as this was certainly not a "Greensburg" or "Moore" even though it was an impressive hook on radar.

This why I am against the "tornado emergency" message. 1) We don't have the consistent skill. 2) All tornadoes are dangerous and should be treated as an "emergency."

Mike

 

[David Drummond]

Well I think personally, any time you have a confirmed tornado going through a city, regardless of it's size, it's an emergency. Anything that has the immediate power to kill is an emergency. What's the difference if it wipes out a 4 block wide path or the whole town? Is it somehow less dangerous to those in the path?

Sure all tornadoes are dangerous, but not all tornadoes rip through towns and cities where they have the most potential to kill people. A tornado "emergency" to me is "there is a tornado, ripping through town, RIGHT NOW. You better get your ass under cover NOW"

 

[Danny Neal]

Looking back on Saturday, the 7th of June when those large tornadoes were moving through the south-side of Chicago, LOT never once put out a "tornado emergency." Even though confirmed reports of a large hybrid wedge/stovepipe (Tornado that hit populated area of Park Forest, Richton Park) were coming in.

Whether this is a good or bad thing isn't the issue. Regardless the terminology there were zero deaths.

 

[Bob Hall]

On Thursday June 5th I was retuning from a chase the net controller at NWSFO in Tulsa was beginning to ask questions of spotters that indicated they were seeing circulation on radar for Creek and Tulsa counties and at 11:34 PM issued a tornado warning. The sirens immediately sounded across Tulsa. Many coworkers asked me why the sirens went off on Thursday as they didn’t even bother to turn on the TV to find out what was happening.

Unfortunately people have disassociated the fact that a tornado warning is serious business To date 118 people have been killed by tornadoes this year. I completely concur with David Drummond that based on this behavior, it is critical that a tornado emergency be used, but used appropriately and only when a confirmed tornado headed to or occurring in a populated place.

 

[beaudodson]

I am reading this in an MHK restaurant at the moment, finishing lunch.

This was not a "large" tornado, at least in the central part of the city. The damage path is less than 300 ft. wide.

A "tornado emergency" would have been an incorrect call as this was certainly not a "Greensburg" or "Moore" even though it was an impressive hook on radar.

This why I am against the "tornado emergency" message. 1) We don't have the consistent skill. 2) All tornadoes are dangerous and should be treated as an "emergency."

Mike

In the end it was a fairly large-violent twister. Certainly could have been much worse though - at least for the east part of town.

The NWS Topeka has completed the storm survey for the Manhattan area. The maximum intensity of this tornado rated EF4. EF4 damage occurred at Amherst Ave. and Peachtree circle and had a path width of 1/4 mile at this point. The track near Manhattan is plotted on the image below.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/crnews/display_story.php?wfo=top&storyid=15350&source=0

I don't care for tornado emergencies or PDS watches. That is just me though.

 

[Robert Dewey]

Glad to hear that I don't have to take cover unless a "Tornado Emergency" is issued.

 

[Mike Smith]

Any idea what specific damaged caused them to rate it an EF-4?

 

[Patrick Marsh]

I completely concur with David Drummond that based on this behavior, it is critical that a tornado emergency be used, but used appropriately and only when a confirmed tornado headed to or occurring in a populated place.

The question then becomes, "What is a populated place?"

By definition, a single person make a place populated. If you mean "heavily populated" the question then becomes, "What makes a place heavily populated?"

 

[Chris Vagasky]

Any idea what specific damaged caused them to rate it an EF-4?

http://hoot.metr.ou.edu/text/?t=pns&f=KTOP_122218_PNSTOP.txt

This PNS has a discussion of it.