The impact of social media on storm chasing

[Mark Gressman Jr]

The last few posts here have touched on my thoughts better then I could have expressed them. As Dan, Jason and Warren so eloquently explained, there's definitely a divide between the platforms and the type of people who use them. I do think there are some things ST could do to bring over the "other" crowd, but I'm still happy with the smaller community that's here as well.

My personality is the type that likes the low key, academic vibe that the rules provide. I also think the high barrier to entry, in that some effort to learn the meteorology is required to participate in discussions without sounding stupid, shows that those participants are serious about chasing.

More traffic to the site is always going to be beneficial, but there is a balance that needs to be reached. I honestly don't think ST is too far off that balance, but again, that is my view based on my preferences. To tie this in with the original topic.... Social media has it's place in storm chasing, and it's not all bad. It gets more people interested in the activity, for better or worse. ST should be the place new aspiring chaser go to, to get serious and learn the finer points from the people who want to do it right.

 

[Jason N]

Spot on Mark

 

[Sean Ramsey]

In my humble opinion, fwiw, this is not a place to try to gain an audience or a following, or even recognition of any sort. It's a place that's available for chasers (old and new) to talk shop, in detail if they like. We all love likes and shares, but for ST it should be used for general agreement and not much more than that. For this place to grow organically again, the veterans must be willing to answer questions from the new chasers who are interested but don't know what they don't know, and as Dan mentioned above, there should be a less stringent application of the rules (especially to TA) where someone can post and not feel silly doing so. It's that feeling of admonishment that drives away the very people you want to stay. More guidance from the veterans and/or gentle correction of misinterpreted forecast or less than optimal application of known facts (can't think of a better word) would be much more effective and would help new people learn along the way. Poor quality posts (SPC says 5%, lets goooo!) as mentioned above should have the standard rules apply. I think there is enough of a veteran base to start with, the question is how willing would they (we) be to lend guidance when it's needed or necessary. To put it bluntly, be the change (or standard in this instance) you wish to see.

I wouldn't worry about attracting old chasers back, most are of a different mindset anyways. The people who come here do so for a reason, even the lurkers. It's those people ST should be wanting to capture, and encouraging them to stick around and find their place in what could be a thriving and alternative community with a vast wealth of searchable knowledge that SM can't offer. It might not be tangible, but that is the value and opportunity of this forum, place, or community if you will. If you don't care for the circus on SM, then if you're reading this you just might be in the right place, as I feel I am these days.

 

[Brett Roberts]

From what I can discern, there are two primary reasons that chasers (from veterans and newcomers alike) choose to use social media over Stormtrack.

1.) Audience and reach. Even in Stormtrack's heydey in the 2000s, posting a good photo would result in it being seen by maybe 2,000 people total, mostly within the chasing community. The best-case scenario was when a major media outlet or site like Digg or Fark would link to a thread and send 50,000-80,000 visitors here. Contrast that with social media, where the audience goes well beyond the weather community, can easily reach the millions and be seen by pretty much every figure in the weather world including the NWS and local/national TV celebrities including Jim Cantore, James Spann and the like.

My thoughts: No one likes taking the time to post something, then get no views or feedback on it. Talking to yourself gets tiring very fast for most people. Unfortunately, that's become the norm here. But it's a feedback loop: many avoid ST due to the inactivity, but the inactivity comes from everyone like them avoiding it!

2.) Today's mainstream storm chasing culture is at odds with most of ST's core long-timers. I see this as Stormtrack's biggest challenge. Let's face it, the vast majority of new chasers who started after 2008 were inspired not by the likes of Hoadley, Marshall, Doswell or Bluestien. Not by the NOVA special or even Twister. No, their icon is Reed Timmer. He's their introduction into the chasing hobby. They imitate him, look up to him and want to live his adventures. Chasing since 2008 has basically been Timmer's world. The rest of us are outside of it and left behind. And most of us old timers, understandably, simply loathe everything about that, won't tolerate any of it and are openly hostile to everyone in that realm. I'm not taking sides and saying who's right or wrong. I understand (at least I think I do) where both sides are coming from. There are legitimate safety issues at play. But you can't be hostile to what's become the mainstream of storm chasing and expect any of those people to ever come here, feel welcome here and stay around - and ultimately be influenced at all. Until we figure out how those two realms can coexist in the same place here, Stormtrack will never stand a chance. That's the other strike that social media has against ST. Those two realms *do* coexist there. Why that's the case is a question above my pay grade.

One practical compromise that might be considered: I think some of the legacy rules of being heavy-handedly stringent on TA threads, while a good thing in ST's heydey, might be more harmful now in a "rebuilding' era. While flames, spam, one-word "cool", "sweet", "wow" posts and similar detritus should of course be controlled, the fact is that in the short term, most every bit of engagement and activity helps ST. Engagement is what drives social media. We rightly worry about us old timers' past stated intolerance for those things, but as I said before, we tolerate far more on social media now. How much worse could a few less-than-academic forecast posts on Stormtrack be?

Conclusion: Chasers use social media because they feel they're getting something out of it. Even if it's just a dopamine hit that blinds them to the realities of a manipulative system designed to exploit them at every turn. Stormtrack needs to offer tangible value that gives them a reason to come here. Doing this successfully without sacrificing any core values will be a challenge, as it means attracting a mainstream that is in many ways at odds with what storm chasing was for many of us when we started. Is it possible?

What a great summary of the conundrum that high quality, long form conversation venues like ST have been stuck in as of late.

If I could add my 2c to all this great insight: my intuition and observations tell me that #1 (best conceptualized as attention addiction) is by far the dominant social ill we're dealing with, whereas #2 is perhaps primarily an issue in the minds of ST users, veteran chasers, academics, etc., and not so much something that's actively driving young chasers or SM addicts away from here.

I've always occupied a strange middle ground between the old and new school of chasing. For example, even though I myself have an academic background in meteorology, I've always found some of the more extreme sanctimony and intolerance of certain old school academic pioneers offputting and driven as much by ego as by principle. But even despite that, I've never felt at all out of place on ST or in any similar forum. My point is that I don't think chasing styles, or even academic credentials, have all that much to do with the value one can provide or receive at a place like ST. Let's take a hypothetical 22-year-old chaser with no formal education, inspired by the likes of Reed and RHY, but who is pretty serious about the hobby, understands the basics of soundings and ingredients, and does quality photo/video documentation of their chases. That chaser could easily participate in the forecast and reports threads here, and it would be a net positive for everyone involved. They would get to share their media with an audience who genuinely appreciates it, and they might also learn some new things in the forecast threads.

The reason this hypothetical chaser isn't here, I'd argue, is >95% likely because of the SM dopamine hits and desperation for virality and clout with a wider audience than ST can provide (even if ST returned to its glory days). Our attention spans, and even our underlying motivations and the shape of our engagement with various beloved activities, have been fundamentally rewired for the worse. There are plenty of chasers I greatly respect whose interest and contributions date back to well before the current SM environment... but whom have clearly been utterly consumed by its siren song. Once cerebral and generous in their engagement with the chasing community, they now A/B test all manner of 50-character unpunctuated one-liners and memes for the optimal time and weekday to squeeze out every last like, openly describe chasing "success" as tantamount to follower count, and (consciously or not) turn their SM engagement ever further away from constructive conversation and more toward hobnobbing with the handful of bigger names whose follower counts are to be worshiped and envied.

To restate this in a bleakly concise way: SM has reapportioned their motivations for chasing away from nature, learning, and organic community, and toward the simulacrum of clout and status with a generic mass audience. And ST will never provide them a mass audience.

To the extent I'm right that everything I just railed on is the core reason why forums like ST are in their present state, I simply don't know how much we can do. If I'm honest, the most I realistically hope for is that a small fraction of serious chasers whose personality types don't lend toward the SM attention-seeking doom loop (most do, it seems) can accumulate here over time. Long-form conversation venues like this confined to an organic, niche user base may forever remain at the outer fringes of cyberspace in our brave new world, but at least the chasing community has grown large enough that we only need a small rate of participation to make this place worth checking in on daily.

 

[JamesCaruso]

the vast majority of new chasers who started after 2008 were inspired not by the likes of Hoadley, Marshall, Doswell or Bluestien.

Ironic that the original pioneers Dan listed (who used to be the “veterans,” and inspired those of us who are now veterans ourselves) don’t show up here. They are the ones I think we’d like to get back on here, not the “masses” that are on SM, many of which may like looking at pictures or videos but couldn’t care less about detailed chase reports, forecasts, or the science generally. Bigger is not always better. It would be nice to grow the community, but we have to define what that community is, and not look for numbers just for their own sake, at the expense of ruining the neighborhood.

T, I might recommend that the threads are segmented into more professional with more stringent rules, and maybe there are others that are less so, like maybe create a "Weather Lounge" area where topics and threads have less stringent oversite on comments and materials, but they still all have to be weather related.

We already have that, with individual forums like Introductory Weather & Chasing and The Bears Cage, separate from Advanced Weather & Chasing.

, I see ST as, sometimes to a fault, much more of an academic institution. I also see it as a place to go to get the access to more educated, longer term institutional knowledge,

I agree. This gets back to my point above - we shouldn’t look for numbers just to say we have a bigger audience. There is nothing wrong with being a niche for the more serious, thoughtful and scientifically-minded. It’s like strategic positioning in a business - you can be the Walmart or Budweiser serving the masses, or you can be the specialty boutique retailer or craft brewer. But what frustrates me is that there are probably many chasers that fit the ST mold, yet still remain exclusively on SM, as @Brett Roberts noted. ST is the only place that has long-form, curated chasing content, so it’s ridiculous to prefer SM instead. And it irks me that the “big name” chasers think they are too good for ST. The pioneers are like parents that still think of their children as little kids even though they are now adults deserving of respect.

vast wealth of searchable knowledge that SM can't offer. It might not be tangible, but that is the value and opportunity of this forum, place, or community if you will.

I think the curation is a very tangible benefit. Can you go into SM and search a particular event, and look back at how the forecast evolved, see all the (long form) chasing reports in one place, etc.? No, that can only be done here on ST.


I follow the work (books, podcasts, newsletter - he does NOTHING on social media) of Cal Newport, a computer science professor at Georgetown University who, among other things, is a thought leader on the impact of technology on society and culture. He thinks the whole concept of Twitter as a global “town hall” is ridiculous. His perspective is, why would we even need a *global* town hall? Groups should be smaller and come together around niche interests, like in the “original” days of the internet. Go narrow and deep, instead of wide and shallow.

This 2022 article about social media’s negatives from Jonathan Haidt made quite a splash when it first came out, and is seen as a seminal piece in the rising tide *against* SM: Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid

I think we are well-positioned to capitalize on the growing backlash against social media. We do need to increase our outreach, to maybe get some of the pioneers and veterans back, and to get some new members. But we have to also know what type of members we want, and not try to be all things to all chasers or chaser fanboys.

 

[Warren Faidley]

Ironic that the original pioneers Dan listed (who used to be the “veterans,” and inspired those of us who are now veterans ourselves) don’t show up here. They are the ones I think we’d like to get back on here, not the “masses” that are on SM, many of which may like looking at pictures or videos but couldn’t care less about detailed chase reports, forecasts, or the science generally. Bigger is not always better. It would be nice to grow the community, but we have to define what that community is, and not look for numbers just for their own sake, at the expense of ruining the neighborhood.

I've always felt that many of the so-called "Veterans" are partially responsible for the current storm chasing lunacy. When I was chasing, they called me out (or worse) when I did anything improper -- often when I was completely innocent. It seems they totally cowered in the corner when the new concept of "let's get close and die," chasing became popular, along with other imbecilic behavior.

 

[Jason N]

Our attention spans, and even our underlying motivations and the shape of our engagement with various beloved activities, have been fundamentally rewired for the worse.

I've said this very thing and I definitely believe it's true, even without specific psychological evidence papers pointing to it.

 

[JamesCaruso]

I've said this very thing and I definitely believe it's true, even without specific psychological evidence papers pointing to it.

Jason, there is evidence of it in brain science - here is an interesting book that I read a few years ago:

The Shallows: What the Internet is doing to our brains - by Nicholas Carr

 

[Camden Scobey]

I have been waiting a year or two for the right time to post. And I think that I might add value here. Keep in mind everything I say is just how I see things. I also speak in generalities way too much. If you are offended by something I say, you probably aren't the target of my criticism.

I started chasing in 2020, but it was whenever I could get someone to let me borrow their car. I was still in college then. It was maybe no more than two or three times per year until 2023 after I got a real job. In college I studied aerospace engineering for a few years and then one year of meteorology. Never had a passion to actually finish aerospace and I wanted to work and earn my own living. I did meteorology just to learn the basics since I always had an interest in it from early childhood. I didn't want to pay for the full degree though since I didn't find interest in doing weather as a job. Just wanted to keep it as my major hobby.

I work in the aerospace industry anyway now. Basically doing the same stuff that others with degrees do. My path required getting ins with different companies and people which in hindsight was probably riskier than just getting the degree. But I do get on the job training whenever I want to learn something new. I can also get off work pretty easily to chase, just have to make up the hours within that same week. I'm completely satisfied with my situation.

Once I got a car last year, I started chasing. Only did it 4 or 5 times. I always made my own forecasts. I planned out specific storm scenarios and my escape routes, viewing areas I might stop at, and overall road surface types according to Google street view. I also mapped out gas stations and other things etc. My first chase of the year was the March 31 high risk event. I had my mind set on going to Iowa. But I was easily influenced at the time. Reed Timmer was going to Illinois and I though it would be best to just have my passenger follow his live stream and I'd drive in the general area of where he was. He's very good at marketing himself and his ideas, so I was sold. Completely wrong decision. Not only did we fail to see a tornado, but I had to drive through several large hail cores and actually had a tornado that I couldn't see, come less than a few hundred yards from the vehicle.

I came to the conclusion, especially after watching some other livestreams of his and other chasers, that it is far more entertaining to watch someone drive through a hail core and then see a tornado or no tornado at all than to stay out of precipitation miles away from a cell while you study its development for an hour. I think that it is intentional for a few live streamers to do stuff like core punching because it gets more views. After that day in March, I decided to never let a chaser live stream decide on where I was going. That decision paid off a few days later on April 4 when I stayed patient in Iowa while Reed and others went to Illinois again. I was able to see my first confirmed tornado. It was beautiful.

This may not seem like I have a point I'm trying to make but I do. The point is that I think that the majority of people who start storm chasing by following live streamers will fall out of the hobby after the first real storm. The second they realize it's serious and that hail and tornadoes can actually hurt them, they will leave. I found out a lot of the basics of chasing and forecasting from places like ST. Anyone who searches up "storm chasing forum" on Google will find ST at the top or near the top. People who are deeply serious about learning the craft will find and use Storm Track, not social media.

Just my .02. Sorry this post was lengthy. I hope it makes sense.

 

[Mike Smith]

One reason I would never attend this specific event is because some view it as a "fan-boy" summit. It's the same people speaking every year and some of the speakers have likely done more harm to the chasing community than good.

It was great when guys like Doswell was actively involved in chasing and speaking because he was not afraid to shake up the chasing community when idiots acted up. He was one of the few respected chasers who had the guts and clout to do it justice. He called me out several times during my "younger" years for idiotic behavior and it made me a better chaser.

I apologize for following up on this comment so late in the thread, but this is a pet-peeve of mine, too: Same speakers, over and over. Like Warren, I've stopped attending.

A suggestion: if we want different speakers and different topics, perhaps it is time to change up the venues. If DFW, OUN/OKC and DEN/Boulder are the only places we come back to time after time, what can we expect other than sameness?

What is wrong with Tulsa, Wichita, or KC?

I worked with Roger to bring Chasercon '19 to ICT. While there was some "sameness," we had a panel discussion between storm chasers, law enforcement and emergency managers ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gFaiBH670M ). It was a huge success. It ran over nearly 45 minutes (last of the day) because it was so interesting and everyone learned so much. All three television stations covered it and our chasing got favorable publicity. The Wichita Hyatt got rave reviews for the rooms and the quality of the catering and restaurant. In addition to storm chasers, we had meteorologists from Wichita TV, NWS across Kansas, AccuWeather, and meteorologists from McConnell AFB as registered attendees.

There are many meteorologists in Kansas City (with the meteorology program at KU nearby). I'm sure there is plenty we could learn some of them plus I'm certain many mets in that area would attend to help make the events (whatever it might be) a financial success.

My point is this: if we want to truly learn, gain new ideas, and "freshen" these conferences, one of the thing that needs to change are the venues as well as the speakers and topics.

 

[Andy Wehrle]

I have been waiting a year or two for the right time to post. And I think that I might add value here. Keep in mind everything I say is just how I see things. I also speak in generalities way too much. If you are offended by something I say, you probably aren't the target of my criticism.

I started chasing in 2020, but it was whenever I could get someone to let me borrow their car. I was still in college then. It was maybe no more than two or three times per year until 2023 after I got a real job. In college I studied aerospace engineering for a few years and then one year of meteorology. Never had a passion to actually finish aerospace and I wanted to work and earn my own living. I did meteorology just to learn the basics since I always had an interest in it from early childhood. I didn't want to pay for the full degree though since I didn't find interest in doing weather as a job. Just wanted to keep it as my major hobby.

I work in the aerospace industry anyway now. Basically doing the same stuff that others with degrees do. My path required getting ins with different companies and people which in hindsight was probably riskier than just getting the degree. But I do get on the job training whenever I want to learn something new. I can also get off work pretty easily to chase, just have to make up the hours within that same week. I'm completely satisfied with my situation.

Once I got a car last year, I started chasing. Only did it 4 or 5 times. I always made my own forecasts. I planned out specific storm scenarios and my escape routes, viewing areas I might stop at, and overall road surface types according to Google street view. I also mapped out gas stations and other things etc. My first chase of the year was the March 31 high risk event. I had my mind set on going to Iowa. But I was easily influenced at the time. Reed Timmer was going to Illinois and I though it would be best to just have my passenger follow his live stream and I'd drive in the general area of where he was. He's very good at marketing himself and his ideas, so I was sold. Completely wrong decision. Not only did we fail to see a tornado, but I had to drive through several large hail cores and actually had a tornado that I couldn't see, come less than a few hundred yards from the vehicle.

I came to the conclusion, especially after watching some other livestreams of his and other chasers, that it is far more entertaining to watch someone drive through a hail core and then see a tornado or no tornado at all than to stay out of precipitation miles away from a cell while you study its development for an hour. I think that it is intentional for a few live streamers to do stuff like core punching because it gets more views. After that day in March, I decided to never let a chaser live stream decide on where I was going. That decision paid off a few days later on April 4 when I stayed patient in Iowa while Reed and others went to Illinois again. I was able to see my first confirmed tornado. It was beautiful.

This may not seem like I have a point I'm trying to make but I do. The point is that I think that the majority of people who start storm chasing by following live streamers will fall out of the hobby after the first real storm. The second they realize it's serious and that hail and tornadoes can actually hurt them, they will leave. I found out a lot of the basics of chasing and forecasting from places like ST. Anyone who searches up "storm chasing forum" on Google will find ST at the top or near the top. People who are deeply serious about learning the craft will find and use Storm Track, not social media.

Just my .02. Sorry this post was lengthy. I hope it makes sense.

You and I flip-flopped on those 2 events (I scored on 3/31 and busted 4/4). Following Reed is a good way to get yourself killed, glad you found that out before anything worse happened.

 

[Jason N]

@Camden Scobey
I think several agree with you in principle.... I've seen RT bust so many times it's not even funny, and he certainly wins more than his fair share to, but what is the definition of "winning" or "success" in chasing. (Likes, $$, fame at elevated risk for self and others?) or (growth, knowledge, pleasure while driving to your own tune). Personally, I will take the latter all the time. Tornado counts aren't a score board of success, intelligence, or group seniority if the manner in which you obtain it is hyper risky (people's definitions of it vary). I'd personally rather fail at seeing a tornado, be safe, learn, and see the joys of the hunt perceived through the destinations, the views, process improvement, develop skills and techniques or methods, while keeping it simple, safe, and not over complicate it. Even the most seasoned chasers get it wrong. Being your own chaser affords you the ability to compare notes with others on here, or out in the field, and you'll pick up stuff or omit it if it's stupid or useless to what you're after.

That Said, everyone who does it has a motive, and someone is bound to criticize motives here and there just because we have to freedom to go out and be stupid while streaming lol. If or when I know RT or a few others are near, I drive elsewhere, not because of him/them per say, but because of the hoards that sometimes follow. The Chaser Hoard is real, I've witnessed it more times than I care to remember, oddly enough, Vortex and DOW drew in sooo many inexperienced flash mob chasers on a few occasions it was crazy ( ohh THOSE guys are EXPERTS! let's hang with them) needless to say they have a JOB and you are getting in the way of it!.... so, I have learned to walk away and fast from dense clusters of chasers and outsmart and out speed the group just by better planning. Develop a what you will or won't chase plan and stick to it.

--Getting off topic a bit here--
One of the videos I watch over and over again is El Reno Lessons Learned. The amount of Luck that more people weren't killed that day astounds me, purely on the basis of roads packed with traffic, time of day(rush hour), the extensive flooding from previous days storms to. simply amazing. and again, why I won't go after storms in certain areas unless I know the conditions prior to the day I'm choosing to go, routes, escapes, etc.

but to bring it back into this topic: was social media was even considered as a factor that day (positive or negative?)

 

[Camden Scobey]

but to bring it back into this topic: was social media was even considered as a factor that day (positive or negative?)

I agree with all of what you said. That's a good point you make also, on what defines success in a chase. For me it is learning something new and making it back without damaging my car too much. This year I have set aside money to just rent cars and take the damage coverage, so now success will be making it back safely and learning something new during the chase.

For social media on that day... it was considered a factor. And it was negative in every way. I had everything planned out in a completely different state. But then allowed myself to be swayed like that, to a place I did zero research on, or the road conditions, or what areas had significant ridges with tree cover etc. Completely my fault, but hey, you have to learn sometime. I got incredibly lucky.

 

[Warren Faidley]

I wonder if "extreme animal handling" discussion groups and social discussed Steve Irwin ad nauseam before he finally bit the big one?

 

[Jason N]

If you bump up against high risk long enough, it's going to bump back at a time of its own choosing.