Stronger NWS wording needed for freezing rain

[Dan Robinson]

Again, I'm going just by the numbers. From news articles alone I've found 244 documented deaths since October, most of those in the midwest and a large percentage of those from freezing rain. TV may very well be doing what they can, and my post here is no way a slam on either the media or the NWS. I just think that's a pretty high number for a weather-related hazard and wonder what can be done (if anything).

I know I've personally seen many instances where the smaller events go unnoticed by everyone. Even more so when I'm the only one who apparently knows about it and I'm out in the middle of the event watching oblivious drivers heading for black ice at 70mph. The bigger events aren't the problem - those get plenty of coverage. It's the light events that sneak in and cause the biggest 'outbreaks'. Those are the ones that get the last-minute advisory that goes unnoticed until half of a state is shut down with crashes. It's those cases that I think there is room for the most improvement.

I do appreciate the insight and debate!

 

[Steve Miller]

"Freezing Rain EMERGENCY" would be strong enough wording and NWS seems to like to dramatize marginal situations of late. Seems to be a perfect fit to me.

 

[Chris Allington]

"Freezing Rain EMERGENCY" would be strong enough wording and NWS seems to like to dramatize marginal situations of late. Seems to be a perfect fit to me.

Or they could just issue the current Ice Storm Warnings for lower end events... isn't the criteria now like .5 inches of ice accrual. Why not lower it to .2 & > events or something since that is a fairly solid glaze on everything. Much lower than that and it seems like the accrual on surfaces is rather inconsistent and doesn't really warrant anything more than a Winter Weather Advisory.

 

[Andrew Ryan]

I liked the wording "black ice warning." It certainly got my attention the first time I read it. But the problem with it is that black ice can occur in different ways. It can occur during an ice storm or after rain when the temperatures dip below freezing. I think that may become confusing. But I like that wording regardless.

 

[mikegeukes]

Besides freezing rain and freezing drizzle. I have seen black ice with windy conditions with snow, especially a light snowfall and lake effect. moisture refreezing on the roads, from sleet, rain, melted snow. Bridges and overpasses are real problem with black ice, then again you usually have signs saying Watch for Ice.

The media usually does a good job telling the public, watch for icy road conditions.

 

[Jim Saueressig]

Not to venture off-topic, but many offices (Michigan in particular) are adding special EAS phrases to SVR's with extreme winds. NWS HQ will not allow a "derecho" type warning because that would decrease the usefulness of "regular" SVR warnings.

I know that adding extras will cause people to not pay attention to what they already have but I will often sleep through a severe as will many others but If I know its going to be extreme winds I will usually take a few extra precautions and I think the public would as well.

 

[Paul Hadfield]

I'm with Dan on this one, we had an incident on December 08 that clearly should've gotten more attention as well as prompted a school delay but didn't and as result, many paid the price; all because of a little shower lifting in advance of a warm front. Adults are one thing, we seem to think we are invincible but it's a real problem when buses with kids are out in this garbage.

 

[Tom Van Kuiken]

Freezing rain is certainly a know event here in Michigan. If it enters the forecast my wife freeks out and contemplates changing her plans. My son jumps for joy as he thinks school will be cancelled. The word is the warning.

 

[Jason Boggs]

I don't have a whole lot to say about this topic really. I guess I will say that the NWS or whatever outlet that gives the warning can only do so much. If I told you that a bee just landed on your shoulder, you can either protect yourself from a sting, or keep doing what you were doing and let it go right down you collar. Ok, that was a bad analogy, but you get the point.

I guess my biggest point here is, you can give warnings until you're blue in the face, but it's ultimately up to the public how serious they take the warning.

 

[Angie Norris]

As easy as it is to think that if NWS issues a freezing rain warning (which does sound like a good idea), and if the local media pushes the event, that's not going to take care of the problem. It all comes down to personal responsibility. The responsible person will asses the situation (raining or even "just drizzling", the temperature is below freezing, that means there could be ice, I'd better slow down) and respond appropriately, and the irresponsible person will disregard the situation, assume the laws of physics do not apply to them as they drive their truck, SUV, sports car well over the speed limit (heavy truck and/or 4 wheel drive does NOT equal traction contrary to popular belief) and then end up on the news.

It's pretty much like flash flooding...as much as we push "turn around, don't drown", there's always some person who thinks the situation does not apply to them and ends up on the news and/or in the obituary section.

 

[Matthew Harding]

I completely agree with Jason. The entire premise of the warning system is to give the public-at-large the information and a recommendation of what they can do to protect themselves in all types of severe weather. What the public does with that information once it is dispersed is entirely up to them. I believe that the NWS shouldn't step up their verbage unless its a situation where the probability for mass casualties are high. If they issued a warning for every little thing, then they just look like Chicken Little and soon nobody is going to listen to them or the media as a whole.

 

[rdale]

I'm with Dan on this one, we had an incident on December 08 that clearly should've gotten more attention as well as prompted a school delay but didn't and as result, many paid the price; all because of a little shower lifting in advance of a warm front.

I guess I still don't see the point of the "enhanced warning"? I assume for this event the meteorologists on TV said "the shower will cause ice on the roads." You are saying had they went with "the shower will cause ice on the roads, I am issuing a black ice warning" then people would have responded different?

Many outlets don't use any of the NWS winter warnings since they just cause confusion, so I don't see how NWS issuing another type of winter warning will even get to most people. Remember we here are weather-weenies. We know a Winter Storm Watch from a Winter Weather Advisory. Joe Public does not...

 

[Jesse Risley]

I really don't believe that enacting more strongly worded warnings will compel the public to take additional precautions (i.e. the debate over tornado emergency wording). I say just leave the current system alone and, if anything needs to be done, focus more on education and precautionary measures.

On a side note, I don't believe the NWS should become overly involved in focusing specifically on road hazards. While I understand that they do forecast and warn for weather hazards that may interrupt travel, they are not the DOT. I've found that creating more bureaucratic regulations, rules and/or warnings rarely encourages more personal accountability.

 

[Paul Hadfield]

It's pretty much like flash flooding...as much as we push "turn around, don't drown", there's always some person who thinks the situation does not apply to them and ends up on the news and/or in the obituary section.

True, you can't save everyone but there are far fewer people willing to take the risk because of it. If the campaign is going to work, it needs to be simple, catchy and something Dave Schwartz might've had fun with...

"Black Ice... It's not nice"

or maybe

"When it's 32 or lower, Please drive slower"

you get the idea

 

[Paul Hadfield]

I guess I still don't see the point of the "enhanced warning"? I assume for this event the meteorologists on TV said "the shower will cause ice on the roads." You are saying had they went with "the shower will cause ice on the roads, I am issuing a black ice warning" then people would have responded different?

Possibly, hopefully... there really is no way of knowing at this point but in any event, school buses should be kept in. We equip them with high-tech lights and gadgets yet send them out in the worst imaginable driving conditions with our kids inside..? makes no sense to me.

Many outlets don't use any of the NWS winter warnings since they just cause confusion, so I don't see how NWS issuing another type of winter warning will even get to most people. Remember we here are weather-weenies. We know a Winter Storm Watch from a Winter Weather Advisory. Joe Public does not...

Very true... Scanners on the other hand don't lie so if as an event is unfolding and numerous police, fire and EMT responders are out assisting wrecks, perhaps the civil alert system be activated so to broadcast immediate warning via tv, radio and internet? Gets me to thinking now if this issue might be in line more as an EMA disaster response initiative instead of NWS responsibility?