Storm Chasing: Ethics and Safety

[Rob H]

Let's just be honest about this, the king you allude to is Reed Timmer. So let's say everyone on StormTrack condemns him publicly - then what? That doesn't stop the guy in my original post that probably doesn't like Reed anyways. "Storm Chasers" is off the air, plenty of influential people condemn Reed (http://cadiiitalk.blogspot.com/2011/05/growing-sense-of-revulsion.html), and the 24/7 news cycle still only buys extreme footage. Reed has 248,000 fans on Facebook that literally paid him $200,000 this year to keep doing what he's doing. So even if he was the problem, and I'm not saying he is, why is there any reason for hundreds of thousands of people to listen to anything we say?

It's really easy to define the problem and some of the potential causes, but I haven't seen anyone come forward with a realistic way to make things better.

If you are going chasing with a group, please, please, please look at whoever is "leading" your team. The worst thing an officer can do in firefighting is lose his composure. When this happens, they lose their ability to make sound and logical decisions and they begin using emotion and their guide. They amps up the fellow firefighters and have an entire crew who does not recognize simple clues that could save them. Many firefighter deaths could have been avoided if there was an experienced and competent officer.
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Teams are one of the problems. Why do you need a "team" to chase? Make a logo, sell some shirts, see some 'naders, pimp your brand? There's an awful lot of ego in this hobby, and not many people willing to admit that they really, really care what other chasers and groupies think of them.

 

[Kathryn Crowe]

I have seen lots of very articulately expressed statements on what has gone wrong with chasing in the last few years, but I would like to to see more descriptions of everyone's opinions on how it should operate instead, i.e:

Is chasing for simple photography purposes ethically wrong with the new problems of chaser convergence? With this new issue, what are ethical reasons to chase?
For those who are chasing to provide better spotter information to NWS/media, how should responsible live streaming be conducted?
Should we become better organized? For instance instead of individualistic effort, could we work together to provide a better network of observations?
Could we work together to develop cheap. easily reproducible instrumentation for use by chasers that could report back to a single database that is accessible by research teams and thus be further scientific research with no profit to ourselves?

So, what should we be? What can we do to be better? What can we do to further the scientific aspects?

 

[Bob Hartig]

Cross-posting the following also from B&G.

The topic of chaser safety and ethics has been around for a long time, and with the advent of so-called "extreme" chasing--a media coinage that is sheer marketing, instilling and then capitalizing on viewers' thirst for sensationalism--the result has been to separate chasers into two factions trading salvos from their entrenchments. It's the Hatfields and the McCoys calling each other either idiots or wusses, depending. That, to me, is what gets old. Is that really what storm chasing has come to?

I saw the video Rob refers to, and in light of it, I think it's wise for each of us to bear two things in mind:

1. You're not bulletproof. And the argument, "I haven't gotten killed yet," is not exactly convincing. It ends when you get killed. But losing a limb or getting paralyzed by a traumatic head injury, or subjecting your chase partner to same, is probably just as effective a counterargument. The problem is, it's one that stays with you the rest of your life.

2. That said, stuff happens to the best, the wisest, the most experienced, the most knowledgeable, and the most cautious of us. It just does. You can be the most safety-conscious of chasers and still find yourself suddenly caught with your pants down. The only 100 percent safe way to chase storms is not to chase them.

These are two realities of chasing storms. But neither of them is likely to persuade anyone on either side of the safety/ethics debate So ultimately, the issue, as has often been stated, remains a personal one. How are YOU going to chase--and perhaps even more importantly, why are you chasing? What drives you? When I ask myself those questions, I find a mix of motives, some of which I don't like and which aren't the ones I started with seventeen years ago. These past two weeks--really, the last two years--are causing me to do some soul-searching.

 

[Warren Faidley]

Let's just be honest about this, the king you allude to is Reed Timmer. So let's say everyone on StormTrack condemns him publicly - then what? That doesn't stop the guy in my original post that probably doesn't like Reed anyways. "Storm Chasers" is off the air, plenty of influential people condemn Reed (http://cadiiitalk.blogspot.com/2011/05/growing-sense-of-revulsion.html), and the 24/7 news cycle still only buys extreme footage. Reed has 248,000 fans on Facebook that literally paid him $200,000 this year to keep doing what he's doing. So even if he was the problem, and I'm not saying he is, why is there any reason for hundreds of thousands of people to listen to anything we say?

You make good points and I doubt nothing will change.

My journalistic instincts tell me the flood gates are open and we will begin to see chasers killed on a regular basis. Getting close will become Mad Max entertainment. It will survive like scuba diving and sky diving. A certain number of deaths will be accepted as part of the game.

W.

 

[Mike Johnston]

The influence of the media can't be over-stated enough. That's the status quo these days and, unfortunately, the media acts as the moral compass for so many. Last week, when TWC had Cantore tagging along with Timmer, it was basically an endorsement of Timmer's methods. I hope with the embarrassment of Mike Bettes's little ride in the air, TWC will step back and reconsider it's lurch toward this torn porn. And, I'm sick and tired of every chaser out there, when interviewed by the media, claiming they're doing it for purely scientific and public safety reasons. Some do, but it's really not the majority - hell, I doubt most chasers even carry along the most basic instruments like barometers, let alone actually record observations and forward them to the NSSL.

 

[Jeff Wright]

I'm surprised I haven't seen folks on jet-skis trying to get in Florida waterspouts. Less debris, no traffic--no getting in the way of emergency services, etc.

That wouldn't endanger anywhere near as many folks, especially if you used this: http://tech.spotcoolstuff.com/boat-watercraft/dolphin-seabreacher

Dive under the funnel wall, and pop up in the eye and film straight up.

If you want a pristine image of just a clean condensation funnel itself, instead of a murky mess--the Joe Golden route would seem a better way to go...

Lastly, for folks with a little money, a roll cage may need to be looked into.

Most chasers in the plains are away from most sources of debris, as would be expected in lonesome roads, so one doesn't need armor perhaps as much as a roll cage.

 

[Stan Rose]

Rob Hurkes, you're right...and if you noticed I provoked some of those responses to the video. I deleted my comments because 1) they won't change anything 2) Ive seen far worse offendors 3) I'm not without sin...etc

Warren--funny you mention 'Into Thin Air' since i just referenced it in my response to the original MISC thread before reading your comment here. I think it's a very good analogy--and it tells us that things are going to get much worse, although there is room for some hope. I applaud you for being one of the few well known chasers to take a stand publicly--if more veteran chasers would do so i think it would go a long way towards curbing some of the misguided 'enthusiasm' of the newer crop of chasers. I don't quite agree with you on those specific chasers, but you don't deserve hate mail for speaking your mind--no one does.

 

[Eric Matthews]

Rob, I agree with much of what you said. I don't believe we can change a certain few individuals. One of the truths in life is that whatever gets recognized and rewarded gets repeated. I will not buy any product that is endorsed by those who I believe are acting irresponsibly. I also send letters to the companies that hire such people. It' not a big hit on them, but it's a small thing I can do.

I think we need to review what went right and what went wrong during each and every chase. We can develop a clear roadmap for "safe" (relative term) chasing behaviors and positions. By doing so, we help ensure those new to chasing and those with limted experience are making informed and educated choices. It's the Lessons Learned Information Sharing philosophy that will bring about "Best Practices".

I believe we have an obligation to learn more about tornado behavior and to teach each other how to make educated decisions. For decades we have had conversations about the eventual certainty that chasers will be killed. Sadly it has happened and it will happen again, I have no doubt.

I pray no one ever dies chasing again, but if it happens, I'd like to be sure the only people are those who choose to act carelessly and wrecklessly and not those who are inexperienced or uneducated.

Let's each do our small part to help. I'd like to see the Mods open a new forum called "Close Calls: Lessons Learned & Informaion Sharing". Only comment on your own decisions and situations. Share what you learned, what you hope others will take from it, and what you will do differently next time.

 

[STexan]

I think many in the "chaser community" continue to lie to themselves and say "we need the research and eye-witness reporting". Fact is, we don't. You can't convince me we are learning things today that will help improve future forecasts ... that we don't already know. In storm forecasting, there are certain givens, and certain random and unpredictable realities. The givens are understood and the randomness is just that and there is nothing you can do about that aspect to stay ahead of the curve. I say all this to say that the chasing world has evolved into something else, and if we can't be honest about the realities, we can't expect any change. Sure, a few are motivated by purely scientific or purely stationary "spotter" oriented, but they are a small minority any more.

People engage in a variety of dangerous pursuits for a variety of reasons. But until you're willing to strip citizens of their freedoms to be themselves, you're going to have to learn to accept crap is going to happen. Don't take others' poor decisions and/or mistakes personally. The 'thrill-seekers" have just as much right to be out there in front of major cells as the "information gatherers" do ... perhaps more so given the fact there is not much we don't already know about tornadoes and their life-cycles and what breeds them. We climb peaks, we race cars and motorcycles, we invest in markets, we surf, we swim with sharks, we dive to great depths, we rock climb, and we chase storms. But again I say, until we can be honest about the situation, this entire conversation is an exercise in futility. Let the flame responses begin

 

[Warren Faidley]

The influence of the media can't be over-stated enough. That's the status quo these days and, unfortunately, the media acts as the moral compass for so many. Last week, when TWC had Cantore tagging along with Timmer, it was basically an endorsement of Timmer's methods. I hope with the embarrassment of Mike Bettes's little ride in the air, TWC will step back and reconsider it's lurch toward this torn porn. And, I'm sick and tired of every chaser out there, when interviewed by the media, claiming they're doing it for purely scientific and public safety reasons. Some do, but it's really not the majority - hell, I doubt most chasers even carry along the most basic instruments like barometers, let alone actually record observations and forward them to the NSSL.

Mike, you nailed it 100%.

It's about balance.

I have nothing personal against Timmer. He can chase however he wants. The problem is with the media. For the past 7-8 years they have completely forgot how 99% of us chase.

Warren

 

[Jack Law]

First post. Lifelong Kansan, never gotten closer and often driven out of the way. Still seen plenty of neat stuff. Your mileage may vary.

This will end b/c the KS or OK legislature, working with law enforcement, will prohibit it. Yes, I've seen these debates before and know the arguments of those crying 'freedom' and 'but you can't enforce it'!!!

Sure you can. How many $10,000 fines for 'interfering' when not permitted for research would it take? The evidence is all over the internets weekly this time of year. Easy fix for the 99% of the population that doesn't chase, and I guarantee law enforcement is already on board.

 

[Derek Weston]

I think many in the "chaser community" continue to lie to themselves and say "we need the research and eye-witness reporting". Fact is, we don't. You can't convince me we are learning things today that will help improve future forecasts ... that we don't already know. In storm forecasting, there are certain givens, and certain random and unpredictable realities. The givens are understood and the randomness is just that and there is nothing you can do about that aspect to stay ahead of the curve. I say all this to say that the chasing world has evolved into something else, and if we can't be honest about the realities, we can't expect any change. Sure, a few are motivated by purely scientific or purely stationary "spotter" oriented, but they are a small minority any more.

People engage in a variety of dangerous pursuits for a variety of reasons. But until you're willing to strip citizens of their freedoms to be themselves, you're going to have to learn to accept crap is going to happen. Don't take others' poor decisions and/or mistakes personally. The 'thrill-seekers" have just as much right to be out there in front of major cells as the "information gatherers" do ... perhaps more so given the fact there is not much we don't already know about tornadoes and their life-cycles and what breeds them. We climb peaks, we race cars and motorcycles, we invest in markets, we surf, we swim with sharks, we dive to great depths, we rock climb, and we chase storms. But again I say, until we can be honest about the situation, this entire conversation is an exercise in futility. Let the flame responses begin

Lot of truth in this. Experiencing the spectacle of the supercell thunderstorm is in itself sufficient justification. No need to invoke science, research, or saving lives as a cause. As long as you're not harming others, who cares. Really that simple.

 

[Warren Faidley]

I spoke to a Washington, DC based reporter yesterday who says an Oklahoma Senator or Representative is proposing a bill similar to "stupid motorist" and "hurricane evacuation" laws that fine and charge a person for expenses if they have to be "rescued out of gross negligence." I am assuming any law would include "driving too close to a tornado" e.g., similar to crossing barricades near a flooded area. I'm also guessing such laws would allow criminal actions if first responders are injured.

The world of chasing will change in some regards I suspect.

W.

 

[A.Theunissen]

They are adults, if someone wants to get close to a tornado(alone) and risk everything, it's his problem. What I don't like is when there's 3-4+ people in a car and the guy passenger seat doesn't know what is doing. And I'm not talking about Samaras here,...

Someday, you will see someone with a live stream getting picked up and thrown by a tornado, LIVE.

In the word stormchaser, there is the term ''chaser'', and when you go chasing, you're not supposed to be the one chased. Makes no sense. The TIV or Dominator can withstand some tornadoes, but they're not indestructible.

 

[William Monfredo]

Safety point: People don't NEED to hang out under a huge wall cloud or bowl-shaped lowering, especially in PDS watches. Vortex breakdowns into several smaller funnels can later max out to a wedge. You don't need to be a Monday quarterback to know that, because it's all happened before.