Should the terms waterspout, landspout etc be dropped?

[Peter Kirk]

It was certainly mentioned that night yes Martin. Seems whenever you go out you find something though.

 

[Gerard Jebaily]

ive seen many tornadoes and many waterspouts. I can say that there are many waterspouts that look like rope tornadoes, and waterspouds that look like land spouts. So we should almost have a "waterspout" and a "waternado" to distinguish.

 

[rdale]

We do - waterspout is a fair weather spout, tornadic waterspout (or tornado over water) is the acceptable version of your "waternado."

 

[Nigel Bolton]

However, it has to be said that "Waternado" is the best description of a tornado over a lake or ocean. It does exactly what it says on the tin.

N.

 

[Danny Neal]

I honestly don't know why we need to combine tornadic waterspout into waternado. I also can't see how we can call it a "tornadic" waterspout if some of us are saying a waterspout IS a tornado....kind of a double standard. To each his own! Call it what you want, I know I usually use the "tornado over water" terminology instead of waterspout on synoptic scale storm. There really is no wrong answer here.......its basically ones opinion, thoughts, and hypothesis on a very interesting topic.

 

[Martin Kucera]

Waternado . They also used to be officialy called "Waterdevils" .
Term "Waterspout" has been used since 1800s.

 

[Martin North]

Waternado . They also used to be officialy called "Waterdevils" .
Term "Waterspout" has been used since 1800s.

Martin

This exact same thread is at 142 pages on UKww...!

 

[Willie Dines]

Hi Willie

Two stone houses were badly damaged and a shipping yard. But, yes, most damage was rural in this case.

I also covered TV for the Rasharkin and Aghalee (the other one) tornadoes.

Ahh yes , I vaguely remember the other 2 reports as well, again you did a great job with the interviews

It's been generally quiet though this year, there haven't been that many thunderstorms in general, let alone tornadoes, but that's how it goes I guess

What was the damage rating for the latest Aghalee tornado?.... by the sounds of it, it would be a good was up there on the TORRO scale, about a T5/6 or so, but then again, with there only being 2 structres damaged, it may not have been easy to ellaborate on this

Willie

 

[Martin North]

Willie...it moved whole shipping containers full of steel across a transport yard. Telegraph poles were snapped in three places (not just at the base where you'd expect, and scattered in severel directions. Debris was driven through stone walls and roofs (via lofts) into living quarters (these properties not actually hit by the tornado). I've a good eye for tree damage...and in the areas of higher tornado strength large trees were snapped at the truck with whole width of the vortex (I think it was around 150 yards wide) completely obliterated.

When it happened, the residents who saw it called the Met Office and someone there in turn contacted me. I was actually out at the time photographing the situation and taking measurements.

I've some great photo's from that day. The tornado at Aghalee was borderline EF1/2 (T2) and gathered strength as it went from there.

 

[Nigel Bolton]

Nutts Corner. Remember it well Martin. Was it ever proven as the strongest NI tornado under investigation?

N.

 

[Martin North]

Yes, strongest and longest tracked Irish tornado in over 100 years.

It is believed it originally came off Lough Neagh as a Waterspout no-less....at Gawleys Gate. Funnily enough almost at the same point the 2005 Aghalee/Gawleys Gate tornado came off the Lake as a Waterspout.

Two diffent events is their nature too. 2005 was a CZT and this most recent one was defo from a Meso on the TEC...

 

[Paul Knightley]

There have been some salient points raised recently, in keeping with my views on the subject.

A tornado is a violently rotating column of air pendant from a cumuliform cloud and in contact with the surface - it matters not one ounce what type of surface it is. What matters much more are the dynamics which generated the tornado. That's the important part, and the part which is studied, not the irrelevance of the surface it happens to be passing over.

The obvious dichotomy of supercell vs non-supercell tornado is somewhat blurred as a number of non-supercell tornadoes (certainly in the UK) do not form in slack flow conditions with a local convergence zone, but as has been alluded to, along surging ana-type cold fronts. However, there may be some similarities as vortex sheet roll up may be present in both cases.

Furthermore, could this kind of roll-up occur along RFDs and then help the mid-level mesocyclone develop down to the surface in supercells? If so, then there are similarities in formation between supercell and non-supercell type tornadoes.

So perhaps the tornado itself is not what needs to be compartmentalised - the parent storm is.

 

[Martin North]

I sometimes think you are not seeing the wood for the trees in this Paul.

No one is disputing how, why or what forms the tornado. The name of Waterspout is simple, well recognised jargon for a tornado which is occurring over water.

In one word...the threat is largely summarised in that 'Waterspout' means the tornado is over water and is a threat to maritime (include the coast), nautical or maybe even riparian interests.

Btw...your staying power in the face of adversity (on this subject) is admirable...

 

[Willie Dines]

Yes, strongest and longest tracked Irish tornado in over 100 years.

It is believed it originally came off Lough Neagh as a Waterspout no-less....at Gawleys Gate. Funnily enough almost at the same point the 2005 Aghalee/Gawleys Gate tornado came off the Lake as a Waterspout.

Two diffent events is their nature too. 2005 was a CZT and this most recent one was defo from a Meso on the TEC...

SWEEEEET

There was a small LP supercell that passed through here last year, I can't remember the date, but I'll check the date on my camcorder footage, (I made a point of grabbing the camcorder that day) I was about 2.5 miles South of the storm, (it passed just off the Bangor/Holywood coastline) and to the WNW of me was a very distinct wall cloud, and looked like it was beginning to form a funnel, but I suspect that what I did see, was most likely some scud floating around.

It would be nice to get a decent storm in around this area to catch on video, before the year is out, but I'm not holding my breath lol

Willie

If you're on about the 30th July...it was nearer an HP than an LP. You should have seen the rain core over Belfast City itself...

I have lots of photo's. I was in position to see the Meso in it's fully glory including funnel etc.

 

[Paul Sherman]

http://www.stormtrack.org/archive/1049.htm

Has this been put into this thread yet ??

Have not got the time to go through all the pages in this thread to find out and certainly cannot go through the hundreds of pages on Ukww

Paul Sherman