Scanners. Digital vs. Analog.

[fplowman]

I used to be a BIG scanner enthusiast. I had the Uniden BC200 and 890. Things have seemed to change in the scanner world. It seems you need an engineering degree to understand all of the settings and how to program a radio these days.

Does anyone here have any experience with the APCO 25 feature of scanning?
Are there alot of places and officials in our chasing areas known to be using APCO25? I have my eye on the BCD996T but its expensive. Anyone have any info? Im unsure if I need the digital services.????

 

[John Diel]

Fred,

After looking this up, APCO-25 is more a Standard for bandwidth and digital communications rather than a feature. In reality, how many departments in your area have spent the money to go to the digital trunking systems based on the APCO-25 standard? Probably not many.

I've got a RS Pro-2096 and do't even look at this standard. Most of the stuff north of me in Kansas is UHF trunked on the statewide net and most of North Central Oklahoma is still analog VHF and not looking to change any time soon.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I have two BCD996Ts and they are great scanners. The state of IL is currently migrating to a huge statewide APCO 25 digital trunking system called STARCOM 21. As the future progresses you will continue to see more and more systems migrate to digital modes, but one caveat before you get too excited.

Digital technology is on the rise in the communications world, but the public safety agencies are increasingly eying digitally encrypted systems as the encryption technology become cheaper and more efficient. There are plenty of operations (even the feds) that are running digital as we write here, but not as many are currently encrypted. The scanning hobby may likely be nearly nonexistent in many areas of the country as far as public safety communications are concerned in the next ten to twenty years.

Here is the problem for scannists as far an encryption is concerned. Unlike bands above 500 MHz and trunked systems were viewed twenty years ago, it is highly unlikely that you will ever see a scanner that can monitor encrypted systems.

All technical jargon and discussions aside, unless you are a system user (i.e. LEO), it is illegal to own or possess any equipment that can monitor encrypted systems. There will never be a scanner that can decode encrypted signals unless the law is changed and it's even illegal to own or possess a radio capable of operating on these systems unless you have permission from said agency. More and more public safety agencies are eying digital systems because they can outperform many analog systems on the market. Encryption is viewed as a means to ensure officer safety and protect what they believe are vital communications from falling into the wrong hands. Whether or not many departments are switching to digitally encrypted systems solely to get away from scanner listerns is a matter of debate.

With all of this being said, the 996 is a great scanner that has many advanced features. However, I expect this scanner and many of its brethren to slowly become useless over the next several decades as more and more communications systems migrate to the "unmonitorable" classification.

With the exception of major metropolitan areas and some state agencies, there are not many rural areas (prime chasing territory) that currently use APCO 25. However, this is likely to change, albeit slowly and painstakingly at best.

For more information, see the following threads at RR:
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71368

http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71187

http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71714

 

[Jim Hunt]

A quick check of the database at RR shows that Kansas Highway Patrol is moving to the new APCO-25 system shortly as they finish the build out, testing, and the new money is available after July 1.

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&sid=4390

The 996 is an excellent scanner and I love mine. It is a little more complex to program but in all honesty, spend a few extra dollars and get the Butel software and buy a membership at RR to download the information directly from the database. It is a breeze to do that.

Also, you will really like the GPS scanning feature which can lock/unlock systems as you travel around. I use the Garmin GPS 18 OEM with the serial connection with my 996. It is sweet.

Here is my mobile set up. I had the BCT15 in the truck when I took the photos but moved the BCD996T out in its place shortly afterwards. I also have a Yaesu dual receive 4 band radio.

 

[Anthony Silver]

Digital Scanners are a big pain in the butt to program if you've never dealt with one. I have a Uniden BC296D and a Uniden BC250D, and I about drove myself nuts trying to set the things up when I first got them! I've heard very good things about the BCD396T and the BCD996T, but the prices are extremely outrageous. I think the 996 has GPS capabilities, so it would definitely be ideal for storm chasing use.

Like others have said, more and more agencies will be implementing P25 digital systems within the coming years as the need for interoperability and voice security increases.

As far as our "chase areas" go (KS/MO/NE/IA/OK/TX), only a handful of agencies are currently operating in digital trunk mode. A few of those include Omaha, NE, St. Joseph, MO, Independence, MO, and Kansas Highway Patrol. Oklahoma City and San Antonio recently implemented 800 MHz trunked systems that are very unfriendly to scanner enthusiasts. Both systems use EDACS ProVoice, which cannot be monitored by ANY scanner currently on the market. Otherwise, everything else should be monitorable, provided they aren't using encryption. Some agencies, including Independence MO, are operating in the 700 MHz band, which is relatively new to the radio communications industry, and many other agencies will likely migrate to this band in the coming years.

If you live in an area that uses 700MHz trunking, there are only 2 scanners that will monitor that band-the Uniden BCD396T and the BCD996T, so if you absolutely have to monitor your local PD/FD-be prepared to fork over $550-$600 on your new toy.

 

[Anthony Silver]

"Digital Scanners are a big pain in the butt to operate and program if you're not familiar with them"

I disagree -- digital scanners operate no different than an analog scanner. You don't do a thing different when programming them, and they are all around $500 ($400 at Radio Shack when on sale.)

Well, when you compare the digital scanner with your no frills 40-channel conventional, non trunked scanner-the latter one is much easier to setup. With the conventional one, all you do is plug the frequency in and go.

With a trunked scanner, you program the frequencies, then you go through extra steps programming the system type, talkgroups, and what not-so yes, it can be complicated for someone if they have never used anything beyond a conventional scanner.

 

[rdale]

Gotcha - you're talking trunked vs conventional and yes that can take a little longer. But there's no difference in a digital vs analog scanner.

 

[John Erwin]

Gotcha - you're talking trunked vs conventional and yes that can take a little longer. But there's no difference in a digital vs analog scanner.

Seeing as many digital systems out there are also trunked (especially law enforcement, EMS and mil stuff), your point is moot. Many of the newer digital scanners also have a lot of features on them that may be somewhat unfamiliar to users of older scanner equipment; however with a bit of reading and some usage that changes pretty quick.

 

[Anthony Silver]

Gotcha - you're talking trunked vs conventional and yes that can take a little longer. But there's no difference in a digital vs analog scanner.

My bad...Sorry I didn't clarify that earlier. I went ahead and edited my original post to clear up any confusion.