Mike Hollingshead
Sorry if my post was flamish....I was actually typing it when you posted the warning. I was just trying to keep the flames neutral was all.....
Mike
Mike
Jason A.C. Brock
Plowman. Dont post your opinions on this site. I did so in the past as well and you only get chastized and ridiculed because you might think "outiside" th box.
If you thought your opinions would jsut be opinions and nothing would be siad abbout them or they wouldnt be analyzed with a fine toothed comb then you were wrong. How dare you think you can have an opinion that is anything different from the masters that be.
Im sure there are alot of people out there who think chasing period is stupid and crazy.
My advice to you is that if you havent chased for more than 20 yrs, havent posted 156,395 times in this forum and dont have the same ideas and opinions as 95% of others then dont bother posting at all....BTW I AM KIDDING.....I always gotta put that at the end for possible legal reasons......YA NEVER KNOW!
Welcome to Stormtrack Plowman! Newbies are welcome and there are a few of us that will take up for ya as long as you promise to keep educating yourself and being resposible and safe. In a way I guess ya just got the ST Newbie initiation.......
Happy Chasing
P.S. I am VERY glad Mr Vasquez posted what he did and when he did. I am very impressed and commend his efforts on making this forum fair and balanced and a place were necomers feel welcome and not shunned. Bravo Mr. Vasquez
If you thought your opinions would jsut be opinions and nothing would be siad abbout them or they wouldnt be analyzed with a fine toothed comb then you were wrong. How dare you think you can have an opinion that is anything different from the masters that be.
Im sure there are alot of people out there who think chasing period is stupid and crazy.
My advice to you is that if you havent chased for more than 20 yrs, havent posted 156,395 times in this forum and dont have the same ideas and opinions as 95% of others then dont bother posting at all....BTW I AM KIDDING.....I always gotta put that at the end for possible legal reasons......YA NEVER KNOW!
Welcome to Stormtrack Plowman! Newbies are welcome and there are a few of us that will take up for ya as long as you promise to keep educating yourself and being resposible and safe. In a way I guess ya just got the ST Newbie initiation.......
Happy Chasing
P.S. I am VERY glad Mr Vasquez posted what he did and when he did. I am very impressed and commend his efforts on making this forum fair and balanced and a place were necomers feel welcome and not shunned. Bravo Mr. Vasquez
mrobinson
Entirely different situation that I am positive had not crossed either of our minds when we left that morning. Tornado Attack goes out and plans to drive into one as their purpose. I won't dispute the rush but while it was happening neither of us were smiling... The shock afterwards was a rush until the big let down of Hallam that shoved down our throat how lucky we were. Pretty sombering actually.
I'm pretty certain David will agree that anyone who intentionally goes out with the agenda to drive through a tornado is a complete and total idiot.
Also for the record we did not drive through a tornado one basically formed right on top of us. BIG DIFFERENCE
Jason A.C. Brock
I am sure alot of people called Franklin an idiot with his kite experiment as well. Or did they???? Hmmmmmmm
David Drummond
Member
I am sure alot of people called Franklin an idiot with his kite experiment as well. Or did they???? Hmmmmmmm
Ol Ben was an idiot for flying a kite in the lightning. Of course then they didn't know much about it. Thankfully what he learned from being an idiot revolutionized the world.
I hardly think driving into a tornado is going to revolutionize the world.
Shane Adams
I'm only arguing the idea....I think intentionally driving into a tornado is stupid. In your original post, you made the comment that "it's funny" how the chase community is chastising this guy.....meanwhile, you're learning. You made it sound as if you couldn't understand why we'd not be "for it." If that wasn't your intention, then I apologize.
I assumed you were serious because of the way I interpreted your original post. And all I was really doing was pointing out that a tank is still a bad idea, not pointing at YOU saying "he's an idiot." The only suggestion I made was that you read up on what violent tornadoes can do, thinking you were serious about the tank. Who knows, maybe I was trying to save your life.
If I knew you were joking, I never wouldn't even commented. But as I've stated above, you came across pretty serious to me after your initial post. I suck really bad at reading people in general, I guess I'm even worse online. EAnyway, I wouldn;t let one bad experience out of the box ruin the forums for you.
Mike Hollingshead
As for the whole newbie thing. Please don't think the "elders" owe you the world, becuase they don't. Arguments happen regardless of how long one has been chasing. Jason.....did you have any thoughts on the TIV, or was this just yet another chance to get your stabs in at the more longer termed chasers out there? Good grief.
Yes and worst of all someone might just not agree with them, heaven forbid. Everyone loves to act like they are going to die over colorful dissagreements. If the site is so bad Jason just leave. That or one could get over it? Looking at your posts of late it appears to me you aren't getting too ridiculed. Shocking.....I'll have to get right on that. Shane is coming with me. We will start up a clan of unhappy chasers bent on ridiculing every newbie's idea. Even if we do agree we'll change our view just to be able to state something against what they think, achieving ridicule level.
Yes and worst of all someone might just not agree with them, heaven forbid. Everyone loves to act like they are going to die over colorful dissagreements. If the site is so bad Jason just leave. That or one could get over it? Looking at your posts of late it appears to me you aren't getting too ridiculed. Shocking.....I'll have to get right on that. Shane is coming with me. We will start up a clan of unhappy chasers bent on ridiculing every newbie's idea. Even if we do agree we'll change our view just to be able to state something against what they think, achieving ridicule level.
B Ozanne
EF5
Back to the TIV....where are the pictures?
All I see on the site is some guys in white t-shirts, dark clouds, a pretty sunset, and a few tornado pics.
All I see on the site is some guys in white t-shirts, dark clouds, a pretty sunset, and a few tornado pics.
Mike Hollingshead
Confusing ain't it? That is why I poked fun at it. I felt it was more then justified. That'd be kind of like me posting an account saying I saw this amazing supercell. Then post pictures of a rodeo. Anyway, ya got me where the intercept pics are.
Mike Peregrine
EF5
The longer you post, the more arguments you get into ... just expect it and move on - not everyone will agree with you all the time. This a no-whining zone.
As for discussion on the TIV - my opinions (take em or leave em) -
*The purpose of this project is not for the advancement of the science ... the notion that sending a car containing a human passenger into a tornado to make scientific strides is laughable and makes for a noble cover story.
*The pictures ... so what ... every chaser I know has better, so far that I've seen.
*The risk - this is a stunt - I don't care when other people risk their lives if they want to - what I do care about is when people do it, then claim to represent storm chasers in some way, play to the media and make me look like an idiot because I do this.
*The reality - this is all about media, airtime and sponsorship - anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken.
This venture can hardly be compared with others, like Tim Samaras' work over the past years. Tim's work involves years of experience, years of effort, a background as a chaser, and honest technical training ... maybe I'm wrong, and they probably know more than I do, but does anyone else think the TIV guys look like little more than:
-a bunch of kids
-chasers who are known to thrive on sensationalism
-a TV 'producer'
-and a racecar driver
Don't look for a call from National Geographic anytime soon -
As for discussion on the TIV - my opinions (take em or leave em) -
*The purpose of this project is not for the advancement of the science ... the notion that sending a car containing a human passenger into a tornado to make scientific strides is laughable and makes for a noble cover story.
*The pictures ... so what ... every chaser I know has better, so far that I've seen.
*The risk - this is a stunt - I don't care when other people risk their lives if they want to - what I do care about is when people do it, then claim to represent storm chasers in some way, play to the media and make me look like an idiot because I do this.
*The reality - this is all about media, airtime and sponsorship - anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken.
This venture can hardly be compared with others, like Tim Samaras' work over the past years. Tim's work involves years of experience, years of effort, a background as a chaser, and honest technical training ... maybe I'm wrong, and they probably know more than I do, but does anyone else think the TIV guys look like little more than:
-a bunch of kids
-chasers who are known to thrive on sensationalism
-a TV 'producer'
-and a racecar driver
Don't look for a call from National Geographic anytime soon -
fplowman
I hate the fact that im involved in all the finger pointing..
I thought the same thing Mike.. They dont want to show alot.. they arent trying to impress us I believe.. Theyre trying to impress those who know not about chasing.. It is a marketing ploy.. Plain and simple.. need to build anticipation for those sponsors..
Mike P. have you seen that TIV in Eudora?? That guy lives out there has something similiar to the TIV.. I hear he works at the circle K.. lol
my 2 cents
I thought the same thing Mike.. They dont want to show alot.. they arent trying to impress us I believe.. Theyre trying to impress those who know not about chasing.. It is a marketing ploy.. Plain and simple.. need to build anticipation for those sponsors..
Mike P. have you seen that TIV in Eudora?? That guy lives out there has something similiar to the TIV.. I hear he works at the circle K.. lol
my 2 cents
Dan Cook
EF5
lol
Marc Grant
Something I've never seen brought up on the forum here in regards to what kind of wind it takes to move an object of a certain weight is "surface area". The more surface area exposed to the wind, the more likely even a heavy object will be affected.
The comment about "Oh, and finally - an F4 or greater tornado doesn't care if it's a tank, or a train, or a semi. You really should do some reading....." doesn't take into consideration that a box car and a semi have a huge amount of surface area to catch the wind. We don't see locomotives thrown about from tornados.
The Abrams M1 Tank is 32' long, 12' wide and only 8' high and weighs almost 140,000 pounds. That's a lot of weight for such a low profile so I give the tank a very good chance in an F4 tornado. Just a couple of observations.... :lol:
In regards to the TIV, I got a chance to view it up close one afternoon in Iowa and although it has a lot of 1/4" steel plate on it, the joints and fit of the plate are poorly done leaving lots of ways for the wind to get underneath and rip them from the vehicle.
The comment about "Oh, and finally - an F4 or greater tornado doesn't care if it's a tank, or a train, or a semi. You really should do some reading....." doesn't take into consideration that a box car and a semi have a huge amount of surface area to catch the wind. We don't see locomotives thrown about from tornados.
The Abrams M1 Tank is 32' long, 12' wide and only 8' high and weighs almost 140,000 pounds. That's a lot of weight for such a low profile so I give the tank a very good chance in an F4 tornado. Just a couple of observations.... :lol:
In regards to the TIV, I got a chance to view it up close one afternoon in Iowa and although it has a lot of 1/4" steel plate on it, the joints and fit of the plate are poorly done leaving lots of ways for the wind to get underneath and rip them from the vehicle.
Shane Adams
1931, Minnesota.....Empire Builder. I have to disagree :wink:
But would you be willing to risk your neck on this theory? I understand what you're saying about center of gravity, but with near-ground speed winds approaching 250mph, I think anything not attached to the core of the earth would move. An object doesn't neccesarily have to be airborne in a tornado to be severely damaged.......I'd hate to think what an occupant might look like if one of these tanks ever got to rolling in tornadic winds.
Then again....70 tons is a lot of weight. Problem with this is, the chances we'd ever get this vehicle into position to sample the core of a violent tornado are like a zillion to one.
Not to be rude, but I too have seen this vehicle close up....POS, really.
Jason A.C. Brock
If there was any other good chaser sites and forums to go to I think some of us would leave. This forum has gotten alot better since a few new rules have been created. In fact I would go as far as to say this forum is a good one now. It just disturbs me to have these silly misunderstandings in the first place. This is a forum for poeples OPINIONS. If you dont like someones OPINION or disagree then I just feel its alot more effective to not respond to it at all instead of jumping down the persons throat for it or making that person feel uncomfortable or humiliated in front of everyone else. It also saves alot of space in the end.
Of course this is my OPINION and you can take it as just that.
I am not unhappy with the site Mike just some of the comments towards others is all. Of course this all seems to have been a misunderstanding from one person not understandng the other persons meaning or intent. Yet another good reason to hold your tongue before you speak.
I also havent been ridiculed because I havent posted anything except updates for my website because a few months ago I decided to psot nothing but that because when I did post something else (or saw others who dont post that often) someone had to add a little remark here or there that usually was jsut uncalled for. Like your comment you made earlier. Was it needed....no.....of course I can see where my comment may not have been needed about warning plowman not to post because he would be shot down. I was just trying to draw attention to the fact that when the "new guy' makes a post he gets shot down it seems. This to me would make alot of people not want to post. I myself dont post as much as I used to because I dont want to deal with having to defend myself over and over such as now.
I was not trying to get any stabs in at anyone. AGAIN another example of someone taking something the wrong way. If I was taking a stab at anyone it was taking a stab at someone who may have deserved a stab back by taking a poke at someone who didnt take a stab at anyone.
No hard feeling Mike and I actually think you are one of the best photographers I have ever seen in my life.
As for having an opinion about the TIV I think alot of people should be more open minded and think twice before they place their official brand on these guys.
Think about it. Is it worse to know your driving into a tornado or a dangerous area and then do so or to drive into a tornado or a dangerous area and not realize your doing so?
I think both are bonehead moves personally but accidents do happen and sometimes even the great ones make mistakes. It takes mistakes to help one learn afterall. Taking in mind you survive your mistake.
I think this site has greatly improved and am glad to see the pokes and stabs at others brought down to almost zero and the quick action taken against those who do so. However ill do everyone a favor and go back to just checking the target area from now on.
As far as taking pokes at the Vets I personally have no hard feelings toward Vets but if you think there are those who think there is no chastizing of newbies then you are wrong.
The following is from http://www.inchase.org/ this can be added to another thread if anyone feels it needs to be. Ill go back to monitoring the target area myself.
We also believe that veteran chasers tend to err on the side of labeling newcomers Yahoos more frequently than is really necessary. This leads to an un-necessary division in the hobby, and counter productive competition between newbies and vets. It probably even encourages Yahoo-like behavior. By creating a team of individuals of all experience levels, we hope to encourage everyone to be more open to exchange of ideas, techniques, and data that can lead to more success and higher safety for all involved. Learning from a neat idea from a newbie and in turn teaching him to chase responsibly is far better for all than snubbing the newbie fearing he may be a yahoo, then being rear-ended by him as he hydroplanes down the highway!
As far as getting over it I guess I have because there was never really anything to get over lol. I guess it would be easier to get over it instead of voicing my OPINION and actually thinking one might make a difference tho. :lol:
Of course this is my OPINION and you can take it as just that.
I am not unhappy with the site Mike just some of the comments towards others is all. Of course this all seems to have been a misunderstanding from one person not understandng the other persons meaning or intent. Yet another good reason to hold your tongue before you speak.
I also havent been ridiculed because I havent posted anything except updates for my website because a few months ago I decided to psot nothing but that because when I did post something else (or saw others who dont post that often) someone had to add a little remark here or there that usually was jsut uncalled for. Like your comment you made earlier. Was it needed....no.....of course I can see where my comment may not have been needed about warning plowman not to post because he would be shot down. I was just trying to draw attention to the fact that when the "new guy' makes a post he gets shot down it seems. This to me would make alot of people not want to post. I myself dont post as much as I used to because I dont want to deal with having to defend myself over and over such as now.
I was not trying to get any stabs in at anyone. AGAIN another example of someone taking something the wrong way. If I was taking a stab at anyone it was taking a stab at someone who may have deserved a stab back by taking a poke at someone who didnt take a stab at anyone.
No hard feeling Mike and I actually think you are one of the best photographers I have ever seen in my life.
As for having an opinion about the TIV I think alot of people should be more open minded and think twice before they place their official brand on these guys.
Think about it. Is it worse to know your driving into a tornado or a dangerous area and then do so or to drive into a tornado or a dangerous area and not realize your doing so?
I think both are bonehead moves personally but accidents do happen and sometimes even the great ones make mistakes. It takes mistakes to help one learn afterall. Taking in mind you survive your mistake.
I think this site has greatly improved and am glad to see the pokes and stabs at others brought down to almost zero and the quick action taken against those who do so. However ill do everyone a favor and go back to just checking the target area from now on.
As far as taking pokes at the Vets I personally have no hard feelings toward Vets but if you think there are those who think there is no chastizing of newbies then you are wrong.
The following is from http://www.inchase.org/ this can be added to another thread if anyone feels it needs to be. Ill go back to monitoring the target area myself.
We also believe that veteran chasers tend to err on the side of labeling newcomers Yahoos more frequently than is really necessary. This leads to an un-necessary division in the hobby, and counter productive competition between newbies and vets. It probably even encourages Yahoo-like behavior. By creating a team of individuals of all experience levels, we hope to encourage everyone to be more open to exchange of ideas, techniques, and data that can lead to more success and higher safety for all involved. Learning from a neat idea from a newbie and in turn teaching him to chase responsibly is far better for all than snubbing the newbie fearing he may be a yahoo, then being rear-ended by him as he hydroplanes down the highway!
As far as getting over it I guess I have because there was never really anything to get over lol. I guess it would be easier to get over it instead of voicing my OPINION and actually thinking one might make a difference tho. :lol:
