One last bit of reorganizing

Thomas Loades

There was a time when I came to this site with real enthusiasm. I thought this place was so cool, so interesting, so . . . well, I forget the rest. It's been a while since I felt that way. Right now: at best, I'm indifferent. At worst, I hate it here. So, I'm leaving. I just can't stand it here any more.

Now, this has nothing to do with the x2ing of the board or anything — having a place like this is a good thing, for some, anyway. The thing is, the problems come from people's attitudes, the last thing that would change. It's never going to go away; so how long till the next boil-over?

Firstly, it's really obvious that I'm not welcome here anymore. It never used to matter — otherwise I wouldn't have joined — but now every second post is how this is a place for CHASERS. I'm a college student doing meteorology, but I haven't gone on a real chase, don't have photos, videos, a vast cache of equipment, a vehicle — hell, I don't even have a driver's licence. I guess all I have is almost 600 posts of noise. So maybe people who are only college met majors shouldn't be admitted now. I don't know. But the only reason people like me come here is because there isn't any other board like this, that has such a wide spectrum of experience and knowledge. Do remember that. It's easy to take that for granted.

Anyway, I can understand how people want to "go back to the roots," but if you're making a fuss about who should be here now, will it stop? Where?
It will end up alienating more than just the undesirable "enthusiasts" and newbies if you have to call limits on what constitues a chaser. And then what happens if noise becomes a problem again? You may very well end up right back at the "core" from the last board — and they will be all.

And finally, this has just put me right off any kind of chase community — if in fact such a thing exists. There really is very little unity; most often argument, conflict, animosity, contempt, hypocrisy, elitism (oh, yes, there is), and paranoia. No board is ever going to change that, as I said, if these are the ingrained attitudes of people. I really hope I'm wrong if I assume that this is truly representative of the chaser collective, because if it is, I don't want it. I'll always love severe weather — nothing short of death (don't get any ideas) will change that. But when I chase — and make no mistake about it, I will, and I'll come to the U.S. to do it, too — I will chase alone. (I suppose saying all this has made me one of those insufferable whiners now. Don't worry, Tony, the feeling's mutual.)

Well, I've met (in the loosest sense) some great people here — to them, it's been been a pleasure. Happy trails.

Having expended my bile, I now log off.
 
Never quit during SDS. It is ALWAYS chaos during SDS, and this year is no different. You know that. If you need a break, just back off til spring and try again. That'll save you from inevitably wondering what you are missing come May and having to crawl back.
 
Originally posted by Thomas Loades
There was a time when I came to this site with real enthusiasm. I thought this place was so cool, so interesting, so . . . well, I forget the rest. It's been a while since I felt that way. Right now: at best, I'm indifferent. At worst, I hate it here. So, I'm leaving. I just can't stand it here any more.

Now, this has nothing to do with the x2ing of the board or anything — having a place like this is a good thing, for some, anyway. The thing is, the problems come from people's attitudes, the last thing that would change. It's never going to go away; so how long till the next boil-over?

Firstly, it's really obvious that I'm not welcome here anymore. It never used to matter — otherwise I wouldn't have joined — but now every second post is how this is a place for CHASERS. I'm a college student doing meteorology, but I haven't gone on a real chase, don't have photos, videos, a vast cache of equipment, a vehicle — hell, I don't even have a driver's licence. I guess all I have is almost 600 posts of noise. So maybe people who are only college met majors shouldn't be admitted now. I don't know. But the only reason people like me come here is because there isn't any other board like this, that has such a wide spectrum of experience and knowledge. Do remember that. It's easy to take that for granted.

Anyway, I can understand how people want to \"go back to the roots,\" but if you're making a fuss about who should be here now, will it stop? Where?
It will end up alienating more than just the undesirable \"enthusiasts\" and newbies if you have to call limits on what constitues a chaser. And then what happens if noise becomes a problem again? You may very well end up right back at the \"core\" from the last board — and they will be all.

And finally, this has just put me right off any kind of chase community — if in fact such a thing exists. There really is very little unity; most often argument, conflict, animosity, contempt, hypocrisy, elitism (oh, yes, there is), and paranoia. No board is ever going to change that, as I said, if these are the ingrained attitudes of people. I really hope I'm wrong if I assume that this is truly representative of the chaser collective, because if it is, I don't want it. I'll always love severe weather — nothing short of death (don't get any ideas) will change that. But when I chase — and make no mistake about it, I will, and I'll come to the U.S. to do it, too — I will chase alone. (I suppose saying all this has made me one of those insufferable whiners now. Don't worry, Tony, the feeling's mutual.)

Well, I've met (in the loosest sense) some great people here — to them, it's been been a pleasure. Happy trails.

Having expended my bile, I now log off.

Thomas I have been chasing for a few years and have been quit successful. If and when you come to the United States to chase look me up. I would love to chase with you. I dont want you to think were all that way. The elitism is pretty thick. Dont feel bad im not in the "inner circle" either. But thats ok :wink:
 
"The elitism is pretty thick. Dont feel bad im not in the "inner circle" either."

Could any posting with the word "elite" or any form thereof be considered a TOS violation someday soon? This is getting ridiculous...

Everyone that wasn't in the "core" won't stop whining even though the core is gone, while I imagine many who were in the core wonder why the core disbanded if this is the result.
 
Are you saying that elitism doesn't exist?

Or just that you don't want to hear about it anymore?
 
Could it exist? Yes. Was it the reason for the core? No.

But the #1 question - does posting about it do ANYTHING other than push those away who we need to keep here, because they are sick of the noise ratio still going up? I vote: NO.
 
Originally posted by rdale
Could it exist? Yes. Was it the reason for the core? No.

But the #1 question - does posting about it do ANYTHING other than push those away who we need to keep here, because they are sick of the noise ratio still going up? I vote: NO.

I'm not arguing, I'm just asking a question cause I'm curious. Why does ST "need" certain people?
 
The elitism is pretty thick. Dont feel bad im not in the \"inner circle\" either.\"

Could any posting with the word \"elite\" or any form thereof be considered a TOS violation someday soon? This is getting ridiculous...

Hah.. a good idea. Honestly, all this talk has become ludricris and quite tiresome.

All of this conspiracy theory/eliteism talk/restructering of ST boils down to one thing!

Getting ST's focus back on the CHASERS and STORM CHASING! If ST is driving away chasers because S/N ratio/flaming is high, then we're doing something wrong. We want to cater to all sorts of chasers... form just starting out.. to experienced... to the vets.

It really isn't a hard concept to figure out.

One last point. If you contribute to the forum by posting threads about topics that involve chasing (technology/equipment/forecasting techniques/etc), we aren't going to chase you out.

Aaron
 
I agree Aaron, and yes, for once, i've decided to join this Discussion, I didn't come to join any flame war. Why do we care about the e***ism, or any of that other stuff, we're here to talk about Storm Chasing people, not to discuss the local board gossip. I have seen people who got along pretty well before trying to beat each other into submission. I just wish that we could all stop this, and get back to talking about what we all share a common love for, Storms.
 
People don't like the concept of elitism because it makes the ones who do not feel part of the inner circle excluded and unwanted. It's pretty simple here, though ... for years ST has considered the 'inner circle' to be anyone who joins up and starts posting away. We're all just one big happy family. I say that's just fluff and an effort to protect a place for some chasers to play to a target audience who are most likely to buy their chase videos. No, it may not be the most popular going opinion these days, but I say ST was created for people who either go out and actively chase for themselves or are interested in actively finding solutions to the chase forecast problem. If you don't fit into either of these categories, then no - I don't think you belong as a member of Stormtrack. Elitest? Whatever. That word has lost all meaning at this point.

What ST needs: people interested and willing to post relevant information concerning storm chasing.

What ST does not need: everyone else.

Now that the big war has been waged and the battles fought for good vs. evil or whatever this is in the minds of each person here, I doubt that anything can be done at this point to repair the breach and attract anyone who sees all this as anymore than a waste of time back into active involvement. It's just not a stimulating environment or a healthy way to spend hours online. For me, that means going back to the reasons I did this before I ever knew there was such a thing as an online community.
 
(edit) PLEASE NOTE: This post was written not based on this thread's posts or any other particular comment or incident. I just had some time and thoughts to put to paper... to screen. -MP :D

I have remained silent as a mod on a lot of these issues, because I have wanted to keep a low profile, just helping Tim as another hand to sort through threads. Being a mod is just a little side thing that I enjoy, trying to add glue or WD 40 where I can. Though it's in a different thread, I encourage everyone willing to put forth the effort to apply. Keep in mind it is sometimes a very time consuming and occasionally frustrating task.

I do want to give you some insight into the recent "reset" of the board. For many days, we spent many very long posts in the moderator disco group going around and around about how we can make this board the best it can be.

Was the reset successful. I think so. Will we please everyone, no, though I hope a large majority do welcome the changes. Will there be some people so angry they'll leave ST? It's regrettable, but inevitable.

Within every community, there will be strife... conflict... sometimes anger at words others put into a board. As someone else put it, the Internet is really true free speech, and it's wonderful. However, when we all post messages (as has also been said) the intent and emotion involved can be misconstrued, completely lost, or blown out of proportion.

I won't speak about the defunct "private" forum, though want to let everyone know that I hope we can all move forward, putting our feelings about what has happened in the past behind us. Everyone has been attacked in one way or another at one time in the past, or feel that they have... situations online and in life.

There comes a time, however, that we should take a step back... realize there are others with whom we differ... rules with which we are in opposition. But, for the survival and success of the community as a whole, take one step and one post at a time. When there's a conflict with an individual, take it to PM. If they posted something you disagree with, ask them in PM to remove it and give them a good reason why.

If you think it violated the TOS, then don't hesitate to contact one of us.

There are times when I, too, have had my blood pressure spike due to something that is written. Though I realize it's sometimes written in haste... in the heat of the moment... it rubs me the wrong way. I just ask all of us to be a bit more diplomatic. After all, we're all in pursuit of the same thing... storms... and a place to freely discuss them.

I didn't want to post this in the midst of the massive posting of a few days ago, because it might have been a touchy thing. There are a lot of nerves still frayed from the last few weeks of the last ST incarnation. Our goal was to make a fresh start.

The activity surrounding the launch of the new site is dying down, and I am pleased. I look forward to a few more months of SDS... spending it with friends in this pleasant atmosphere.

Take care, and don't hesitate to contact me.
MP
 
Lets see....100+ post in the last few days about whats wrong with the board, meanwhile....

Today: Severe weather starting to develop, 1 tornado warning.
Yesterday: Tons of severe weather reports, including moderate wind damage in areas and 1 1/4 inch hail reports. 3 tornado warnings.
Tuesday: Waterspot in Wisconsin, moderate to heavy wind damage in areas, several 1 3/4 inch hail reports. 4 tornado warnings.
Monday: Numerous severe reports, including structure damage.

Total posts about these events: 18

And everybody wants to know what is REALLY with this board.....

Anybody that can honestly say that on a board dedicated to Storm Chasing that all of the posts in here are more important than chasable severe weather needs to seriously re-evaluate their priorities.
 
Originally posted by Chris Sokol
Lets see....100+ post in the last few days about whats wrong with the board, meanwhile....

***snip lots of severe weather that's going on***

Total posts about these events: 18

And everybody wants to know what is REALLY with this board.....

Anybody that can honestly say that on a board dedicated to Storm Chasing that all of the posts in here are more important than chasable severe weather needs to seriously re-evaluate their priorities.
[/b]

I think you have a valid point there, Chris. But I wouldn't be surprised about the volume of posts on this issue. The board was rather suddenly restructured without a lot of prior open discussion. Nothing neccesarily wrong with that, as he who owns the server can do whatever he wants with it -- but you can't control the "human interface", i.e. how people will react to change. This board just became more restrictive, and it's only natural that those who will be more affected by the restrictions or those who disagree with the philosophy behind the restrictions will be very vocal about it immediately after the restrictions are suddenly implemented. The best way to avoid this sort of unrest is to be very clear in advance what is being planned, give a time for public input, and make the community feel like it has an investment in the decision. I can't imagine that the volume of feedback really came as a surprise to anyone who designed and implemented the new board, whoever those people are. How could it? It was engineered to be dramatic and sudden.

The internets are not a democracy, that's for sure, but then no one site owns or even encapsulates the chaser community. This site has come to be, over the course of the past few years, strongly linked to the community. When people feel strongly linked to something, they like to think that their opinions matter. When the board suddenly changed without any prior discussion, a large number of people suddenly felt as if the community didn't care about what they thought. That's what all the sudden noise is about. The reality is that this board has never been the community, it's just a place where some in the community discourse. Those who run the board don't run the community, they run the board. When one is excluded from the board, it means nothing about whether or not they're a "real" storm chaser or a member of the chasing community, it just means that they're not welcome on this board.

Hopefully the exclusionary aspect of this board will be implemented very gently. People tend to form resentment for clubs that they're not welcome into, and often those who are the most talented will stay away from such communities simply because they wish to avoid pretention. For example, most highly intelligent people avoid Mensa like the plauge because it's perceived (corretly, IMO) as a club of people who are rather full of themeslves. Stormtrack has always felt welcome, informing, and extremely well run to me. Hopefully these new changes will be implemented in a way that maintains and encourages these qualities.
 
Ryan, that was an excellent diagnosis of the current situation. I very much liked the way you worded it, and I hope that everyone (irrespective of their perspective on the issue) will follow suit with the same diplomatic style of posting.

Honestly, that is what the problem is here. Many folks feel they have valid points, and so they state them boldly because they feel that they have the truth in hand. While that may be, it is much more necessary to consider how what we say will affect others than simply speaking our minds (again, no matter how correct we may be).

I think a lot of ya'll out there are great people, on both sides of the debate. In a few months, I'm sure most of this drama will be behind us as we discuss the latest fall tornado outbreak. :) Even if ST is not restructured in the way each of us would like, I think we should move on to far more important things. Remember Jeff Wear; life is short.

Gabe
 
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