Lurkers, Target Area, memberships, and Stormtrack

[Tim Vasquez]

One thing we have been seeing in new user essays are statements like this:

I am an amateur armchair chaser. I will not be posting - only following. I appreciate knowing where the storms are by following through the posts where the professionals are.

Anyhow, I mainly just want to read what people are posting as it relates to Kansas tornadoes and storm chasing. Not that much into posting unless absolutely necessary. Is their a way to just set my username to where I can only read the board ???

I enjoy the site. I like reading and following along although I probably will not ever post anything, at least any time soon. It is fun to see how I might forcast compared to many of the others. Thanks

My house was hit by a tornado about a year ago. I am wanting access to better forecasting info than my local tv provides. I read NOAA and SPC daily. I will not comment on posts, nor will I leave any. I promised my five year old daughter (who was also home when the house was hit) that I would watch the weather and know when the next tornado is coming - so we can be safe in our FEMA approved closet.

I am not a weather professional, but I do LOVE to track weather. I will not be posting but will just log on to read posts.

Needless to say, this seems to be becoming a trend: people joining Stormtrack not with the intention to contribute or connect with the community but just to scavenge the hundreds of quality forecasts that appear on a chase day. We have had some leeway about this as far as membership approvals, thinking that giving the benefit of the doubt would promote education and awareness, but we are now declining such applications.

On a sitewide level, one thing we did this morning is completely remove Forecasts & Nowcasts from public view so that it's not such a magnet. Earlier the thread names but NOT the contents were visible to nonapproved members, but now none of it is available.

There is a separate thread in the staff forum where I and the moderators are discussing this, but I thought I'd bring up the topic here too since for many of those reading, these are your forecasts, and you probably want some say in how we share them within our community and with others. Are we on the right track here or do you think there is justification for sharing some of the forecasts publically?

I think one route we can go is to have a separate membership track where people who want these things can pay a nominal fee (like $5/yr) for read access to Target Area and no posting privileges anywhere on ST. In turn we would get rid of all banner ads for regular members and fund ST completely from those visitors. This would also keep the user groups segregated. If those people want to upgrade to regular membership they would still have to go through the essay process. Overall that might be a win-win idea for everyone. This is not something being discussed seriously right now but is just a thought I had after processing a 2-week backlog of 300+ new membership applications (yes, 300), and having to decline ones like those above.

Any thoughts about all this are welcome. This subforum (Site Discussion) is not visible to non-members, so you can speak your mind.

Tim

 

[Andrew Ryan]

I think it's the right move to block people who are only going to lurk in the Target Area forums and possibly only add noise to that section. There are enough resources out there (blogs, SPC, and spotter network) if someone doesn't want to forecast and just go out follow what everyone else is doing.

If the public wants to know where severe weather will be on a given day, that's what the SPC and local WFO are there for and do a good job at it. Chaser forecasts are generally not in line with what the public needs to know about severe weather, IMO.

 

[Jordan Bell]

What I see these lurkers doing is just reading where people are headed and then showing up and following chasers. This presents many hazards being out there not knowing what they are doing, clogging the roads and etc.
I am all for regulating these threads. I think $5 may be too small of a fee, especially for a year.
Andrew is right, there are already plenty of resources to get information.

 

[rdale]

What I see these lurkers doing is just reading where people are headed and then showing up and following chasers.

How many instances of that have you seen? How do you know the people following you on a chase are ST lurkers?

 

[Brandon Goforth]

What I see these lurkers doing is just reading where people are headed and then showing up and following chasers.

This is the problem right here. Jordan nailed it with that one simple sentence. I've pretty much started avoiding the forecast discussions myself simply because the leaching has gotten ridiculous. I know several other guys have done the same, and now forecasting has become a private facebook chat discussion rather than a public one. But yeah, storm chasing is booming right now and everyone is looking for a quick and easy way to see tornadoes. Of course, spotter network gps positions are even worse, but that's a whole other unrelated problem.

 

[Jason Foster]

What I see these lurkers doing is just reading where people are headed and then showing up and following chasers....

I believe this to a big factor in the need to make our information more private. It may not have been in the past, but it is apparent that this is being done. Now, of course the risk is on them for heading out into the field with little to no knowledge, but we certainly don't need to make it easier.

I can see the education forum always being public...or simply bring back a "website" portion to stormtrack. Tim I know you've mentioned something of the sort in the past. I strong think that a good number of members here, and the core originators can certainly help and develop a site portion that lets stormtrack (and the members) control the information that is appropriate for newcomers and advanced chasers.

I know for one, that should the tropical section remain public in the same sense...I will NOT be posting anything about where I plan to go. I'm worried already that a bunch of first time tropical chasers will show up this season on any (if any...arrrgg) storm. Tropical chases are easy to track, but so many don't understand the risk of being there...and that is all that I will post...no "how to" anymore.

 

[Chris C Sanner]

This is the problem right here. Jordan nailed it with that one simple sentence. I've pretty much started avoiding the forecast discussions myself simply because the leaching has gotten ridiculous. I know several other guys have done the same, and now forecasting has become a private facebook chat discussion rather than a public one. But yeah, storm chasing is booming right now and everyone is looking for a quick and easy way to see tornadoes. Of course, spotter network gps positions are even worse, but that's a whole other unrelated problem.

I think Spotter Network serves as a valuable tool for NWS and media personnel...but having them easily accessible by the public could definitely encourage anyone to look where chasers are gathering and go there. If you own an iPhone and have Radarscope, chasing is literally a game of following the dots now for many. However, there are good arguments pro and con with SpotterNetwork's public accessibility, I can see both sides.

On THIS topic...I think this is an excellent start though Tim. I think the more exclusive areas where chase day forecasts are the better, since I have had many occurrences when I'd meet people in the field where they were clueless but mentioned StormTrack forecasts in conversations. Anecdotal evidence yes, but that's really all you'd have to support this theory other than stuff like this. As a guy who has ran communities like this for a living now for a decade, I'm just here to give a simple piece of advice: figure out what you are and stick with that.

Either ST is a place where weather enthusiasts are coming and people who are leaching targets or it is the place where serious chasers gather to discuss issues within our hobby while also using it as an area to bounce helpful forecast info off of each other on the side (even though the people ideally there already have done their own forecast). However, you can't have both. People have left ST in droves and are using channels like Facebook to communicate what they used to on Stormtrack because they can control who see's their thoughts and can generally block out leechers and those who feel entitled to information which they aren't. I can think of several dozen names who no longer post here who I know are still chasing and I have thought about becoming one of them myself in the past. I know I won't stick around if the current trends continue with people who are just looking for easy info on chase targets, and while I know I'm not a huge loss to the community, I seriously doubt I'm the only one who is contemplating such a move.

I just know that the signs are on the wall that Stormtrack is becoming irrelevant in it's current form to the more experienced chasers. And a change is needed to counter that if you wish to keep those people around.

 

[Rich Thompson]

I think it's pretty simple - if you don't make FCST posts yourself, you don't really need to see the other FCST posts. I'm used to people leeching off my forecasts because I've worked at SPC for 16 years, but those are public forecasts that are still a bit vague for chase targeting in most cases. If you want more of the experienced chasers to hang around, then I'd follow their requests and figure out a way to seal off the target area.

Or, it could be that FB, Twitter, etc., have changed the game and you won't see those folks return regardless of changes to the board.

 

[D. Hayes]

I agree with the change especially after watching chaser convergences out here in the plains. One question though..

Will you be trimming back the user base of people who are not contributing?

 

[Jim wyman]

All,
I am not a chaser due to the the lack of time with family, work, etc. plus my region (southern maryland ) is really not good for chasing..

I joined StormTrack in order to learn from professional stormchasers the scientific aspect of convective systems and related topics. I have already had some great advice/inputs/help from some on hear already and I thank you.

My intent here is not just to come here and suck up info from everyone's head but I hope to be able to contribute from time to time with knowledge and information that benefits all....

I run a weather website and station here in southern Maryland and I am currently enrolled to take METEO courses the summer...

I would like to think that I take this "hobby" a little more serious than those "lurkers" you say are on here..

I pray that this site doesn't get to the point of becoming so private to an elite few that people like me can't learn what is going on in the weather world and the technologies that contirbute to successfully forecasting and tracking convective systems..

V/R,

Jim

 

[Paul Knightley]

FWIW my thoughts: I enjoy reading the FCAST pages, and sometimes contributing, although being in the UK I don't always take an interest in every event. However, I didn't request to join ST to read other people's forecasts and not contribute myself. I have learnt a great deal on here, but have tried to do so in non-silent manner. I think if you're going to join a forum, you should contribute, or at least, certainly do so if you're able to see other people's forecasts.

Of course, one way of ridding yourself of such unwanted attention on your forecasts is not to post them! However, that defies the point of having a storm chasing forum where we can all learn from each other. Thus, what I'm trying to say is that I think the forecast forum should be available to people who intend to post their own forecasts there...otherwise, why do they need to see it?

I like to see other people's thoughts, but I don't allow myself to be swayed by them, otherwise how do I learn from my own mistakes?

On a forum I post on here in the UK I make convective forecasts and anyone can read them - these are not chasing targets, just convective discussions/outlooks. However, there are sometimes comments like: "Where are these thunderstorms which have been forecast?", or "Once again we've missed a thunderstorm"...these comments just scream out ignorance of how convection works and is forecast - I don't mind attempting to educate the posters about this, but it seems to fall on deaf ears at times - some people just can't be bothered to learn, and want someone else to do the leg work.

 

[James Hilger]

Some of us still CAN'T post in the forecast-tearget sections because of im guessing "site errors". Just want to remind the right people so i don't get kicked off here. I think only the Spotter members should be able to see other spotters but it's a fairly easy test so that may not help much. I admit, im always reading as much as i can about peoples forecasts and everything else on here so i can learn all i can. Having said that, i know to take that information lightly as i have seen many times people get it wrong and even witnessed on 4-22-2010 some of the best in the world choose the wrong cell and take off after another one and the one right beside it produce a few minutes later. I know we just don't know why one produces and another doesn't so im not ragging on anyone, i just don't want to piss anyone off with my "newbie" status. I am VERY thankful for the forums and would be happy to contribute in anyway i can including money.

 

[Jason Foster]

Jim:

I would not worry about the site becoming too elite, there is already a source/place for that. It is simply a matter of finding a balance where most of us can find a place to discuss things, but also not have the muddy mess of the general public, and leeches, and yahoos, and camaro drivers (LOL), interfere with our activities. Many of us remember days of open unhindered roads in the spring & summer which was one big draw for me personally. It's discussing "the chase" that matters here, not just weather, there are plenty of other forums to talk about weather. The problem is that recent years has brought a lot of talented forecasters here, and the open door policy has allowed many to filter.

I'm sure Tim also has an administration issue with the amount of time and scope to keep track off the every growing membership. I'm sure it was the main reason why essays were not considered as a part of entry to ST.

I think in the past the "invited" or "verification by other/vouch" processes was a decent one. I believe that is what I had to do the first time, years back I tried to join (I think ST was a listserve/BB then...memory is a little foggy). I think the second time I joined (got dumped each time the board changed) I did the small personal write up. There was also a Who's Who back then and I remember the board being rather small then.

 

[Tim Stoecklein]

I would have to say there's a great deal of educational opportunity in folks reading the forecast posts, I've learned so much over the years simply reading these posts....HOWEVER, I think the game has changed a bit in the past couple of years with regards to lurkers/tag-alongs. I would support the forecast posts being excluded from public view.

 

[Aaron Strum]

I am not a chaser, time, money, and life have prevented me from doing it. Also before I started to chase I wanted to know as much as I could from experienced people I like to read the forecasts/nowcast purely for my own information/education and just to see what is going on and what you guys are saying in it, as a personal rule I don't post unless I feel like I have something constructive to say, hence why I became a member not for forecasts but more of the ability to ask questions and get answers from experienced people, learn by watching, and get to know how the community is in a more real setting not off of popular media. I need to say from what I have seen you are some of the nicest people out there and no matter what your motive is for chasing always seem to be willing to lend a helping hand to not only each other but to people out side of your community.

I do understand about your concerns about the "yahoos" clogging up the roads and getting them selves in harms way by acting stupid. I agree with the web site idea (and maybe even the 5 dollars for access to Forecast with no posting privileges to those who just want to lurk). With the website I would also suggest some sort of page(s) devoted to tornado/sever storm safety I mean if we want to educate people about weather I would think safety would be a biggie.