Lessons Learned, Irresponsible Chasers, Ethical/Moral Responsibilities

[Eric Matthews]

About 20 years ago, one of the trade magazines for firefighting pointed out some of the unsafe acts that were shown on the cover of the magazine. The editor faced tremendous criticism. It went something like this;

"How can you criticize our Brothers?" "How dare you call them out?" "Those guys are great firefighters and would give their lives to save anyone." "This job is dangerous... accept it or get out of the profession." "Doing dangerous things is part of the job." "I've fought fire with them and they are damn good firefighters. How dare you call them out!"

The editor responded by saying, "We need to look at every incident and learn from it. We owe it to those that went before, those who we serve with today, and those who are yet to enter into our profession."

But the criticism did not end. He was told he should only use pictures on the cover that did not show guys doing something dangerous. So, the editor used a plain white sheet of paper as the cover for the next month’s issue! He said this was the picture of a safe fireground.

He pointed out that every single fire we went to, there were lessons we could learn. We needed to let go of our egos, quit defending people for doing stupid things. We needed to be able to criticize the action without feeling the need to jump in to defend the person. He reiterated that we are not attacking the person; we are looking at what happened, why, and what we could do differently in the future.

It is because our Brotherhood is so strong that we had difficulty criticizing the action. We learn immediately upon entering the fire service, that you do anything and everything for each other, including sacrificing your life if necessary! How can you have such a strong bond and allow criticism?

You have to understand that only through criticizing the actions can we learn and only by learning can we fulfill our commitment to doing anything and EVERYTHING for each other!

There's a slogan in the fire service that goes like this, "200 years of tradition unimpeded by progress"
We are slow learners in my profession, but we're finally coming around.

Let's not allow that slogan to become synonymous with Storm Chasing!

 

[rdale]

Let's not allow that slogan to become synonymous with Storm Chasing!

I see where you're going, but I don't think that applies. Firefighters didn't start off doing "stupid" things because they are stupid. They did it because that's how it had always been done, and when firefighting started there were no toxic plastics in homes, there wasn't an airpack to wear (or leave off), there was no thing as a rapid entry team because if the guys were lost there was no way to go get them regardless. Now we have those tools, and the issue is educating those "who always do it this way" that things have to change 1) because we know more and 2) because we have tools to do more.

If there was no property at stake, and no lives involved, firefighters wouldn't go in and their job would be completely risk-free. In storm chasing, there's absolutely nothing at stake. People put themselves in predicaments solely for personal "pleasure" and not for any real purpose. It's not as though the people driving into the debris field are unaware of the risk, or are doing it to save a life. No comparison.

 

[Eric Matthews]

I appreciate what you are saying, but you are missing my point. When we refuse to learn from our mistakes, we are destined to repeat them. When people die, or when they have close calls, looking critically at the events is not a negative, it's a necessity!

 

[rdale]

When we refuse to learn from our mistakes, we are destined to repeat them. When people die, or when they have close calls, looking critically at the events is not a negative, it's a necessity!

I get your point I'm just saying it doesn't apply here. Firefighters don't want to die. If it's too dangerous to attempt a rescue, they won't do it. If they do go "past the line" it's not because of a lack of knowledge as to what fire can do.

People that drive into tornadoes are not driving into a tornado because they don't know what harm can result. They aren't recalling a StormTrack thread and then hitting the brakes. They could care less about what you or I or anyone else thinks about what they do. We lost three chasers last year - what other "lessons" can be learned? What does looking critically at the video from these events accomplish? Will the guilty parties come here and say "Wow, I guess I messed up, I need to learn a lesson"? No. They'll think "Great video, everyone is sharing it, and I made some YouTube money. Let's do it again."

I applaud the effort. I'm just saying it's wasted.

 

[Rob H]

I think Eric made a very good point that some chasers think they know everything, and refuse to admit mistakes. And sometimes if you try analyzing those mistakes in a productive way, you get people circling the wagons. Just because some chasers are stubborn and do stupid things doesn't mean that's the way of the world. There are new people joining the hobby every day lurking these threads, getting the idea that chasing is all about getting close and you can't ever question another chaser's actions.

Take a look at my last post in the hook slicing thread (http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?30626-Hook-slicing-What-do-you-think) about Daniel and Greg. Daniel gets some great video, he seems like a nice guy on the Internet, and he didn't endanger anyone else, but I think he made some mistakes. If someone wants to tell me it's a waste of time to analyze that video, or that I shouldn't "attack" other chasers, I'll tell them to get bent. I was in no way disrespectful, and I've already had two people tell me that it was very useful in private.

S$%t-talking is bad. Constructive analysis of other peoples' experiences is good.

 

[Dave C]

I think Eric made a very good point that some chasers think they know everything, and refuse to admit mistakes. And sometimes if you try analyzing those mistakes in a productive way, you get people circling the wagons. Just because some chasers are stubborn and do stupid things doesn't mean that's the way of the world. There are new people joining the hobby every day lurking these threads, getting the idea that chasing is all about getting close and you can't ever question another chaser's actions.

Take a look at my last post in the hook slicing thread (http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?30626-Hook-slicing-What-do-you-think) about Daniel and Greg. Daniel gets some great video, he seems like a nice guy on the Internet, and he didn't endanger anyone else, but I think he made some mistakes. If someone wants to tell me it's a waste of time to analyze that video, or that I shouldn't "attack" other chasers, I'll tell them to get bent. I was in no way disrespectful, and I've already had two people tell me that it was very useful in private.

S$%t-talking is bad. Constructive analysis of other peoples' experiences is good.

I have to agree - constructive criticisms are good for us all. Maybe we cannot change some extreme chaser behavior (time will tell), but if we have no dialog we certainly have no chance at all of doing so. If we try, who knows, maybe a change will happen gradually in the culture for the better. I for one appreciate veteran chasers sharing their detailed knowledge and criticisms. I've been doing this only a few years now and am just feeling confident enough to start being more aggressive. I will still not take any of the extreme risks many will for the best video, but thats not why I chase - I could care less about the video competitions and egos - I want as little to do with that as possible. This hobby is dangerous in that anyone with a car and a radar feed can drive right up to deaths door if they are not careful. Lightning, driving long hours, extreme hail, extreme wind, traffic convergence, and tornadoes are all dangers that must be understood and respected - too many folks are accepting extreme video as a proper description of the hobby with thought for little else. I feel grateful that some of the veterans are being loud about some of the foolery going on. If a group holds no standard, it will quickly sink to the lowest denominator, and chasing is no exception.

D

 

[joel ewing]

Sorry for the late post, I just got back on 6-20 from my 3-week chase, and wanted to take a little tornadic break for a short while.
That being said, I only wish to say to the originator of this topic, Eric, that I think it is in very poor taste to call out Dick McGowen as being irresponsible. You did not have to use his name to get your point across. You've lost my respect, sir.

 

[Rob H]

What about my post about Daniel - is that one OK because he's relatively unknown? What if it's Sean Casey - someone who's well known, but it's cool to dislike him? I get confused with all these rules about which chasers I can publicly discuss.

You'd think that if Dick was that important to y'all, you'd at least spell his last name correctly.

 

[Todd Rector]

If there was a *like* button here, I would *like* your post

People:
Although Dick was called out by name in this thread, I believe the author's intention was to illustrate *with respect* that even very experienced chasers can be found in circumstances where they are situationally unaware. It wasn't personal, it was factual. Forget about the name attached to it, stop attacking the author of the post, WATCH the video and LEARN from it.