Lessons Learned, Irresponsible Chasers, Ethical/Moral Responsibilities

[Dan Robinson]

I still think I'm a little confused on what the actual issues being raised are. Getting close? Standing/stopping in the middle of the road? Speeding? Selling video? Journalistic ethics? Each of those are sub-issues that are their own areas of discussion. Some are black-and-white, others aren't so simple.

For instance - getting reasonably close: If you have a good amount of experience, getting close to most smaller-width tornadoes is really not as dangerous as it looks, especially when you're following behind one and don't have power poles/light objects on the left side of the road. You could argue that an experienced chaser doing something of that sort which *looks* like it is dangerous (but really isn't so much) still gives a bad impression to a chasing-ignorant general public (who thinks we're all crazy for simply chasing *at all*). Or maybe it makes a new chaser with no experience think they can try doing it when they probably shouldn't. Either way, you're dealing with perception issues there, not the danger of the actual act.

 

[Warren Faidley]

If we're not ready as a community to criticize those we hold in high regards, or because "they were right there at Greensburg" whatever that means, are we ready to criticize the ones that no one will defend? Because all we ever seem to do is dogpile the unknown or unliked chasers. Is discussing Tim/Carl's mistake(s) at El Reno off the table? I didn't know Carl, but Tim was one heck of a nice and smart guy. I think Tim would be pissed if we didn't learn something from El Reno and discuss it in the context of aggressive chasing and mistakes made under the meso.

If Dick did something that was unsafe or made a mistake, we should discuss it (without ripping him apart as a person). If he cares what the members of this forum thinks, or wants to defend himself, he can always log in and post. This isn't criticizing someone's talent for the forecast or skill behind a camera. This is about being responsible in a 3000lb chunk of metal traveling at 60+ mph near swirling columns of air that can easily level commercial structures. No one is good enough or smart enough to mitigate all the risks in that situation, and we all roll the dice, some more than others.

This is one of the best posts in this discussion thread.

I have a lot, and I mean a lot, of chasers who email me off this group and generally agree with a lot of the issues, but they are afraid to speak up. This is one of the reasons why some chasers seem to get a free ticket to bad behavior and shady ethics. I understand why some don't want to get involved, and that's OK, but others cower like a bolt of dominating lightning is going to hit them if they speak up. Show some backbone.

I do not believe in personal attacks based on rumors or "vendettas," like calling someone out for something they did not do, or you are upset because they got some great video and you did not. But when there is overwhelming video or witness evidence, then it's fair game. And attacking a poster, or labeling them because they bring something up is really lame. And yes, there are a few chasers, or those who associate with them, who are at the forefront of issues. So bringing them up is fair game. They are always welcomed to come on ST and say something, but that's not going to happen.

I know a lot of chasers here support specific chasers for various reasons, but don't kill the messenger because you disagree.

W.

edit: I should also note that back in the day, I was often "called out" for things I did, here on ST and in other wx groups, some were my stupidity and others were completely baseless or hearsay. Some comments were mean and hurtful. Some did great damage to my business that never fully recovered. I'm over it. When something was indeed my fault, I made efforts to change and it and it made me a better chaser and person. I stayed on ST and did not run away and hide from criticisms. So the moral of the story? Those chasers who think they are above everyone and want to mold chasing into their image take note, and then take a hard look in the mirror.

But it's very hard to backtrack and admit your faults and errors without collapsing your kingdom.

W.

 

[Will Campbell]

I echo most sentiments here. We have streamed with the "more loud and obnoxious" online stream group since 2008 in some form or another. In that time we have got quite the following, and I can only attribute that to our hijinks and comedy-laden antics, as I'm not an "every system" chaser, and we do NOT get close. And after the Pilger storm, and multiple occurrences this year and the last year or so, watching (in my opinion) idiots drive into debris or outer circulations of tornadoes, then being put on a pedestal, we stated that we'd no longer be streaming our chases. My justification is that I don't want my name associated with groups that drive people into softball hail and cheer it as being awesome, people that lather some BS scientific motivations to "intercept." Where's the peer-reviewed papers or even research findings if these people are out for science? What are they contributing? I cut ties because I didn't want to be associated with this group, people driving like Jeff Gordon, being irresponsible and reckless, quite blatantly on their streams. It makes me sick.

I'm not saying I'm better than others, but I'm not going to get into a holier than thou pissing match about why I chase. I chase because I love the time with friends, and to witness the power of nature, and take video and pictures for my own use. I've never sold any of my media. If I'm presented with a situation where I can assist a person that needs it, I do what any ethical human should do and help. If there's already emergency personnel on scene, I drive on.

To echo what others have said about Dick though, he's a stand-up guy unlike quite a few of his closer associates. I don't think it's in good taste to publicly chastise someone like that either, especially when you're taking a very microscopic sample from a giant pool.

 

[Rob H]

To echo what others have said about Dick though, he's a stand-up guy unlike quite a few of his closer associates. I don't think it's in good taste to publicly chastise someone like that either, especially when you're taking a very microscopic sample from a giant pool.

Where did anyone say he wasn't a stand up guy? That has zero bearing on the question of safely intercepting. And then you go and bag on his closer associates after the comment about publicly chastising people

The escape route takes top priority. If the worst case scenario happened and the irrigation came lose and blocked the escape route, and chasers got swallowed up and spit out by a violent wedge, that's not just bad luck. That's failing to account for the environment and could be called "irresponsible". Dick's a bit of a special case as I'm assuming he was in the Dominator and can mitigate some of those risks. But why can't someone feel free to point out the danger that was present here without having half a dozen people getting bent out of shape? Hell, criticize the safety in my videos - if they're legit concerns, I don't care.

My number one goal is always coming home in one piece, and right behind that is making sure I'm not a danger to others. "Seeing a good storm" is a distant third, "what other chasers think of me" is almost at the bottom of the list, and "making a name for myself" isn't even on the list anymore. A lot of chasers have these priorities mixed up. I'm not saying Dick does, that's a separate/related issue and I don't want people to confuse them.

 

[Will Campbell]

Removed to not fuel a pointless fire. Please understand that echoing means to share or say the same sentiments. I never insinuated otherwise. My "chastising" comments were never direct or to a name. Make of it what you will. I respect your opinion and stance. Have a good day.

 

[Rob H]

edit: Apparently "let's stop talking about how much we like Dick" can be misconstrued, and I've been advised to word things more carefully. My apologies.

"Rob H was being reckless that day"

"A known chaser form the twin cities area was being reckless that day"

Touche?

Will, I'm not mad so as long as you're not mad, we're all good and there are no pointless fires. It was just a gentle tease about the close associates, but probably uncalled for

I'd like to leave this quote because I think it makes an important point. I don't care if someone wants to post that about me. I got crapped on for 4/14/12 and Mapleton because I was "too close" and "setting a bad example". Which is really funny to me because those are two of my safer encounters, but I did take their advice. I removed those videos for a long time and changed the title and description to be less "rockstar extreme". It's funny to me how they picked those days and ignored the times I really did screw up! If someone has a legit concern, then I encourage them to bring it up and use me as an example.

I just screwed up last week, here's my story: We had played with the garbage up near Sioux Falls for too long and had considered going for the Melvin cell before committing to the storm that produced the Pilger tornado. So we were behind the ball. We were in Wayne, punching the core to get to the Stanton tornado and make up some time. The strategy was to crash south, drive into Pilger, and intercept on the west side of town. Driving south we got a "funny feeling" and were about to abort when the velocity scan updated - the couplet "jumped" east several miles and we were about to drive into the Pilger tornado. We quickly bailed east once we confirmed what our gut was telling us. I think we eventually would have listened to our gut or seen evidence of the tornado, if maybe a minute or two later, but it's still terrifying to think "what if". These are the decisions we make every time we chase. I was so focused on HCA and beating the hail core I didn't consider the possibility with those extreme conditions that there might be a meso handoff and intense tornadogenesis. After all, I've been within 1/4 mile of some large tornadoes and I know how to handle myself in those situations, right? I was reckless that day. A little bit of bad luck (and maybe some stubbornness) and I might've kept heading into Pilger. You'll note my escape route was also directly in the path of two EF-4s, so while I'm trying to get out of a hail core that was on top of me, I'm driving as fast as I safely can in heavy precip on a gravel road. If the gravel road I took was washed out a little, or we slid off the road... You get the picture anyways. We beat the Pilger tornado to the paved road by just enough time that we were able to begin seeing it through the rain, so it wasn't too far away. Here's the confusing diagram (oops, drew my planned path going east instead of west):

I deleted the video from that part of the chase. It's etched into my brain and I don't need to watch it. It might make for entertaining viewing or contribute to my "extreme" chasing persona if I cared about one, but I don't want people to see that. I want people to watch my videos and see me from a safe distance with a tripod, and I want some little 8 year old to watch that and say "I'm going to do that when I'm older". They'll learn about the dangers other ways, without me glamorizing them for page views/likes. There's nothing glamorous about trying to find safety in the midst of four EF-4s.

 

[Will Campbell]

Fair enough. I giggled like a school-girl a little bit. Removed post. I need to stop fanning flames here. Onward!

 

[John Bowles]

I still think I'm a little confused on what the actual issues being raised are. Getting close? Standing/stopping in the middle of the road? Speeding? Selling video? Journalistic ethics? Each of those are sub-issues that are their own areas of discussion. Some are black-and-white, others aren't so simple.

For instance - getting reasonably close: If you have a good amount of experience, getting close to most smaller-width tornadoes is really not as dangerous as it looks, especially when you're following behind one and don't have power poles/light objects on the left side of the road. You could argue that an experienced chaser doing something of that sort which *looks* like it is dangerous (but really isn't so much) still gives a bad impression to a chasing-ignorant general public (who thinks we're all crazy for simply chasing *at all*). Or maybe it makes a new chaser with no experience think they can try doing it when they probably shouldn't. Either way, you're dealing with perception issues there, not the danger of the actual act.

I've watched streams of chasers doing that - following close behind a small-ish tornado at a reasonably safe distance from any debris. All was well until the second tornado dropped behind them. Then they started to panic.

If you are so close to a tornado that its all you can see and pay attention to, or if the meso cycling will cut off your only escape route - you are too close. Your putting your safety in the hands of pure luck, and luck isn't always on your side.

 

[Todd Rector]

Rob: Thank you for posting this. VERY interesting and educational.

And thank EVERYONE on this thread for respecting the opinions of others and acting like adults here.

 

[Adam Lucio]

It all comes down to people taking the risk they want to take.

There is a difference, however, between intentionally getting close and knowing how manuever around the tornado at close range VS accidentally ending up there and screaming for your life. Unfortunately it usually takes the latter to learn the former.

As for me personally I go back and forth. Ill get extremely close sometimes, and others hang back. It just depends on how my season is going and what kind of shots I want. In the case of Pilger, those were the first good tornadoes I saw this year, and my focus was more on getting a decent shot for the year rather than trying to navigate myself within 100 yards so I hung back longer than usual. Plus in that rare case, being so close to 1 usually compromised a good shot of the other and for that reason Im glad I have a good static shots of both tornadoes churning and doing their thing. I may never get that chance again in my life. There will always be more single tornadoes to get close to.

If I get another chance this year, Ill probably go for the closer approach, because I already have my nice, distant, awesome shots. Now its time to change it up a bit.

 

[STexan]

To my way of thinking, chasing is like sky-diving. It has many safety features that are/can be utilized, but that does not change the fact it is dangerous ... the only way to make it completely safe is not to ever go up in the plane. So long as they are only endangering themselves by "getting too close", what's the problem? ("Too close" according to whose/what standards?) The world is full of risk-takers

 

[Jake Orosi]

To my way of thinking, chasing is like sky-diving. It has many safety features that are/can be utilized, but that does not change the fact it is dangerous ... the only way to make it completely safe is not to ever go up in the plane. So long as they are only endangering themselves by "getting too close", what's the problem? ("Too close" according to whose/what standards?) The world is full of risk-takers

The biggest point of the thread is the impression their behavior gives other people about what is safe to do, and what is not. If it were just them, driving up next to the tornado to get photos for themselves, nobody would care. Feel free to drive straight into the tornado and wave to the Wicked Witch of the West if that kind of thing lights your fire. But when they post their media, complete with purple commentary, and people view it and say "that doesn't look so dangerous, I can do that", then it can be argued they are not only endangering themselves.

 

[Bill Giles]

I’m actually glad that this thread is here, if nothing else because talking about these issues appears difficult and seems to polarize the storm chaser "community". It's been said earlier that its driven veterans away, and may be discouraging new people from speaking up, although it’s hard to speak for a silent majority when they’re ...uh.. silent. I posted about it though and maybe that says something?

This odd sort of "no-names" tapdance occurs when someone is captured on film or reported via eyewitness doing something that the reporting party judges "extreme" or "unsafe". Personal friend and relations can come into play, and scuffles are quickly shut down which is good for keeping a peaceful atmosphere (oh hey, a weather pun), but causes strain when attempting to talk about touchy subjects which focus more on perspective on safety. After all, what I consider safe makes my mom cringe (i.e. travelling to a state that has a lot of tornadoes) but many might consider not a big deal at all.

Here's my thoughts into some of this.

Irresponsible chasing occasionally draws bad publicity to the chaser community. This hasn't happened on a major outrage scale yet, although El Reno caused some backlash. I’ll go into my thoughts as to why more of a backlash didn't occur below.

In the past I saw storm chasers as mostly a faceless body (except for those selling to media outlets or on TV) of like-minded people. But lately we aren't faceless. The new face of storm chasing, at least to the public, are doing the riskiest things, and while they may choose their risks based on preparation (building a large turtle shell to hide under), education (news crews with meteorologists chasing), or just circumstance and whim, many people see them “succeeding†and will strive to emulate it.

My best example: Last weekend my girlfriend’s grandma, who cares nothing about weather at all, showed me pictures from Reed Timmers facebook page. “Have you heard of Reed?†she asked.

Yes...yes I have. Of course I have. This guy seems nuts in the videos but he keep getting results, and even though I scorn the apparent lack of safety I have to admit...I'm kind of in awe when someone can get so close to something that's fascinated me since I was a child.

It's difficult to explain to grandma that the chaser community that I am most familiar with are the hobbyists, who run the gamut from “Let’s drive next to the tornado!†to “A few miles off the storm itself works for me†with the occasional “OH CRAP I MESSED UP...but hey, nice pics!â€. These are the people I admire. Skip Talbots El Reno videos taught me more about good chaser mindset in 45 minutes than I ever dreamed, and it all seems so obvious when I stopped to consider it.

However, the results of “irresponsible†chasing (crazy close up shots of tornadoes) and the ease of streaming video, widespread access to video recording equipment, coupled with online radar access is drawing more and more to try, often without the benefit of even the basic working of how to read radar, understanding the delays involved in chasing solely by radar, or what to do if things go wrong.

I’m sorry to admit that this camp kind of includes me, since I’ve wanted to chase tornadoes since I was about 5 or 6 and I have always wanted to chase storms on the plains, but was not (and am still not) prepared as I now see I should be. I’ve been lurking here for years though and I have come to learn that

• It’s not that easy to just go chase tornadoes, and -
• things could go south very quickly if I’m not armed with more knowledge, and better prepared when and if my current knowledge fails me

Irresponsible chasing results is causing others to gain notoriety via various media sources (reality TV, the Internet) and a few have figured out how to monetize it effectively, but (in my opinion) maybe not responsibly. I think that maybe starts to fall under a business ethics issue, with some chaser tours reportedly getting “too close†(although that is easily argued as to being in the eye of the beholder, or chaser).

I’m going to talk about El Reno briefly, with the disclaimer that I mean no disrespect to anyone, living or deceased.

El Reno was a tragedy for the storm chaser and scientific community, and highlighted what can and may eventually go wrong again. However I didn't see it ever turn into a public backlash against chasers, and I think I understand why; Tim, Carl, and Paul were the names that jumped out at us as the face of that tragedy, and they were well known researchers and very experienced storm chasers.

Richard Henderson is the one who I noticed; a casual chaser whose age is close to mine. He was right there too, and made the same risky decisions that sent all those GPS blips scrambling away from disaster in Skip’s El Reno video(s). Even more sobering to me, Gabe Garfields NWS Youtube video regarding the El Reno event indicated that Richard was “hindered by chaser trafficâ€. Did Tim’s reputation as a responsible, science oriented chaser and researcher overshadow what might have become a media “call to arms†against storm chasers? Did a chaser traffic jam with people on the quest for more pictures and video inadvertently kill a fellow chaser?

If that was me, would anyone in the storm chasing community even recognize that I WAS in the storm chasing community up until today? Do I even qualify since I’ve never actually seen a tornado? Replace “I†in this paragraph with “those who lurk these forums and don't post†and maybe this scenario has played out a few times already. I think Chuck Doswell may have pointed this out awhile back, but it’s something that stuck with me.

There’s another issue that bugs me; what I think might be the real rationale behind chaser "doom-saying". We’re all terrified of what seems inevitable, but I’m not sure if I buy everyone’s stated reasons why. These, to me, include:

• Someone deemed a responsible storm chaser is going to die from a irresponsible decision or mistake, or and their error may or may not endanger or kill bystanders. I'm sorry to say this, but it has happened and it's been the big boogeyman up until 2013.

• Someday, someone inexperienced is going to watch someone more experienced (or possibly pretending to be) take a large risk involving a tornado and succeed. They will attempt to mimic them and die, or get seriously hurt. They may let everyone know which internet celebrity "told" them that it was ok, or made it look easy. I call this the Beavis and Butthead effect, and I think Reed Timmer seems like the obvious face to blame, but I don’t know that he’ll be the true role model for whomever takes this path, or just the easiest name to blame if and when it does.

• Someday, a chaser's loss of situational awareness could cause fellow chasers or innocent bystanders injury or death. My best example is if the El Reno had been a truly long track tornado and a chaser convergence on I-40 or Route 66 had led to traffic jams in front of it.

• My personal worst case scenario - the chase tour that drives into a tornado with a surviving van occupant, producing footage of the “all wise†storm chaser driver confidently making the wrong call. This, to me, shows the most direct involvement that there could be of a storm-chaser directly making a risky call that endangered people the paid to be safe, but see a tornado.

Then I think there’s this, which might be pure speculation or cynicism on my part, or maybe it's the elephant in the room.

• Someday, someone in our community (or perceived to be) is going to drive into a tornado and they're going to recover footage which will show bad judgement of the chaser involved. Or some storm chasers will inadvertently cause the death of a person or group of bystanders. Media outrage and possibly a politician or two will focus on a sudden political lightning rod event causing the beginning of legislation minimizing or banning storm chasing, and then we won't be able to do it anymore.

Again, maybe it's cynicism on my part, but I always feel like that thought is hanging around in these discussions, but left unsaid because it's easier and more noble to advocate for public safety rather than personal freedom.

 

[Rob H]

To my way of thinking, chasing is like sky-diving. It has many safety features that are/can be utilized, but that does not change the fact it is dangerous ... the only way to make it completely safe is not to ever go up in the plane. So long as they are only endangering themselves by "getting too close", what's the problem? ("Too close" according to whose/what standards?) The world is full of risk-takers

The problem is Wakita 5/10/10, Wichita 5/19/13, and days like that. Situations where you have explosive, unpredictable environments and you could have had an El Reno type tornado, but thankfully didn't. Hwy 11 in Wakita, and Hwy 42 (?) in Wichita were packed with chasers hanging out windows, putting tripods in the middle of the road, etc. You still ended up with a tour getting hit and newspaper stories about chasers blocking citizens from getting home, but there wasn't an outright disaster. I'm terrified of having my escape routes blocked by a kid with a cell phone and a desire to emulate the rockstar chaser of the month. If the media we produce and promote encourages close "rockstar" chasing (I love that term), that's what we're going to end up seeing more of.

I will say one thing about being close. If I saw Samaras, or Lucio, or Dick, or Andy G, or any of the usual suspects (and I mean that in the nicest way) nearby I actually felt more safe because I knew they wouldn't panic and do stupid s%^t. They'll lose a rear window and hold their ground. A car I don't recognize with decals plastered all over the side and people hanging out the windows screaming will get my attention as a threat even more than the tornado sometimes.

edit: Speaking of kids, emulating rockstars, and Wakita/Wichita - this is a funny story. We're at a gas station in Enid filling up on 5/10/10 and this kid comes up to us and asks if we're storm chasers. We say yes, and he tells us this big story about how he lives up in Wichita and heard there would be big storms today (the PDS watch was just issued). He had seen Storm Chasers and wanted to chase storms like the guys in the "big red tank" that was also parked at the gas station. He had only basic knowledge of weather, and a non-smartphone cellphone. We told him he should probably head home before things got nasty and he politely/adamantly declined. So we offered to let him follow us in the hopes that he'd be at least a little safer than following the Dominator.

So Wakita happened with the multi vortex hitting cars and wedging out after it crossed Hwy 11, and softball hail being thrown in the 75mph RFD that snapped power poles next to us. After the storm sped away from us at light speed, we decided to go fill up at a gas station and go for more storms down the line. I'll never forgot the look on this kid's face - he looked like he had seen a ghost and crapped his pants. We asked if he was OK, and ready to keep going, and his response was very low key and monotone.

"No, I'm ready to go home. I don't want to do this anymore."

 

[Will Campbell]

I'm driving as fast as I safely can in heavy precip on a gravel road. If the gravel road I took was washed out a little, or we slid off the road...

Not that it would make you feel any better about your encounter, but we took a very similar path as your yellow escape route. I chase in a Wrangler Unlimited with aggressive tread tires that do very well in mud and muck, never got me stuck, but it was dang close that day. We also were behind the ball as we watched a tower going up initially that was SW of the main storm. By the time we stopped being dumb and headed north, we were destined to be playing catch-up all day. We were about 15 miles away when the storm was producing the Stanton tornado, and intended to continue north on 81 to catch 275 eastbound to catch back up. Big problems. Norfolk traffic was crazy so we cut east and north on country roads to link up with 275. The roads were very wet and slow going, then we came across the damage path of the Stanton tornado on 275 about the same time we saw the two tornadoes to our South-east. As we continued on we got stuck in traffic and decided we probably wouldn't make HWY15 north due to damage and traffic so we zig-zagged north and east (having a small vortex spin up on the road right next to us. Assuming it was some phenomena resulting from clashing inflow/rfd, but it was very violent and spun the car behind us.) We were still behind the storm and had good view of the tornadoes as they eventually merged into what we perceived as one large wedge as precip and terrain would allow us occasional views. We met up with HWY15 a few miles north of 275.

We turned east on to 848th road which in a perfect world would put us out right at the northward turn of HWY16 to the west of Pender. Where the lines turn red is where things go interesting. I'm thinking perhaps your escape route would have been a mile north or south of 848th road? As the lines in the picture turn red, the road turned from nice maintained gravel into a no-maintenance dirt (mud/clay slop) road. We continued east to the red X where the farmstead was completely destroyed and power lines blocked our eastward travel. We hoped out and made sure everyone was ok, thankfully they were. The owner advised I could either wait for utilities to clear the power lines, or go back to the intersection to the west, and then go north 1 mile to get back on gravel. Hesitantly I did, and since we were behind the storms I felt comfortable doing so. Even in a Wrangler with MT tires and plenty of time spent tearing through mud in my younger years, we were at a crawl everywhere the lines were red. Forward speeds approx 5mph and struggling to keep the Jeep strait as ruts and runoff tried to pull us off the road. I'm very glad you didn't choose that road because that could have been pretty sketchy if you were in front of the storm at that time. And if you aren't in a high-clearance 4wd vehicle you'd probably be stuck. Even if you make it through the mud the "bridges" there were huge concrete slabs that had the road on each side washed down leaving almost a 1 foot ledge to climb up and drop off. I thought we would be stuck but managed to climb through and get back to gravel.

We eventually caught back up with the storm. It still had 2 distinct mesos for quite awhile, and produced a brief tornado near Jackson on HWY20 before the storm went poof. In closing, I'm glad you were able to navigate your escape route to get out of the way. It seems like another mile north or south could have yielded a far different outcome. Not sure what you drive, but it likely would have been 5-10mph driving for 2-3 miles, or just plain stuck in the mud.