Legislation to Create a National Disaster Review Board

Bill,

I couldn't agree more. During my career (I'm now retired), there were numerous times we tried to get mission-critical reports to the NWS and they just didn't care or were hostile.

They've lost their moral standing to complain about not getting reports.

Mike
 
Here's a brief update:
  • NWS was supposed to issue a statement on the unwarned Whitman, NE (EF-3) tornado this morning. It didn't happen. My guess is, regardless of how egregious this event was, the NWS never admits it was at fault....OR....
  • They are going to wait until the potential hurricane in the Atlantic gets going and then release the statement in hopes it will be "old news" and that the hurricane will be of greater interest.
  • I have been able to confirm the outage had nothing to do with the lack of warning.
 
As someone who's been quite the supporter of reporting to NWS, I can't help but feel a bit discouraged lately. I'm on the report quality review of Spotter Network and have submitted over 300 reports. I've always pressed people to report more.

It is my understanding that SN is no longer reporting/dumping into NWS Chat since their move to slack. Last I knew (correct me if the status has changed) there was no hurry to get it re-integrated. It's also hard to not be discouraged when yet again chasers are calling and submitting reports and no warning is issued. "It came without warning" was supposed to not happen. The IT outages at the NWS have also been quite detrimental this year. I saw that this latest one was possibly caused by a router given the same IP as one in the datacenter and plugged in. If that's the case, that's utter incompetence or done on purpose.

I realize this has still been the outlier than the norm, and is nothing new. March 8, 2010 comes to mind in Hammon, Oklahoma.
 
Here's the thing---all these un-warned reports are being used as an excuse for another accu-weather bill

Natural Disaster review Board?

we might not even have a NOAA.

Jeff,

While I dislike going over this ground yet again, I will because it is important. There are multiple issues you bring up in your comment.

As far as I am concerned, it would be great if there was no NOAA. NOAA is killing the NWS. They refused gap-filler radars, they are starving it of resources, and while it has been three years ago, the NOAA jet was unavailable for hurricane recon because it was doing "climate research" in Mexico. The nation would be far better off if the NWS was a stand-alone agency like NASA.

As to the "AccuWeather bill" you probably think you know what was in it based on rumor rather than reading the bill. Here's your chance to read the bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/senate-bill/786/text You see that it does not privatize the NWS. You see that it does focus the NWS on storm forecasting and storm warnings. It does say the NWS cannot provide specialized services to entities like electric companies (something they were starting to do in the early 2000's). It also says the NWS must provide all of its data and forecasts to everyone. Back in the early 2000's, we found out the NWS was creating a category of thunderstorm and severe thunderstorm guidance that it was providing to UCAR and other entities but not broadcast or private sector meteorologists. As we taxpayers fund the NWS, if they are going to create and provide something, it should go to everyone.

Saturday, we saw the effects of a catastrophic failure of government. The family of Cory Comparatore buried him today. He died shielding his daughter from gunfire. Two others were critically injured and a presidential candidate wounded.

In Joplin, the NWS (and local emergency management) catastrophically failed to do their jobs properly and 161 people died. AccuWeather, ironically since you brought them up, did its job flawlessly. We told our clients in Joplin, more than 30 minutes before the tornado reached the west side of the city, that "a tornado will move east across Joplin." The Missouri & Northern Arkansas Railroad (KCS didn't have any trains in the area at the time) moved a train out of the path along with the people accompanying the train. They sent us an emotional letter thanking us two days after the storm.

Just last month, the Whitman NE Tornado was utterly unwarned in spite of it being completely obvious on radar and members of StormTrack (and others, including the local EM) pleading with them to issue a TOR. They declined to do so. Town Destroyed -- National Weather Service Misses Another Strong Tornado

There were serious issues with the weather forecasts involving the Maui Fire (103 dead) last year, with the forecasts for Hurricane Ian (155 dead, the worst in Florida since the 1938 Labor Day Hurricane) and for the recent Hurricane Beryl.

My point in citing these is that government can screw up very badly. Had AccuWeather failed, our clients would have fired us. Accountability! The Secret Service or NWS accountability? Not so much. The NDRB is an attempt to move in that direction because it seems that is the only way those issues will be fixed.

So, while I am not currently in favor of a bill like Santorum's, if the NWS's continued deterioration continues, what would be so bad about the private sector providing these services?

Let me state again, I am not (at this time) favoring a change in mission of the NWS. I'm asking this philosophically.
 
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Hi Everyone,

The horrific disaster in the southern Appalachians is a perfect example of why the United States should join most other nations and have a National Disaster Review Board (NDRB).

Yesterday, I was interviewed by prominent environmental reporter Andrew Revkin on the topic of the topic of the inadequate forecasts for Helene's inland flooding and how a NDRB would work in general and, especially, in a future flood catastrophe of this nature. That interview is here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC7rWEkPQGM&t=2s

As this is political season, if you agree with Andy and me -- and plenty of others -- that a NDRB should be created, please let your congresspeople know.
 
Hello Everyone,

Here is an update on the Whitman non-warning and the fatal non-warning for Livonia (Detroit suburb) last month.
Whitman Unwarned Tornado, Part Two; Livonia Fatal Unwarned Tornado Reports

Representative Debbie Dingel and three other representatives have sent a letter to the NWS requesting answers as to why there was no warning. I hope that Congress will conduct a full investigation.

By the way, there's a very obvious difference between an unwarned violent tornado that lasted for many scans (Whitman EF3) and an unwarned brief tornado that only lasted for one or two scans (Livonia EF1)
 
By the way, there's a very obvious difference between an unwarned violent tornado that lasted for many scans (Whitman EF3) and an unwarned brief tornado that only lasted for one or two scans (Livonia EF1)

I'm not sure what point you are making. The whole point of tornado warnings is to give people advance notice that a tornado is going to occur in their area. At the time of a forming or in-progress tornado, you do not know how long it is going to last.

Livonia occurred in a densely populated area. One person died and a family's life was turned upside down. Could a quality warning have saved her? We don't know. But we do know this: The NWS never issued a tornado warning on that tornado.
 
The horrific disaster in the southern Appalachians is a perfect example of why the United States should...have a National Disaster Review Board (NDRB).
Screenshot 2024-10-03 at 8.35.07 AM.jpeg
I agree. A lot went on with this event both naturally & socially. Soil in some locations received pretreatment w/ rain, and tropical-storm moisture encountered a mid-latitude system. We saw orographic lift on the western sides of mountains, some locations could have been engineered, or a few locations not engineered enough. And in today's world of info-overload, what did people hear, how did they react? What could be changed?
 
Mike,

I haven't read the bill, so I will ask you. What qualifies as a disaster in the Bill? only terrestrial? or are space impacts a consideration in it as well.

thanks!
 
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