Van DeWald
EF2
Hmm, and a little bit of belly too.
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-
After witnessing the continued decrease of involvement in the SpotterNetwork staff in serving SN members with troubleshooting issues recently, I have unilaterally decided to terminate the relationship between SpotterNetwork's support and Stormtrack. I have witnessed multiple users unable to receive support weeks after initiating help threads on the forum. I find this lack of response from SpotterNetwork officials disappointing and a failure to hold up their end of the agreement that was made years ago, before I took over management of this site. In my opinion, having Stormtrack users sit and wait for so long to receive help on SpotterNetwork issues on the Stormtrack forums reflects poorly not only on SpotterNetwork, but on Stormtrack and (by association) me as well. Since the issue has not been satisfactorily addressed, I no longer wish for the Stormtrack forum to be associated with SpotterNetwork.
I apologize to those who continue to have issues with the service and continue to see their issues left unaddressed. Please understand that the connection between ST and SN was put in place long before I had any say over it. But now that I am the "captain of this ship," it is within my right (nay, duty) to make adjustments as I see necessary. Ending this relationship is such an adjustment.
For those who continue to need help, I recommend navigating a web browswer to SpotterNetwork's About page, and seeking the individuals listed on that page for all further inquiries about SpotterNetwork.
From this moment forward, the SpotterNetwork sub-forum has been hidden/deleted and there will be no assurance that any SpotterNetwork issues brought up in any of Stormtrack's other sub-forums will be addressed. Do not rely on Stormtrack for help with SpotterNetwork issues.
Sincerely, Jeff D.
Leach chasers – it has to stop.
- Thread starter Stuart Robinson
- Start date
Hmm, and a little bit of belly too.
Warren Faidley
Supporter
Since ST is user friendly now days and has rules against personal attacks (this is good), I strongly suggest we shoot the idiots and put them on YouTube -- then let the chasers decide, just like the recent chaser arrest.
W.
W.
Mikey Gribble
EF5
I don't know if it was the same crew mentioned earlier, but whoever had the three white vans (which probably applies to 90% of the tour groups) was behaving like a jackass on Friday. There was a dirt road that I fully intended to go down, but unfortunately they parked all three vans to intentionally block off the road so that the hord of people they had with them could set their tripods up in the road. I really wish I would have turned around and said something, but we were in a real hurry trying to stay in position since the storms were moving so fast. Come on though. Where do you get off blocking the roads like that? I am sure they know who they are.
I watched my video from Saturday in Garfield County and got a good chukcle out of that. I didn't ever remember doing it, but there were some local yocals parked in the middle of the road (like six of them) and I yelled "pull off the road imbreds". I was apparently talking to myself because I was chasing alone. At least I thought it was pretty funny. Mostly because I didn't remember doing it. I was trying to catch back up to the developing wedge which was about a mile north of me at the time so I was in one hell of a hurry. Somebody is going to loose a car door if they keep this parking in the middle of the road crap up. I will park blocking the road if I'm in close and I need to face the car towards the tornado (due to rain and needing wipers), but if anybody is coming I will absolutely move out of the way before they ever get to me.
Back to the topic at hand. I don't mind other chasers following along with me (which happens some times), but I don't really care for the locals that do it. I had some high school kids yesterday in Kingman come up to me at the gas station and ask where to drive to to see a tornado. I told them there probably wasn't going to be any tornadoes, but there was some huge hail (4 inch stones had just been reported), so I advised against driving into the storm. This kid kept after it though and said he wanted to see some huge hail and asked how to get to that (he had a smoking hot girl with him BTW, but that's neither here nor there). I quickly explained what that would do to his car and then gladly pointed him in the right direction lol. If he wants it I'll give it to him. Who am I to stand in the way of somebody's dream to see gorilla hail... I obviously don't know what happened, but he couldn't have possibly known what he was potentially getting in to. Baseball hail pounding your car will make you want to curl up in a ball and cry. If he found his monster hail I am betting he wasn't so pumped about when it hit. To each their own though. He said he wanted an insurance check out of the deal and 4 inch hail will certainly accomodate that.
I watched my video from Saturday in Garfield County and got a good chukcle out of that. I didn't ever remember doing it, but there were some local yocals parked in the middle of the road (like six of them) and I yelled "pull off the road imbreds". I was apparently talking to myself because I was chasing alone. At least I thought it was pretty funny. Mostly because I didn't remember doing it. I was trying to catch back up to the developing wedge which was about a mile north of me at the time so I was in one hell of a hurry. Somebody is going to loose a car door if they keep this parking in the middle of the road crap up. I will park blocking the road if I'm in close and I need to face the car towards the tornado (due to rain and needing wipers), but if anybody is coming I will absolutely move out of the way before they ever get to me.
Back to the topic at hand. I don't mind other chasers following along with me (which happens some times), but I don't really care for the locals that do it. I had some high school kids yesterday in Kingman come up to me at the gas station and ask where to drive to to see a tornado. I told them there probably wasn't going to be any tornadoes, but there was some huge hail (4 inch stones had just been reported), so I advised against driving into the storm. This kid kept after it though and said he wanted to see some huge hail and asked how to get to that (he had a smoking hot girl with him BTW, but that's neither here nor there). I quickly explained what that would do to his car and then gladly pointed him in the right direction lol. If he wants it I'll give it to him. Who am I to stand in the way of somebody's dream to see gorilla hail... I obviously don't know what happened, but he couldn't have possibly known what he was potentially getting in to. Baseball hail pounding your car will make you want to curl up in a ball and cry. If he found his monster hail I am betting he wasn't so pumped about when it hit. To each their own though. He said he wanted an insurance check out of the deal and 4 inch hail will certainly accomodate that.
Mikey Gribble
EF5
I just saw that picture of the chaser convergence lol. I'm not so sure that guy isn't leaning against the bumper trying to take a low profile deuce out his pant leg. I also think he's showing a little brain, which I could do without. He has a pretty nice sweat V worked up on his shirt, which also feeds in to the whole making a secret deuce concept.
Brandon Sullivan
EF5
Since I never really took a position earlier..
I have no problem with people following me. To me it is kind of cool, to think that people think I am smart (or crazy) enough to go find a storm with a tornado is cool.
And I have no problem helping others, but if you get in my way, take my time, block my shot, block my road (never happened to me, but sorry you guys had that, that is ridiculous!!) you will hear about it..
I think that chasers are like a family, there to help others, but every good chaser should know what is right and wrong, and when the time is right to be wherever.
I can say that it is tempting to look at some of the bigger names on Spotter Network heading for a cell, and wanting to follow. But complicating a complicated situation is not good for anybody.
Now half the time, people will follow you, and never do anything wrong, and that is totally cool with me. You can meet new people/chasers/friends and even learn some things..
I have no problem with people following me. To me it is kind of cool, to think that people think I am smart (or crazy) enough to go find a storm with a tornado is cool.
And I have no problem helping others, but if you get in my way, take my time, block my shot, block my road (never happened to me, but sorry you guys had that, that is ridiculous!!) you will hear about it..
I think that chasers are like a family, there to help others, but every good chaser should know what is right and wrong, and when the time is right to be wherever.
I can say that it is tempting to look at some of the bigger names on Spotter Network heading for a cell, and wanting to follow. But complicating a complicated situation is not good for anybody.
Now half the time, people will follow you, and never do anything wrong, and that is totally cool with me. You can meet new people/chasers/friends and even learn some things..
Steve Polley
EF2
I didnt see the problems with the white vans that others have mentioned but on Friday 5-23 between Shields and Utica, KS on K-4, someone in a silver car was parked half on the road facing west in the eastbound lane. Of course I had to weed my way through all of the traffic. As I passed by, he looked puzzled as I pointed at him and shook my head. After I passed, he finally repositioned off of the road. I guess it was ok for him to do this since he had his arrowstick on in the back deck. 
A little common sense goes a long ways.
A little common sense goes a long ways.
Chris Hayes
EF5
The guy in the picture is my grandpa. I dont know if he was taking a leak at the time or what was going on. LOL. I'm in the truck gathering data.
Tony Perkins
EF2
We also observed the convergence at the I-70 exit in Mike's picture. When we exited, the road on the south side of the ramp was partially blocked by tour vans and whatnot, but the tour group was completely blocking the rest of the road just standing there. So we headed for the north side. They eventually had to move to proper pull off positions to let a local farmer get by in his tractor. It's good that there is respect for the locals.
Below is a picture of a huge convergence clogging a road to get out of the way of the beast coming up to Ness City on Friday.
Below is a picture of a huge convergence clogging a road to get out of the way of the beast coming up to Ness City on Friday.
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Mikey Gribble
EF5
I was just joking around Chris. I feel bad now since it's your grandpa and I would be pissed if somebody made a joke about my dad. Then again I did think the "low profile deuce" comment was a good observation lol. No offense buddy. I honestly think it's great when chasers take family members out to show them what we do. I know my dad gets a real kick out of it and I love taking him just to see how pumped he gets.
If somebody wants to follow along they should probably come ask first, but I don't understand why it is really that big of a deal. I don't do it or anything, but I can understand wanting to follow an experienced chaser if you are just getting started. Not everybody out there has equipment and the knowledge neccessary to get in the right spot (at least when they first start out). If it is somebody that is making an effort to get started in chasing I am glad to help if I have the time. I do take chasing very seriously though and I have come across as pretty rude in the past when people have come up to me when I'm trying to forecast. I don't try to be rude, but I just don't have time to talk when I'm trying to work on the chase. That is the time when I don't want anybody screwing with me. Once I start driving though if you want to follow along have at it. I won't go out of my way to meet you and I won't stop and wait up for people unless it is an invited guest, but so long as you can keep up you can follow me all day long. We actually lost a guy that was following along with us last Friday, but we didn't stop and wait for him either. I'm not babysitting. That's where I draw the line. We drove fast and he didn't want to. So be it, but don't expect me to pull over and wait. We did wait up for the british guys that were with us (and I can't say enough good things about them, they were a blast to chase with and down for anything). They got caught behind though because of traffic, so it wasn't like it was their fault. I also loved hanging out with them so I was happy to pull over and wait. I'm not a jerk or anything. If somebody that is tagging along gets stuck I wouldn't even think about leaving them (which also happened this week), so I guess moments of distress like that go into a different category. I will always wait in that kind of situation.
Anyways, I really don't see it as that big of a deal if people follow along. We are all out there for the same thing. Just don't block the road.
If somebody wants to follow along they should probably come ask first, but I don't understand why it is really that big of a deal. I don't do it or anything, but I can understand wanting to follow an experienced chaser if you are just getting started. Not everybody out there has equipment and the knowledge neccessary to get in the right spot (at least when they first start out). If it is somebody that is making an effort to get started in chasing I am glad to help if I have the time. I do take chasing very seriously though and I have come across as pretty rude in the past when people have come up to me when I'm trying to forecast. I don't try to be rude, but I just don't have time to talk when I'm trying to work on the chase. That is the time when I don't want anybody screwing with me. Once I start driving though if you want to follow along have at it. I won't go out of my way to meet you and I won't stop and wait up for people unless it is an invited guest, but so long as you can keep up you can follow me all day long. We actually lost a guy that was following along with us last Friday, but we didn't stop and wait for him either. I'm not babysitting. That's where I draw the line. We drove fast and he didn't want to. So be it, but don't expect me to pull over and wait. We did wait up for the british guys that were with us (and I can't say enough good things about them, they were a blast to chase with and down for anything). They got caught behind though because of traffic, so it wasn't like it was their fault. I also loved hanging out with them so I was happy to pull over and wait. I'm not a jerk or anything. If somebody that is tagging along gets stuck I wouldn't even think about leaving them (which also happened this week), so I guess moments of distress like that go into a different category. I will always wait in that kind of situation.
Anyways, I really don't see it as that big of a deal if people follow along. We are all out there for the same thing. Just don't block the road.
Jason Boggs
That was no problem at all. Like Jay said, it was nice meeting you guys. I am always glad to help out a fellow chaser for whatever reason. I have asked for a radar update before when I can't get an update. I am always glad to do the same. I did not mind at all when you guys followed us around. Again, it was an enjoyable experience meeting you guys, and I look forward to meeting and becoming friends with others in the chase community.
Susan Strom
EF5
Below is a picture of a huge convergence clogging a road to get out of the way of the beast coming up to Ness City on Friday.
I have to say that makes me happy to be a nocturnal lightning photographer.
Dave Gallaher
EF5
Yes--and I think I'll stay in the Deep South, even with the trees and hills. The only comments I've had when pulled over have been folks checking to see if I needed help, informing me of the coming storm. Of course, my vehicle resembles something that would normally be impounded for hauling illegals to the farms.
Susan Strom
EF5
Me too; I have only seen convergences like that in the Plains on the tornadic stuff. Then when shooting lightning at night out there, no convergences (they have gone home) but poss funnels or hail in the dark to contend with. What hangs around can make for dicey moments. In the Southwestern deserts or plateau, I have the whole universe to myself and can shoot lightning until dawn. Pure heaven if you ask me. Rare is the convergence, however there can be funky people, drunk guys out causing trouble, border patrol, border runners, tourists, that kind of stuff to watch for. Still, 118,000 sq mi (AZ) is a lot of chase country and with an avg of half million lightning strikes during a monsoon season, a few will come home with me that's for sure, in remote locations away from convergences of any sort.
Jason A.C. Brock
NOT ALL ABOUT THE TORNADOES.
You are probbaly right about people looking at some parts of the storms that arent tornadic....and im sure alot of these people think it may be tornadic. However dont assume all of us out there are just in it for the tornadoes. I know some chasers will call a day a ust if they see no tornado at all......and I know some chasers who only call it a bust if its a clear sky bust. I myself would take a beautiful structured supercell like the one we witnessed Monday In Greer and Harmon Counties of Oklahoma over a brief dust spin up tornado any day. Thats is just me tho. We all chase for the storms....but there are aspects of the storm that we all like more or less than others according to what we like to see. I like to try and get pics like Hollingshead......video to do good timelapse....and I loooove tornadoes dont get me wrong.....but I want photogenic tornadoes....I dont want to drive under the thing and see dust going from left to right.
I have had news crews follow me in the past.....as long as they dont hinder me from doing what I want to do I dont mind. I will tell locals to not follow me and I would hate to see them end up getting hailed on etc....and most will go on there way.
Chasing around OKC tho is getting bad....I hate chasing Dallas cuz of the traffic but I am getting to hate chasing any county that surrounds Norman due to the chaser hordes....even when alot of chasers are in the really good areas such as up North Thursday & even Saturday ....OKC area is horrible. I am afraid their nonstop media action has made alot of locals basically local area chasers.
As long as nobody gets hurt I am good...but as soon as someone pulls something that will endanger myself or innocent travelers.....it just irritates me. I have seen some pretty disapointing things in some people the past few days and trust me im no saint.....but I dont put myself in danger in purpose and If I do I make sure my actions wont hurt someone else. I saw an NBC chase vehicle standing in the paved road on a hill ...hwy 9 in OK with speed limit of 65....yes i have your plates....but posting them would solve nothing.....A caravan of chasers....possibly a tour group pass me in a town going 60 mph with speed limit of 25 only to get in front of me going 40 AFTER THE TOWN....and I would have had their plates if they were not so covered in mud ya couldnt read them.....and I watched video of a chaser spin off the road....and it wasnt that he spun off the road....god knows the dirt roads in Kansas might as well be ice when they get a trace of rain on them (Its called GRAVEL Kansas....look it up) but it was that chasers just drove by him and didnt stop to help...even ask him if he was ok.
Btw....my buddy helped the NBC news crew later when they had a flat tire and they nearly made him swerve off the road itnoa ditch flagging him down.....they didnt even say as much as a thank you....and he got drenched in rain...then later got nailed with huge hail.....
Its not the things I have seen the past weeks that make me sad....Its just that it seems nobody has any just an old fashioned common Curtious mind set anymore. We have just all gotten selfish and conceited and full of pride and want the big payoff with as little work as possible.... we see other people as obstacles to avoid or get around and them being annoying rather than trying to enjoy all of each other as what we all really are....HUMAN BEINGS...who happen to love not just tornadoes....not just severe storms.....not just weather....but nature itself.
I dont mind all the chasers...I used to get upset about how close some people got...but as long as they arent hurting anyone except maybe themselves by choice or at least takin that risk (altho I see a day when chasing will be regulated) but I do mind seeing people just be....well ......dumb and put others at risk who have no say in the matter.
Rant over.....lets stop focusing on getting to the tornado as soon as possible and screw whoever gets in the way...and focus on chasing storms safely..
Btw the Vici law enforcement were awesome. They gave us a nice place to view our storm and we gave them radar data in return for no ticket....yes I was speeding.
...doing 43 in a 35 and was slowing down cuz I was looking for a speed limit sign....200 yards down the road the speed was 45. My chase partner pulls up and yells "GIVE HIM A BIG FAT TICKET!" 
Maybe they just wanted to look at our radar.....cling on cop stormchasers? hmmmmmm
We have all done things that if we knew others were watching us we would feel kinda guilty about it while chasing.....just as long as its not a habit and not with a "screw you" attitude.
BTW I dont read replies.....lol
You can also find it a bit Ironic in one way tho.....alot of chasers say about others "They need realize they dont own the road" yet they go around yelling to everyone as if they are the ones who own it.
Everyone is different.....its jsut the ones who dont have common sense that scare me.
Some people need to get the fame out of their eyes and maybe get the pretty voices coming out of the backseat out of their heads and instead put a brain between their ears.
Stuart, you read my mind on creating this thread.
After the last several days of chasing, I am convinced someone is going to be killed by a tornado very soon because there are a ton of wannabe chasers who have zero clue about basic supercell structure. More than a ton of times this past weekend, I saw people pulled over on the road filming areas of the storm that were not even close to being tornadic.
Not only that, but I also experienced a ton of leeches as well as local yahoos. Of course, I was also passed by a POS black chevy going 90-100 today as well as I TOPPED a hill. I got that one on film and might share it.
Either way, I want to highlight a few good things this weekend as well. We were all newbs at one time and I met a few guys that were definitely less experienced this past weekend that were awesome guys and were doing everything right in terms of following the storms and keeping a safe distance and filming a rotating wall cloud (and not a shelf cloud).
Even though I only have 6 years on me (a lot less compared to a lot of you other guys I know) I kind of am feeling a bit of responsibility for the newbs and rooks out there running around. All in all...I really think this past weekend was a bit out of hand in terms of "yahooness."
EDIT: This doesn't include some interactions with locals wanting to be storm chasers...Saturday was especially bad. You'd almost think there was a game or something going on with all the tailgating I saw
You are probbaly right about people looking at some parts of the storms that arent tornadic....and im sure alot of these people think it may be tornadic. However dont assume all of us out there are just in it for the tornadoes. I know some chasers will call a day a ust if they see no tornado at all......and I know some chasers who only call it a bust if its a clear sky bust. I myself would take a beautiful structured supercell like the one we witnessed Monday In Greer and Harmon Counties of Oklahoma over a brief dust spin up tornado any day. Thats is just me tho. We all chase for the storms....but there are aspects of the storm that we all like more or less than others according to what we like to see. I like to try and get pics like Hollingshead......video to do good timelapse....and I loooove tornadoes dont get me wrong.....but I want photogenic tornadoes....I dont want to drive under the thing and see dust going from left to right.
I have had news crews follow me in the past.....as long as they dont hinder me from doing what I want to do I dont mind. I will tell locals to not follow me and I would hate to see them end up getting hailed on etc....and most will go on there way.
Chasing around OKC tho is getting bad....I hate chasing Dallas cuz of the traffic but I am getting to hate chasing any county that surrounds Norman due to the chaser hordes....even when alot of chasers are in the really good areas such as up North Thursday & even Saturday ....OKC area is horrible. I am afraid their nonstop media action has made alot of locals basically local area chasers.
As long as nobody gets hurt I am good...but as soon as someone pulls something that will endanger myself or innocent travelers.....it just irritates me. I have seen some pretty disapointing things in some people the past few days and trust me im no saint.....but I dont put myself in danger in purpose and If I do I make sure my actions wont hurt someone else. I saw an NBC chase vehicle standing in the paved road on a hill ...hwy 9 in OK with speed limit of 65....yes i have your plates....but posting them would solve nothing.....A caravan of chasers....possibly a tour group pass me in a town going 60 mph with speed limit of 25 only to get in front of me going 40 AFTER THE TOWN....and I would have had their plates if they were not so covered in mud ya couldnt read them.....and I watched video of a chaser spin off the road....and it wasnt that he spun off the road....god knows the dirt roads in Kansas might as well be ice when they get a trace of rain on them (Its called GRAVEL Kansas....look it up) but it was that chasers just drove by him and didnt stop to help...even ask him if he was ok.
Btw....my buddy helped the NBC news crew later when they had a flat tire and they nearly made him swerve off the road itnoa ditch flagging him down.....they didnt even say as much as a thank you....and he got drenched in rain...then later got nailed with huge hail.....
Its not the things I have seen the past weeks that make me sad....Its just that it seems nobody has any just an old fashioned common Curtious mind set anymore. We have just all gotten selfish and conceited and full of pride and want the big payoff with as little work as possible.... we see other people as obstacles to avoid or get around and them being annoying rather than trying to enjoy all of each other as what we all really are....HUMAN BEINGS...who happen to love not just tornadoes....not just severe storms.....not just weather....but nature itself.
I dont mind all the chasers...I used to get upset about how close some people got...but as long as they arent hurting anyone except maybe themselves by choice or at least takin that risk (altho I see a day when chasing will be regulated) but I do mind seeing people just be....well ......dumb and put others at risk who have no say in the matter.
Rant over.....lets stop focusing on getting to the tornado as soon as possible and screw whoever gets in the way...and focus on chasing storms safely..
Btw the Vici law enforcement were awesome. They gave us a nice place to view our storm and we gave them radar data in return for no ticket....yes I was speeding.
...doing 43 in a 35 and was slowing down cuz I was looking for a speed limit sign....200 yards down the road the speed was 45. My chase partner pulls up and yells "GIVE HIM A BIG FAT TICKET!" Maybe they just wanted to look at our radar.....cling on cop stormchasers? hmmmmmmWe have all done things that if we knew others were watching us we would feel kinda guilty about it while chasing.....just as long as its not a habit and not with a "screw you" attitude.
BTW I dont read replies.....lol
You can also find it a bit Ironic in one way tho.....alot of chasers say about others "They need realize they dont own the road" yet they go around yelling to everyone as if they are the ones who own it.
Everyone is different.....its jsut the ones who dont have common sense that scare me.
Some people need to get the fame out of their eyes and maybe get the pretty voices coming out of the backseat out of their heads and instead put a brain between their ears.
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Bill Hark
EF5
I guess I'll jump into this thread. Over the years, especially before many chasers have wireless cards, I have had chasers ask me about the radar or other data when I have been running Threatnet. I certainly don't mind sharing information. I also enjoy the conversation if I am not busy. Many other chasers have helped me out with info when I have been missing data.
As for locals, most don't ask me, "where do I see the tornadee?" They are just scared for themselves or their loved ones and want to avoid the severe weather. Besides being "good kharma", the local that you are polite to may be the local that helps pull you or another chaser out of a ditch someday.
If somebody wants to follow me, that's their problem or benefit. I've had people follow me but I really don't care as long as they don't block my escape route or tailgate. I am too focused on the storm. Getting mad a chase leach or roach is wasted effort. Following another chaser is no guarantee of success as even the best miss things. Besides, if I tell somebody, "please follow me, I'll lead you to the tornado", I am setting myself up for a lawsuit if something were to happen.
As for complaints of chaser convergences, get used to it. There are more chasers on the road with better data. Years ago, a storm could fire 30 miles way and I would miss it if there is haze. Now, I see the first blip of the cap breaking and I take off. Also, there are limited road options in many areas. For example, on May 23 of this year, I chose to remain on paved roads which limited me, but I didn't want to get stuck in the mud. Many other chasers were doing the same thing. They weren't leaching of each other, they just came to the same decision.
Bill Hark
As for locals, most don't ask me, "where do I see the tornadee?" They are just scared for themselves or their loved ones and want to avoid the severe weather. Besides being "good kharma", the local that you are polite to may be the local that helps pull you or another chaser out of a ditch someday.
If somebody wants to follow me, that's their problem or benefit. I've had people follow me but I really don't care as long as they don't block my escape route or tailgate. I am too focused on the storm. Getting mad a chase leach or roach is wasted effort. Following another chaser is no guarantee of success as even the best miss things. Besides, if I tell somebody, "please follow me, I'll lead you to the tornado", I am setting myself up for a lawsuit if something were to happen.
As for complaints of chaser convergences, get used to it. There are more chasers on the road with better data. Years ago, a storm could fire 30 miles way and I would miss it if there is haze. Now, I see the first blip of the cap breaking and I take off. Also, there are limited road options in many areas. For example, on May 23 of this year, I chose to remain on paved roads which limited me, but I didn't want to get stuck in the mud. Many other chasers were doing the same thing. They weren't leaching of each other, they just came to the same decision.
Bill Hark
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