Lack of Respect

[James Gustina]

Well guys i'm not sure who else has seen this but it seems TWC is now attacking every chaser that is not part of Vortex2. One of my friends was watching a weather channel live feed yesterday and this popped in:
"everyone should move out the way of vortex 2, that includes storm chase fanatics, as vortex 2 is out there to work out why tornadoes form and work out how to forecast them, and as you the tax payer pays for them, you should move and not clog up the roads where they are trying to work"

Basically a "you don't deserve to be on the same road" type of comment. Now I understand the chaser convergence yesterday was psychotic but saying every chaser needs to just get off the road or off the storm is silly. What V2 is trying to do is good, but TWC is in no position to be telling anyone what they should be doing. So what does everyone else think of this?

 

[Chris Hayes]

I was out there on 33 yesterday and it was amazing and crazy all the chasers up there. HOWEVER, I will not stop chasing because V2 is out there. Nor will I get off the road because the V2 armada is behind me. I have every right to be on the road as V2 does. Unless they turn into a bunch of ambulances, fire trucks, or cop cars I'm not going to pull over for them

 

[Jim Zandonai]

I heard the comment by Wurman but did not hear TWC's comments. I was not there in OK. and by the looks of things am glad I was not even though I earlier thought I would want to be. There is another thread on chaser convergence so going to stay clear of that..but the thing that seems kind of hypocritical here is doesn't Josh Wurman attend storm chasing conventions ? The v2 team should have expected this yesterday.
Second TWC had storm chasers on the phone constantly over the last 2 days looking for info..and TWC then bashed them ? It doesnt make sense. No one not even V2,the TIV,TDC,or anyone has anymore right to a storm then anyone else.Too bad that its crowded.. No one likes a crowd.
I think V2 was frustrated but they have to understand that the way things are today. Probably not a future problem since apparently they are on their last year. I was just praising TWC on their coverage the last couple days and this season but wonder if they will allow Dr.forbes and Cantorie to continue this type of coverage after V2 and Bettes wraps up shop ?

 

[James Gustina]

And Chuck Doswell said it best on his blog post. Josh Wurman had as much a hand in creating the monster as anyone else did. He was on Storm Chasers for i think 2 seasons? Trying to place blame on others for failing to get their precious data is extremely indicative of an ###hole. Not to bash V2, that's not what this thread is for, but they've had other opportunities besides May 19th to get their data, playing the blame game doesn't change that fact.

 

[terra seright]

They were telling others where to be during another chase. No getting in between their vehices while they were parked, as if they had a right to tell everyone what to do. It was ridiculous.

As for the TIV...if they had not publicized it in the first place, this would not be such an issue. When people see that truck, it is natural that they would want to go out and see what they can see.

 

[Jennifer Palmer]

I'm sure other people have mentioned this, but it's silly for them to get upset about all the chasers or followers around them when TWC announces to everyone watching exactly where they are.

 

[Chris Hayes]

Storm Chasers TV show on for a couple years + high risk day + OKC metro area = big chaser crowds. Something we'll have to get used to unfortunately

 

[Dean Baron]

This is a serious post. I mean, geez this is what the 4th thread about this? C'mon guys, its the heat of the chase season, there are so many better things for us to be doing right now than worrying and bitching about this stuff. If people still want too complain, I dont think it should be too hard to find the other 4 threads that talk about exactly what this thread was created to discuss. To me it's pointless though, its no more than beating a dead horse at this point.

 

[Jason Foster]

Oh...come on Dean...you should have learned by this week alone that beating the dead horse is part of the game now....as are endless threads about it. Besides it's great entertainment to read.

I mean hell...if there can be four threads about TWC being dropped by Dish...than certainly we can have 4 threads about how horrible chasers are...LOL.

 

[Mike Moore]

Basically a "you don't deserve to be on the same road" type of comment.

Well to be fair that's your interpretation of what they said. Asking people to give him the right of way and saying we "don't deserve to be on the same road" are two different things. I may have missed something, but I don't think that's what they said verbatim. I agree with you though that the "anti-chaser" mood of some of the TWC feeds has been awkward.

I think it's not a simple issue, and I don't think it's going to get better but this has made me think about my own priorities. I mean really, it would be selfish of me to hold up a scientific team trying to make a real difference when my only purpose for chasing is photography. Everyone has the same "right" to be on the road, but I realize I don't serve the same "purpose" on that road.

If in the future I find them in my rearview I'll pull over and let them pass.

My .02

 

[Jeff Snyder]

Standard disclaimer -- I speak on behalf of myself, and my views may or may not represent those of V2.

I don't think any VORTEX 2 PI is naive enough to think that there will not be chaser convergence on some days. We talked about it quite a bit last year, but May 09 was terrible by and large, so we / the armada didn't have to deal with chaser convergence much. Everyone on the project is well aware of potential chaser convergence, but I imagine it's tough to decide how much of the potential for chaser convergence should affect decisions regarding operations/targets/etc.. We need to maximize each and every opportunity we have to collect data that could significant improve our understanding of tornadogenesis, etc., and we only have a limited number of weeks for 2 years to do so. We all know how most of last year's V2 operations went (until the last week of the project in June), so that makes it that much more important for us to maximize our opportunities this year. Of course, mistakes may be made from time-to-time, but hindsight is always 20/20, and nobody makes perfect forecasts all the time (which is partly why this project exists).

As others noted, I think Wednesday was nearly a perfect storm for massive traffic near storms -- a relatively small high risk with an obvious target (the WF/OFB) in May in central Oklahoma. As others noted, the advancement of technology (in-vehicle internet, internet-capable phones like the iPhone with RadarScope, etc.) has made finding a storm pretty easy. In addition, I really hesitate to call Wednesday's traffic jam an example of "chaser convergence". I really, really, really don't think that most of those folks were storm chasers. From what I saw, many were locals or near-locals, and I agree that it probably isn't helping if TWC is broadcasting the location of V2.

I think a traffic jam that gets run over with a hail core or meso will deter a lot of the non-chasers, but the Plains is an awfully large area, and I don't think it'll deter other locals who don't happen to "chase" that day and/or those well-removed from the storm. I also don't see how legislation can, constitutionally, deal with this problem... "It's illegal to drive when a bad storm is nearby?" Sure, maybe current laws (parking with any part of a vehicle within a lane, etc.)can be enforced more strictly, but I can't see how police could enforce a law that dictates when and where people can drive on public roadways.

 

[Mike Smith]

Jeff,

Now that there are four threads on this subject, I'm not sure what you might have seen or not seen.

I believe the suggestion to get a police escort is a good one. Vortex can hire off-duty police for this purpose. Otherwise, I tend to agree with the "everyone on the road is equal" comments. Since, in one of the threads, it was contended the DoW is not a problem let me state: I CAN document dangerous driving by the DOW (contact me privately).

I also -- respectfully -- suggest that Josh is the not the person to be commenting about this problem. As long as the DoW is passing people at 90 mph on a two-lane road (again, I can document) and "Discovery" vehicles are driving in an unsafe manner, he is in no position to be criticizing others regardless of whether he is personally responsible for the unsafe driving.

I think everyone needs to chill out a little about this and focus on driving safely before someone gets seriously hurt.

Mike

 

[Bryan Brownlie]

In Josh's defense, all he actually said was, you should pull over and let them past if you see them as it'll cost you all of about 30 seconds to do so. He didn't actually say in his blog anything pertaining to people not having a right to use the highway.

If I'm riding my bike and an organized bike event goes past, I get out the way, why would this be any different? Storm Chasing is a hobby for most, a passionate one, but a hobby all the same, it strikes me as just being good courtesy to move over. The people working on Vortex 2 have a lot more at stake for missing an opportunity than a piece of video. Reputations, careers, and large quantities of grant and tax payer money are all at stake. Really in that context does it hurt that much to just pull to the hard shoulder for a few seconds to let them shoot by as a matter of professional courtesy?

 

[Jay McCoy]

In Josh's defense, all he actually said was, you should pull over and let them past if you see them as it'll cost you all of about 30 seconds to do so. He didn't actually say in his blog anything pertaining to people not having a right to use the highway.

If I'm riding my bike and an organized bike event goes past, I get out the way, why would this be any different? Storm Chasing is a hobby for most, a passionate one, but a hobby all the same, it strikes me as just being good courtesy to move over. The people working on Vortex 2 have a lot more at stake for missing an opportunity than a piece of video. Reputations, careers, and large quantities of grant and tax payer money are all at stake. Really in that context does it hurt that much to just pull to the hard shoulder for a few seconds to let them shoot by as a matter of professional courtesy?

Thats easy to do if there are only a few cars that need to pull over but to ask hundreds of cars to pull over would cause more trouble than what we already had. And remember the DOW's and other V2 vehicles wont be passing you once. They move back and forth and set up and then move again so it would be a never ending process. You would never get anywhere if everybody had to pull over every few minutes and then get going again. Logistically its not possibile and more dangerous than everybody just following along and moving at 40-50mph.

And I think not only TWC braodcasting their location but OKC tv stations having non-stop coverage with chaser feeds/reports coming in made tons of locals come out also as usually happens around OKC, I try and avoid chasing around OKC for that very reason. Add in a single storm on a 2 lane road in a high risk and you had a perfect storm for chaos. I doubt this would have been near as bad out in western Kansas or something. Just seems everybody that lives around OKC is a chaser.

 

[Chris Sokol]

To top it all off, now News 9 in OKC is running a story on "Chasers breaking the traffic laws". LOL...as we all know the media chasers NEVER break those while out.