Impeding traffic flow - what to do

[Warren Faidley]

This topic came up in the VORTEX discussion so I thought it might be a good time to bring it, especially since it looks dead chase-wise (after this weekend) for some time if the models are correct.

The problem of vehicles impeding traffic will come up soon, I have no doubt, with the massive numbers of chasers, media and researchers out this year. I have been a victim of cars blocking the roadway, cars going way under the speed limit and cars/research/production vehicles following each other closely (either on purpose or not) so others cannot pass. Just last year, a moron was going about 35 in 70 mph zone as baseball hail was falling just to our left and we needed to get up to the next exit and turn right. It was not safe to pass for about 3 miles, but I eventually got around him, only to be delayed and put in the path of a ground hugging wall cloud.

Last week, I spoke to a highway patrolman in Texas about this subject while parked at a gas station. His answer was interesting. "If a vehicle is impeding the flow of traffic to the point where lives are endangered, any means necessary can be used to remove the vehicle." He added that if the person impeding traffic caused someone to be injured or killed, and the person knew the delay was putting others in jeopardy, then they could be arrested on a number of serious charges. He used the example of someone who delays an ambulance by not pulling over -- but the same "would apply to someone fleeing a dangerous situation and is blocked."

This brings up a number of ideas, like the PIT maneuver or pushing someone out of the way, as a last resort, if parked on a road. (Never mind the massive push bars on my chase truck). Of course anyone who did this would be in very serious trouble if the means did not justify the need. But what if a wedge was bearing down on you? What would you do?

Let the discussions begin!

W.

 

[Adam Lucio]

I too have massive push bars on my chase vehicle and there have been times I wished I could nudge slower moving people out of the way lol but I know I never would.

An officer may have said that but in real life I dont think it would hold up. It would basically come down to he said vs he said. You would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you and/or others were in imminent life threatening danger...and unless you have dashcam video of a person doing 20 in a 65 with a storm report showing the tornado was directly behind you doing damage Im not sure what else would work.

The slow poke could always come back and say "I didnt know there was a 2 mile wide wedge bearing down on me" and there is no way to prove that.

Im not saying I disagree with such a law if it indeed exists...but Im sure it would be a very complicated trial scenario...one that might be very hard to win if your the person who shoved someone off the road...and god forbid the person comes back with a [real or fake] neck injury or something and then youve got a whole nother can of worms to deal with.

 

[Jason Boggs]

I would do this if a person blocked the road and I was in danger from a tornado. I would turn the camcorder on, point it to the tornado coming in my direction, and then show the car blocking the road. I would then honk, and if that didn't work I would try to ram the vehicle out of my way. After the danger was over, I would be on the phone with the police with video available to prove what I did was justified.

 

[Scott Weberpal]

Last week, I spoke to a highway patrolman in Texas about this subject while parked at a gas station. His answer was interesting. "If a vehicle is impeding the flow of traffic to the point where lives are endangered, any means necessary can be used to remove the vehicle." He added that if the person impeding traffic caused someone to be injured or killed, and the person knew the delay was putting others in jeopardy, then they could be arrested on a number of serious charges. He used the example of someone who delays an ambulance by not pulling over -- but the same "would apply to someone fleeing a dangerous situation and is blocked."

This brings up a number of ideas, like the PIT maneuver or pushing someone out of the way, as a last resort, if parked on a road. (Never mind the massive push bars on my chase truck). Of course anyone who did this would be in very serious trouble if the means did not justify the need. But what if a wedge was bearing down on you? What would you do?

What happens if you push someone off the road who is in your way with a wedge bearing down on you, they get stuck because you push them and end up getting killed by the tornado? Where does the liability on either side end?

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

I think the hardest part about this will be pushing the car off the road that is 2-3 miles ahead at the start of the line of chasers.

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

At what point is the reasonable decision made that a person needs to be moved? What is reasonable to you, may not be the same for everyone else involved.
If you say 25, 30, 50, 60, is too slow and the whole line is doing this, are you going to pit everyone in line until you decide you can go on?
In the same respect, if you feel you are safe doing 65 -70 in a line of cars and the guy behind you thinks he should be doing 80-90, is it ok to pit you and everyone else so he can go on?

 

[CZandbergen]

You guys need to think twice about this whole push them out of the way idea. Besides being most likely illegal, it is harder to execute than you think. I race cars in SCCA and we do a lot of bump drafting and also have other contact from time to time. It isn't as easy as it looks watching NASCAR. If you try to push someone out of the way you may very well end up balled up in an accident with them. Not very smart.

 

[Jason Boggs]

Keep in mind, the only time I would bump someone out of the way is if they were stopped in the middle of the road blocking my way. Example...stopped in the road under an overpass while a tornado was bearing down on the location. I would never think about hitting someone while their car was actually moving.

 

[Brian Stertz]

This is a vexing situation....key is to use smarts and stay away from the cluster as hard as this may be. This spring may be tough with the multiple tour groups, the DOW-TIV menagerie and VORTEX-2 worlds colliding. As one local KC veteran chaser said.....this may be the year of sticking with the unconventional target area. He hit the nail on the freaking head !!

My guess is that the dryline will be like atmospheric fly trap and to get away from that chaser log-jam of sorts to stay unimpeded and in the clear. Looks like things are about to get cooking chasing wise so that times may be ready to implement Destination X.

 

[Brian Jalas]

Blocking traffic

On June 3, 2007 we were in Texas near Midland, we had a van fly past us doing something like 80 in a 55 zone, they then proceeded to stop right in the middle of the road about a mile ahead of us without even attempting to pull over to the side. We had to go around them as I was thinking, why was it so imprtant to pass us and then block our way jerks? There was not even a tornado around that time to look at.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

I wonder if I could pit a DOW with a Mustang.

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

I wonder if I could pit a DOW with a Mustang.

Do you want the Mustang back afterward?

 

[Scott Olson]

You would always go to jail for pushing another vehicle in any circumstance if you are not an emergency vehicle. Further, a vehicle going slow in a severe weather situation is actually legal given that motor vehicle regulations permit a driver can only drive what is safe given the weather/road conditions at the time. If it's raining, very windy, or a storm is real close you would never be able to justify such action.

If you can't pass, find another route or consider more ample consideration from the distance from circulations. That's just the reality of it, I'm with you Warren that I wish there wasn't so many vehicles out on southern plains chases (though I admit I chase alot in areas where ya' all aren't around). Still, the reality is, putting grandma into the ditch because she isn't all hyped up on adrenaline and wanting to conquer the sky is a bit on the crazy side. I'm all for living on the edge, let's just not take anyone to it with us.

This is a hillarious topic!!!

/Whispers to the Wind/
Scott Olson

 

[Jason Boggs]

I'll answer Warren's last question. If a wedge was bearing down on me, and I had no other alternative, I'd try to push the car out of my way.

Imagine this...you're going down the interstate and cars are parked under the overpass taking shelter (happens all the time). Cars are parked in the road and a wedge is bearing down on you. What would you do? I would do whatever means is necessary to keep myself safe. If that means pushing a car out of the way, then so be it. I'll take what's coming to me later, but I'll do whatever it takes to keep myself safe.

Do those people have a right to park in the road. Not really, but people make stupid decisions every day. I get upset when their stupid decision impacts MY safety.

 

[Simon Brewer]

If there were a line of chasers blocking my escape route from a large violent tornado then I would be forced to exit my vehicle and use my super powers to expand the vortex and stop the tornado!