David Wolfson
EF5
Yes, Robert, it has. My reading of the new membership requirements and TOS suggests that a more limited scope is being considered.
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I owe some people a drink!
- Thread starter David Drummond
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David Drummond
Member
Thing it's just on this area, I notice you could still edit in some of the others.Dan Robinson
The other category is the more complex discussion. I suggest a term other than "severe" because that term has a rather specific operational definition. Lightning chasers in the SW for example are not really severe weather chasers but they are stormchasers. The same goes for snowstorm freaks -- God help 'em
! What they have in common is they travel specifically to observe, record, and/or photograph remarkable weather. Whether the line should be set at tropospheric weather, e.g. exclude auroral phenomena, is a discussion point. I personally think ST should be limited to tropospheric weather./quote]
This is something I was pondering too. I posted a question along those lines here:
http://stormtrack.org/forum/viewtopic.php?...?t=7776&start=0
Tim Vasquez
EF5
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2003
- Messages
- 3,411
We'll fix the editing permissions bug.
As far as the other topic, Stormtrack has reasserted its role for active storm chasers, but I've noticed that the status of non-chasers is not very clear. We are not going to dip a strainer into the userlist to weed out non-chasers based on credentials. That will be done on new applications (and to what extent is still in debate). But as long as a person is a currently a member here, abides by the rules, and respects the slant of the board, they're welcome and I think they will still learn a lot while bringing some fresh perspective to the weather discussions.
TimShane Adams
Thanks for re-setting the "edit" feature Tim.Rob_Davis
*moved to new topic*Mike Parker
I would also like to thank Tim and the mods for the hard work and obvious thought that went into the restructuring of ST. IMO what Tim wants to happen here is real simple, return to a setting that brings respect back to the forum. Respect of one another as not only storm chasers but as human beings. It is no secret that there was a lot of sarcasm, antagonism and personal shots in some of the discussions. That is undoubtedly what was driving some members away. I believe that a clean slate is exactly what was needed. We now have an opportunity to forget about the problems of x1 and concentrate on making x2 a site that is free of selfish pettiness and full of useful and insightful discussions about the subjects of weather and chasing. That is in fact what drew us all here to begin with, the love of weather and the art of chasing. I for one am excited about the future of ST and appreciate the ability to be apart of it.
David Draun
EF5
Wow! Great changes! The leadership of this forum is shining brightly. 8) 8)
A big military SA-LUTE to Tim and the mods!
...my EE post count is only 40% I'm surprised, I thought it was much higher. :shock:
Bryce Stone
EF4
I cannot understand why there is even a debate here. Stormtrack is for storm chasers. What's there to debate about that statement? The admissions standard for new members simply asks that new members be at the least an active chaser (or that they have been an active chaser).
I'm not seeing the problem with asking that new members to a storm chasing forum be storm chasers.Rob_Davis
I don't think there is such a debate. It appears to me that the only real debate here is the definition of "chaser."
While it seems agreed upon that "chaser" doesn't include weather enthusiasts in general, there is some disagreement upon at what point one becomes "a chaser."
We have student drivers who are allowed to drive before they are licensed "drivers."
We have medical students who are allowed to perform surgery before they are licensed "physicians."
We have met students who are allowed to forecast and research before they are actually "meteorologists."
It just seems that indicates that it is reasonable for us to judge people to be seriously on their way to becoming a "chaser" at some point and let them get their feet wet. I am all for maintaining quality and a tolerable s/n ratio. And if newbies start wading into matters that are out of their league, then that can be dealt with quite easily. But again, it is just the normal course of any endeavor to allow people an entry path into professionalism.
Jay McCoy
EF5
This is an easy one
Chaser= Somebody who actively seeks out severe weather in a vehicle for observation or photography and videography as a hobby or professionally.
I.E.*** Do you drive 200 miles to see a cloud?? A person who sits by a PC and watches radar or looks out the window to see a storm is NOT a chaser. The word is "chaser" which means to chase after the storm!!Rob_Davis
Problem is, that definition would include Spotters too. There is a movement here to exclude spotters.
Jay McCoy
EF5
As somebody who is both I can say there is a world of difference between chasers and spotters. I spot when needed to for my community but I prefer to chase.
Chasers do it as a hobby for fun or research and their main goal is video or photography and will travle 100's and even 1000's of miles to see it. Chasers forumlate their own target area and forecast and make the desicion of what to chase and where.
Spotters do it as a community service to protect the public in their area and are usually assigned an area of "interest" by the wxnet or NWS to monitor. They dont have to make their own forecasts and stay close to home.
I have no prblem with spotters. They serve a great purpose but they are not chasers. Many people can tell if a storm is severe and recognize structure and report it to the NWS. Its a whole nother thing to make your own forecasts and choose a target and adjust as things change and catch a great storm.Rob_Davis
I think it depends on the spotter, really. Some spotters definitely qualify as short-range chasers. Mileage isn't everything. Especially if you live in DFW, which has the highest number of tornadoes anywhere in the country. You don't have to look far for them here!Rob_Davis
*biting my tongue*
Jay McCoy
EF5
I know some spotters who are very good at what they do and drive to the next few counties at the request of the NWS. Thats not my point. My point is they are sent there by the NWS or the local wxnet to observe wx. They do not formulate their own forecasts and choose a target 300 miles away in the next state and then drive for 12 hrs round trip just to take a picture. A chaser does. Their purpose is totally different than a chaser and most times their knowledge isnt as advanced (in most cases). I dont know of alot of spotters that can read a model and a sounding and choose a good target.
Trust me I hate being put on wx watch when i know better storms are 1 county away and I have to go to my assigned position and report light rain or small hail while somebody else shoots a tornado (can we say june 11th when I was on duty in amarillo mr David D.) Still mad about that one.Rob_Davis
But we start splitting hairs at this point. It is not necessarily reasonable to characterize all spotters any more than it is to characterize all chasers.
There are quite a few so-called "chasers" out there who do not do their own in-depth forecasting. If that were the case, WX WORX and Tim V. would be out of business. The fact is, whether they do met level forecasting or not, they are still chasing, and commonly doing so successfully.
Could it not be said that those who do all their own forecasting without relying on technology or advice to find their targets are really just weather weenies who happen to chase?
Jeff Snyder
EF5
STOP IT! Any further bickering between Rob or Nick will result in immediate suspension. This is exactly what we are trying to get away from, and instead, I'm having flashbacks from elementary school. Take it to PM if you want to keep arguing, but you must NOT continue doing so in this thread.Sarah Berling
Thanks, Jeff. Also, I don't think mileage should matter too much, as far as how far one must chase in order to become a "chaser". I've gone on chases (yes, they were actual chases) where I traveled a grand total of 75 miles - I ended up in Placitas, New Mexico, which is North of Albuquerque, but not very far. Caught an awesome storm and got some amazing pictures, but because I didn't travel the whole 100 miles or whatever, does that mean it wasn't a chase?
Just saying maybe we should not try to quantify the mileage and just try to qualify what creates a chaser, if this conversation should even be continued.
Sarah
Jay McCoy
EF5
If I upset anybody or offended anybody I am sorry and as David said I owe you a drink. I was just trying to point out what most people consider the differences are between chasers and spotters but this argument has gone on for years and wont be resolved here. I am both and proud of it.Rob_Davis
It's all good, Jay. It really is all just semantics. But apparently it has become necessesary to strictly define who's who in this community, so eventually it has to be addressed.
The way I see it, "chasing" is a mindset more than a label. To many spotters, they ARE chasing! After all, they left the house and drove somewhere looking for a storm. They may not know how to formulate their own forecast or talk met-speak, and they may only drive twenty miles total, but regardless, they ARE chasing.
I hate to be the one to slay the sacred cow here, but the truth is that doing your own forecast is no more necessary to being a "chaser" than learning morse code is to being a ham radio operator. It may put you on some higher elitist plane than others, but when it comes down to it, you're still just a chaser like the rest of us (not referring to anybody in particular here).fplowman
How about if I drive 700 or more miles round trip time and time again and didnt see sh!t (2005) does that make me a chaser nick?? lol :wink:
I thought I would throw some humor in there.. Im sure yourself and others feel my pain. I got 2 lousy tornado pics this year while driving at 70+ mph in motion to catch up to them.. Blah!
nickgrillo
EF5
Well, I am sure you tried your best, Fred... It doesn't matter if you got a whole bunch of tornadoes -- At least you tried to... There was ALOT of very good chasers this year that wasn't able to get alot of tornadoes, probably due to the fact they had limited time available and there wasn't that many superhuge days this year...
Bill Tabor
EF5
Not sure if I caught all the thread here in review but there is a difference between chasers and spotters - typically. I will say that chasers can be spotters, and spotters are also sometimes chasers but not always. Distance isn't an issue.
Spotters are typically people that go out for the purpose of protecting the community. They often are part of a local organization dedicated to severe weather preparedness. Often spotters are also part of an amateur radio network so they can call in their reports.
Chasers on the other hand are really out primarily to see storms. They travel various distances to do this. I chase locally if tornadoes are locally and sometimes I go thousands of miles practically to Canada all to see a storm.
That's basically the defs as I see it and have heard and observed, or experienced them being used. Additionally you can have a person that is actually both. They can go out locally with a joint mission of catching watching storms (because they love them), and helping to warn the public. Some (very few) spotters will go long distances out of their community to help warn the public, but usually that is because they are also chasing the storms because of their love, photography, videography, media, etc.
Personally I consider myself a chaser but I do call in reports locally and in the field far away from home. However I am an individual and not part of a group.Mike Hollingshead
Really confused? It was said rather simply over and over and over again. Did you read my posts on here? I'm glad it/st isn't segregated as it was looking to do, but at the same time not happy to see those same ideas just plopped over here. Just what is so confusing about making that step? Did I say implement your ideas of only allowing chasers now? I don't think I did. I did NOT help implement that over here. The only one doing the implementing here is the OWNER of the site, like has been stated so many times whenever us whiners complain and its not agreed upon by the CORE folks, or others.
Due to your wording above, I guess my only motivation is to sell images and dvds. I mean I have to have some whack motivation(since it does not equal yours), don't I? I can't just feel this way AND sell things. Will a mod please remove my dvd post that is lost in a wrong forum from the change. Just completely remove it(seriously). It is such an evil thing anymore anyway. All it does is mutter up the minds of those one is argueing with. God. It also gives those holier than thou something to preach about, instead of just not liking something.
It is really simple for me, or at least it was. As completely open as possible, and free to all is always the best approach to me. *I* did not see ANY reason for me to have to have what was being desired. *I* will survive the "fluff" posts out there, which must be by the "fluff" posters. Very simple. I don't NEED this forum to cater to just my needs. Do I need all these "other" folks to post here? No. Do I NEED them to not be here, nope.
If you want to suggest my thoughts have been given because I'm trying to sell things, by all means feel free. If it helps your point, in your mind, hey, I'm here for ya. Meanwhile, I'll remove my dvd link post and the link at the bottom of my signature. It just gets in the way. If I put selling a dvd above my true feelings about complete openess, I would imagine the best course of action(to sell dvds) would certainly be trying to remain as uncontroversial as possible. Maybe that is why I said what I said in the bible thread too. JUST trying to sell dvds.
Would it be THAT hard to get Tim Marshall and/or David Hoadley on here and ask them who their target audience was when selling things? I bet they were open to anyone and I bet they weren't freaking evil or "ill-motivated" at the same time. I bet their lives went on when a non-chaser wanted to talk to them. I bet if they made stormtrack mag for chasers, that when they did so they never intended it to be SOLELY for them. I bet their 'souls' weren't so tainted to think it should be that way for THEIR sake. But hey, if that were the case, I'm sure they were just sympathetic to their needs so they could SELL them what they had.
Well I better stop my un-supported "reply", because it is nothing short of an attack. There, saved some the step. It is just continuing the negativity. Instead I should have just let this wrong commenting go. Will work on being an idiot I guess.Similar threads
