Hallam and Greensburg Similarities

[John Peters]

205 MPH was the number that the WCM/MIC put the tornado at when doing the damage survey(atleast I believe this was the case, I heard that number that day while out there). This is merely a result of using the EF scale and tweaking the degree of damage indicators to produce an estimate of the wind speeds.

in other words, the damage indicator that was previously thought to require 250 mph winds now is believed to occur at only 205 mph.

 

[Zac Flamig]

in other words, the damage indicator that was previously thought to require 250 mph winds now is believed to occur at only 205 mph.

Yes. I changed my post because I used a word that wasn't needed and might add confusion since the EF Scale has both "degrees of damage" and "damage indicators."

 

[Chris Foltz]

I think the Hallam F4 at 2.5 miles wide had peak winds around 250 MPH (correct me if I am off).

Would the Hallam, NE storm on May 22, 2004 also be an EF-5 (on the new enhanced F scale)?

Chris,

The short answer to your question is no. In training on using the EF scale for damage surveys, one of the cases presented was the Hallam tornado. Brian Smith, the WCM from Omaha went through and reanalyzed the damage from that tornado and determined it would be rated an EF-4.

 

[Willie Dines]

Now, here is something that I want to ask, as reguards the Hallam monster, did anyone ever take aerial pictures of the damage path and if so, does anyone know of where I or anyone can view them?

Willie

 

[Chris Foltz]

Now, here is something that I want to ask, as reguards the Hallam monster, did anyone ever take aerial pictures of the damage path and if so, does anyone know of where I or anyone can view them?

Willie

Willie, don't know if any aerial shots are out there anywhere but here's a link to OAX's page on it.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/oax/archive/hallam/hallam.php

EDIT: Here's a link to the HPRCC page on the Hallam tornado. Appears there was a link to an article in the Lincoln Journal-Star with aerial photos but it doesn't appear to be valid.

http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/may22-2004tornado-report.html

 

[Kiel Ortega]

Errr...don't know where to actually post this: from Google themselves (this is worth getting Google Earth for!)

Satellite of before and after.
[FONT=PrimaSans BT,Verdana,sans-serif]
http://mw1.google.com/mw-earth-vectordb/or/greensburg_tornado.kml[/FONT]

 

[Willie Dines]

Hey Chris , thank you buddy

I looked through the other links also, and couldn't find a single aerial image of the damage path, which is pretty stupid, the reason why I say thatis because if aerial images are taken of the damage path, it is possible to look for ground markings of the tornado's rotation, to look for signs of suction vortices or for the posibility that there may have been more than 1 main vortex inside the Hallam monster.

I'll have another look on google and see what I can find on there, but I doubt that I'll find anything

Willie

 

[J.B. Dixon]

With the Hallam tornado being highly HP during it's F4 stretches (I can attest to this), is it fair to draw any conclusions that the HP nature (rain-cooled air ingestion) of the cell prevented the Hallam tornado from being even stronger?? From pics of the Greensburg storm, it seemed that at the time, the storm had not reached the same levels of HP as the Hallam storm.

Just thinking out loud.....

EDIT: I realize this particular argument is the equivalent of differentiating between what 0 degrees and -20 degress feels like........it's pretty damn irrelevant.

 

[Jeremy Bower]

Hallam and Greensburg are examples of the worst-case scenarios you could possibly have. Two wedge tornadoes roughly 2 miles wide (Hallam at 2.5) at night.

Curiously I'm surprised nobody has yet to bring the split of the supercell that produced the Hallam tornado has it began to enter Lancaster County. Imagine if you will had the supercell not split. Had it not split, the Hallam tornado would have instead entered Lincoln at 27th and Cornhusker Highway. My thesis looks at that scenario and what the impacts of such an event would be.

I noticed there was some chatter about aerial damage photos from Hallam. My advisor, Dr. Ken Dewey had photos taken the day after Hallam from the air and I do have copies of those photos if anyone wants to see them. Be advised they are fairly large in size so posting them here isn't the best idea probably. Let me know if you want to see them however.

EDIT: Go half way down the page to see a picture taken during this year's Central Plains Severe Weather Symposium which shows a billboard of Hallam before and immediately after the tornado and Hallam currently
http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/cpsws2007-photo4a.html

 

[Robbie Cox]

Now, here is something that I want to ask, as reguards the Hallam monster, did anyone ever take aerial pictures of the damage path and if so, does anyone know of where I or anyone can view them?

Willie

I could not find the aerials that were posted after it went thru,but If I remember correctly David Drummond was on this storm and knocked out his windows in his van. He had a first timer ( I think) with him taking photo's.I did save his video that he had of Hallam that morning showing the damage, but will not post without his permission.