Cuts to NOAA impacting the National Weather Service

[John Farley]

I am in favor of a national disaster review board regardless of who is president, just for the record. Pretty sure I contacted my senators. Hope more details come out on the layoffs, but pretty sure there have been impacts from this already here in Colorado (see a few posts above).

 

[Brett Roberts]

For the journalists out there, it would be helpful to compile a list of specifically what is being impacted by these cuts. That would help allay the concerns of hyperbole vs dismissiveness by getting us all on the same page about exactly what is happening. That has always been the challenge with our information sources in our current era.

Here are some things I've seen referred to. If anyone has clarifying info/refutations to these, please chime in:

- 11 NWS offices in the Great Plains region were already understaffed *prior* to the cuts, requiring assistance from neighboring NWSFOs during big events. It has not been reported, however, if any positions in these actual offices were cut.

- At least one RAOB (in Alaska) cannot be launched due to staffing issues directly related to the cuts. Presumably that could affect CONUS models by removing an important upstream data point?

- Some of the cuts involved skilled specialists working on the improvement/upgrading of models, with their terminations based mostly/all on their probationary status. Again, were all such positions cut, or just a few? What is the actual expected impact?

I agree this would be great information for the public to see, but my understanding is that these firings were conducted with a strong lack of transparency. I'm not sure anyone other than a few folks at the top of NOAA and the DOC know the exact breakdown. Based on stories from probationary employees I know, even their "chain of command" within NOAA was left largely in the dark over the past few weeks.

My understanding at this point, just based on first and secondhand reports from inside the professional community: many, perhaps a solid majority, of probationary employees within NOAA were fired. Estimates are that 5-10% of NOAA employees are/were in their probationary periods (which lasts either 1 or 2 years after a hire is made, depending on the position). So if I had to guess, we're talking about anywhere from 3-8% of NOAA losing their jobs yesterday... and the way that pain was spread across orgs within NOAA was partially down to the luck of how many recent hires they had.

One org that apparently lost all probationary employees was NWS EMC, which is responsible for the development, maintenance, evaluation, and implementation of all U.S. operational models. Multiple people I went to school with or worked with in the past were impacted. The idea floated earlier in the thread that this line of work should be de-funded simply because ECMWF has superior performance in one specific domain (global medium-range NWP) is in my opinion, having worked as a research meteorologist focused on NWP verification, completely absurd. For example, the U.S. is easily the world leader on operational CAMs, especially with experimental projects like NSSL's WoFS already maturing. EMC is and will continue to be a critical stage in the pipeline that delivers us model upgrades and new models, regardless of what you think of the GFS.

As for NWS FOs: the situation there is still really murky. It sounds like some probationary employees were let go, but probably nowhere near all of them. I have no idea which offices were impacted, other than what those employees have chosen to share on social media. Hopefully journalists are talking to as many inside sources as possible to get a clearer picture for the public.

 

[Mike Smith]

the U.S. is easily the world leader on operational CAMs, especially with experimental projects like NSSL's WoFS already maturing. EMC is and will continue to be a critical stage in the pipeline that delivers us model upgrades and new models, regardless of what you think of the GFS.

The CAMs and WRF were developed at NCAR. GFS is an awful model. We don't need more models, we need a couple of great models.

We taxpayers are currently paying for seven atmospheric modeling groups. Absurd. It should be cut to two.

 

[Mike Smith]

Just received this from an NWS official:

As of this afternoon, the Secretary of Commerce just granted a waiver for all NWS employees in job series 1340 (meteorology), 856 (electronics technicians, fixing computers and radars), 2210 (information technology), and 1315 (hydrology). Any MISSION-CRITICAL probationary firing in those series is a mistake and they're working on fixing. Some job series DID NOT get waived, such as 1301 (physical scientist, people who work at HQ, researchers). It is frustrating and sad for them, but they aren't considered "essential" during a lapse in appropriations.

The RIF is probably coming, but again most field offices are excepted (common term usage "essential") and it's less likely we'll be impacted. The more likely issue is the reduction in real estate footprint, so we'll have to see if they have to close some offices down the road.

But in this case, the fearmongering media reports about a 10% cut across NOAA were just plain wrong. And many NWS forecasters fell for it too.

I feel badly for the probationary employees who were let go, and for the ones who were stressed waiting to find out, but I sure wish someone, ANYONE had cares just a SMIDGE as much for those of us who faced Biden's EO14043. They WANTED us fired back then. No one cared about impacts to the mission if we lost people then. No one cared about our lives. Nope, it was about "health and safety"...and they all still got covid. But I'm not bitter. We were told (and I have screenshots) that we were part of the executive branch, the president had the right to require it of us or we could find employment elsewhere.

Keep up the good work!

 

[James K]

There was an article about this in the Denver Post today. Not sure if its online, or just in the paper.

They cancelled all 2025 spotter classes at NWS Boulder a few days ago with no warning. I wonder if that's connected to this.

Probably so. Sad to hear.
I'd thought *maybe* about attending one this year since its been a couple years since I last did (there was one next month that day/time woulda been good, though it wasn't in my county).

Linked below is a report from 9 News in Denver.

When I try clicking that link, I get a page that says "Access Denied". I guess they must have taken the article down.

Struggling to keep my political views (not either party btw), out of here.

Same here. My feelings/thoughts of/about the current 'leadership' and the language alone needed would not be appropriate in any way for a 'family friendly' forum such as this...
(and its not just about weather, its all the bigotry & hate being spewed by them too)

We taxpayers are currently paying for seven atmospheric modeling groups. Absurd. It should be cut to two.

Maybe 7 is alittle much, but I'm against cutting anything/fireing/etc, though maybe there could be a central atmospheric modeling group that works on a couple models combining the best parts of others...

 

[John Farley]

The 9 News article is still there - I just pulled it up, but the URL may have changed, Here is where I just pulled it up:

https://www.9news.com/article/news/nation-world/noaa-national-weather-service-federal-layoffs/507-c4a731d8-3e82-445c-85e3-dafb4159a42b

 

[Mike Smith]

The 9 News article is still there - I just pulled it up, but the URL may have changed, Here is where I just pulled it up:

https://www.9news.com/article/news/...offs/507-c4a731d8-3e82-445c-85e3-dafb4159a42b

The Ch 9 story is just wrong. Hundreds of "forecasters" have not been fired.

I received the item below this evening from a NOAA official:

As of this afternoon, the Secretary of Commerce just granted a waiver for all NWS employees in job series 1340 (meteorology), 856 (electronics technicians, fixing computers and radars), 2210 (information technology), and 1315 (hydrology). Any MISSION-CRITICAL probationary firing in those series is a mistake and they're working on fixing. Some job series DID NOT get waived, such as 1301 (physical scientist, people who work at HQ, researchers). It is frustrating and sad for them, but they aren't considered "essential" during a lapse in appropriations.

The RIF is probably coming, but again most field offices are excepted (common term usage "essential") and it's less likely we'll be impacted. The more likely issue is the reduction in real estate footprint, so we'll have to see if they have to close some offices down the road.

But in this case, the fearmongering media reports about a 10% cut across NOAA were just plain wrong. And many NWS forecasters fell for it too.

I feel badly for the probationary employees who were let go, and for the ones who were stressed waiting to find out, but I sure wish someone, ANYONE had cares just a SMIDGE as much for those of us who faced Biden's EO14043. They WANTED us fired back then. No one cared about impacts to the mission if we lost people then. No one cared about our lives. Nope, it was about "health and safety"...and they all still got covid. But I'm not bitter. We were told (and I have screenshots) that we were part of the executive branch, the president had the right to require it of us or we could find employment elsewhere.

 

[John Farley]

Just received this from an NWS official:

As of this afternoon, the Secretary of Commerce just granted a waiver for all NWS employees in job series 1340 (meteorology), 856 (electronics technicians, fixing computers and radars), 2210 (information technology), and 1315 (hydrology). Any MISSION-CRITICAL probationary firing in those series is a mistake and they're working on fixing. Some job series DID NOT get waived, such as 1301 (physical scientist, people who work at HQ, researchers). It is frustrating and sad for them, but they aren't considered "essential" during a lapse in appropriations.

The RIF is probably coming, but again most field offices are excepted (common term usage "essential") and it's less likely we'll be impacted. The more likely issue is the reduction in real estate footprint, so we'll have to see if they have to close some offices down the road.

But in this case, the fearmongering media reports about a 10% cut across NOAA were just plain wrong. And many NWS forecasters fell for it too.

I feel badly for the probationary employees who were let go, and for the ones who were stressed waiting to find out, but I sure wish someone, ANYONE had cares just a SMIDGE as much for those of us who faced Biden's EO14043. They WANTED us fired back then. No one cared about impacts to the mission if we lost people then. No one cared about our lives. Nope, it was about "health and safety"...and they all still got covid. But I'm not bitter. We were told (and I have screenshots) that we were part of the executive branch, the president had the right to require it of us or we could find employment elsewhere.

Keep up the good work!

Well, good for the Secretary of Commerce for reversing at least some of the layoffs. I had no idea whatEO14043 was, but just looked it up and it was not a reduction in force or a layoff - just a requirement that employees get vaccinated so as not to put their co-workers in danger. Sounds reasonable to me. Not one person had to be fired as long as they were willing to take this simple precaution. In contrast to the current situation where even the best of the probationary employees can't to anything to save their jobs if they are on the chopping list.

 

[James K]

The 9 News article is still there - I just pulled it up, but the URL may have changed, Here is where I just pulled it up:

https://www.9news.com/article/news/...offs/507-c4a731d8-3e82-445c-85e3-dafb4159a42b

I still get this:
Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.9news.com/article/news/n...offs/507-c4a731d8-3e82-445c-85e3-dafb4159a42b" on this server.
Reference #18.d363ca17.1740803043.152ad933
https://errors.edgesuite.net/18.d363ca17.1740803043.152ad933

And .lol. the link it gives for the err leads to a "Server not found"

 

[John Farley]

I still get this:
Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.9news.com/article/news/n...offs/507-c4a731d8-3e82-445c-85e3-dafb4159a42b" on this server.
Reference #18.d363ca17.1740803043.152ad933
https://errors.edgesuite.net/18.d363ca17.1740803043.152ad933

And .lol. the link it gives for the err leads to a "Server not found"

Sorry you can't get it to come up. Don't know why - it is there and I just pulled it up and apparently Mike did, too. For me, it even came up when I clicked on the link in your post. Technology!!!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Those links work for me as well - maybe a geo/IP block? That would be strange though -are you using a VPN?

 

[James K]

Yep. Technology!
Tried it in 3 different browsers (all on the same pc). Access Denied in 2, but worked in the 3rd.

No VPN, but I do adblock & have some other extra security. Maybe its somewhere in there. Or it just doesn't like certain browsers.

 

[Jamie H]

I struggle with US news sites due to GDPR etc so have to VPN in America to read. Might be part of the problem?

Also the AP reports around 1300 employees have lost their jobs. Axios has more info https://www.axios.com/2025/02/28/noaa-layoffs-threaten-weather-climate-forecasts

 

[Jamie H]

As already mentioned, EO14043 is an order to require federal employees to be vaccinated to halt the spread of a Covid variant. I don't see how that's relevant to an unelected body, with absolutely no government or public oversight, led by a non US citizen, making thousands of people unemployed.

What qualifications does Musk or anyone at the office he represents have in identifying operational staffing decisions?

 

[Brian McWatters]

CBS News quotes a source at the National Weather Service who said that meteorologists were impacted by this week's layoffs, including radar specialists, as well as staff of the Hurricane Hunters crew.

Hundreds of NOAA employees laid off in latest cuts to federal workforce

Speaking as a former government contractor, this is an outrage.