County Officials Critical of Storm Chasers

[Brian Douglas]

I wouldn't assume just because you saw a chaser pulled over by LEO it was because they did something bad. I've been pulled over in my high profile vehicles quite a few times, only so they could get and update on the weather situation, see a radar, stuff like that. You'd be surprised how many LEOs and FD folks that are out there in these rural counties that are given very little, and often old, weather information to work with. And if you think about it, if you were one of these cops, and wanted to stop someone to get information, who would you stop? Probably the most professional looking storm chase vehicle you could find quickly.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. In rural areas, many of us are still in the stone age when it comes to the access to information we have about storms, and their speed. This is why chasing is a double edged sword for me, on one hand it is darned handy to see a few chasers show up with good information and equipment, nothing wrong with extra eyes on a storm either. Usually if you do have chasers, you have a pretty serious storm and often they have chased it in from another county, whereas we have generally only seen it in our county and maybe not from the best vantage point. The problem is not chasers as a whole, it is chasers who think they are above the law and who don't care how their actions impact the local population.

 

[Brian Douglas]

Has this happened before?
Speaking for myself as well as others, I'm not there for the destruction.

Have I had a chaser yell at me to turn off my lights because I was ruining his video? Yes, I wouldn't have posted it otherwise. It was a one time deal, it most definitely was a "professional" chaser if there is such a thing.

 

[Brian Douglas]

"Personally I really don’t care how you chase. If you want to drive like a maniac, stand in the road and block traffic, or have enough light bars to light up NYC, then more power to you. As long as you don’t effect what I’m trying to accomplish, then I really don’t care. "



If this is the attitude of most "legit" chasers, then I think the problem is only going to get worse.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I wouldn't assume just because you saw a chaser pulled over by LEO it was because they did something bad. I've been pulled over in my high profile vehicles quite a few times, only so they could get and update on the weather situation, see a radar, stuff like that. You'd be surprised how many LEOs and FD folks that are out there in these rural counties that are given very little, and often old, weather information to work with. And if you think about it, if you were one of these cops, and wanted to stop someone to get information, who would you stop? Probably the most professional looking storm chase vehicle you could find quickly.

I've had this happen to me several times, and I'm always happy to be of assistance.

On another note, it would appear that the article was really addressing the issue of clogged two-lane roads, which usually leads to a traffic flow that is on the order of 10-15 mph below the posted speed limit, at least at times. In that case, there are no laws being broken.

Anyone has the "right" (I use the term loosely) to hop in his or her car and drive down a public right-of-way to observe a storm, bona fide chaser or not. This then poses a similar same problem that has plagued emergency services personnel for decades - rubberneckers at accidents or fires. I don't see there being a sanguine resolution to that problem, since slow moving traffic clogging up rural two-lane blacktops doesn't, in and of itself, constitute a legal infraction. If nothing else, some of the biggest traffic hazards that I observed on Saturday were LEOs blocking roads so that chasers couldn't get any closer to the storm than what those LEOs arbitrarily deemed a safe distance; I saw this happen twice on Saturday, and it's the fourth or fifth time that I've seen the same thing happen in Kansas since 2008, usually orchestrated by KHP officers.

 

[Marcus Diaz]

Personally I really don’t care how you chase. If you want to drive like a maniac, stand in the road and block traffic, or have enough light bars to light up NYC, then more power to you. As long as you don’t effect what I’m trying to accomplish, then I really don’t care.

For the record, this is what I meant with my post. I'm out there for my benefit, not yours. I chase my way, not yours. Sometimes I drive aggressive, that's because I've driven my car through the extremes and know when i push it too far, so I never go there. But trying to tune the way others drive is about damn near impossible. If you just have some common sense while chasing you won't have any problems. But during the heat of the chase, different people show different colors, and it translates differently. It's just the way it'd going to be, not much you can do to change behavior.

 

[Jason Haller]

I'm a county official, and I waiver back and forth with what I think of chasers. I guess first off I'll ask a question, what makes someone a professional chaser, what proof of being professional can that person give me if I run into him on a Kansas country road?? Regardless of how much experience he or she may have chasing, what do you suppose my response will be if he screams at me to shut off my lights because I am ruining the video he is trying to take?

On one hand you've got chasers( and I have to say upfront I haven't seen anything like what happened in Dickinson county) who obey the law, are courteous, and helpful. Then you have the others, and many of them have lots of antennas and look pretty professional as far as gear goes, but as far as I know they are not carrying a PhD in chasing or any kind of a license that entitles them to special treatment, and they are a pain in the ass to boot. If you are worried a tornado is about to go through your hometown, or has gone through your hometown, someone who doesn't live in your county and is simply there for the thrill of seeing destruction isn't ever going to be all that welcome. A couple weeks ago I was in the pro chaser camp, Saturday sent me close to being in the anti-chaser camp.

I will admit though that local people gawking cause just as much trouble if not more, and not just during storms, but during fires, car wrecks, etc. It could be the chaser factor was the straw that broke the camels back more than the main problem(the main problem after all was the tornado). As with most endeavors in life, a few bad apples can give the entire barrel a bad name.

Nobody likes regulation from the government, maybe the answer is some sort of self regulation or certification, with a code of conduct and ID to prove you aren't just a yokel from the next county or even the next state that wants to tear through the countryside hoping to see someones house get wiped out.

I have had a similar idea. An organization of storm chasers that not only has training and certification as part of it but also an outreach and spokesmen type that can inform the public and the media of storm chasing and be able to respond to critics. Self-regulation could include "How am I chasing" bumper stickers to report reckless chasers (although I suspect members of this organization would not be a problem), Rules of conduct and standards and practices.
What benefit would being part of this organization? Off the top of my head, working with some of the providers of our services and hardware (Allison House, Maximum Signal, Davis Weather Instruments, Gibson Ridge, ETC) for possible discounts, work with NWS and gain access to NWS chat, representation in legal matters pertaining to storm chasing, increased legitimacy by being certified as part of the organization.
This is just my 2 cents.

 

[STexan]

To my way of thinking there are spotters and there are chasers. I was given to understand there is a rather significant organized spotter network. However, in my travels I seem to see VERY FEW "spotters" situated where I'd think one would/should be. Is there an extensive spotter network (community) and I just don't realize it, or has the chaser community basically assumed this role? If so, then this changes the complexion of this argument a bit and it would seem that there needs to be some give and take as well as a coordination of resources between community safety members and the chaser community. I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

[Jason Haller]

To my way of thinking there are spotters and there are chasers. I was given to understand there is a rather significant organized spotter network. However, in my travels I seem to see VERY FEW "spotters" situated where I'd think one would/should be. Is there an extensive spotter network (community) and I just don't realize it, or has the chaser community basically assumed this role? If so, then this changes the complexion of this argument a bit and it would seem that there needs to be some give and take as well as a coordination of resources between community safety members and the chaser community. I'm just thinking out loud here.

In Kansas it is county by county. My County (Riley) has a very good and organized group of spotters others counties do not.

 

[Mike Smith]

I'm a county official, and I waiver back and forth with what I think of chasers. I guess first off I'll ask a question, what makes someone a professional chaser, what proof of being professional can that person give me if I run into him on a Kansas country road??

It is, frankly, none of your business whether he/she is a professional chaser and how dare you ask for "proof." This is America!

Your sole concern is whether a person is breaking the law. If so, they should be ticketed or arrested as any other person would be and as the facts of the situation dictate.

Rest is none of your business.

 

[Andrew Stoller]

I’d like to clear a few things up since Lanny can’t at this current time.

First, Lanny does not run his business off of other people’s demise. In fact he has participated in aiding victims in various ways and what he couldn’t do with ECT, Mission of Compassion would pick up from there. I watched Lanny cry with a lady the day after her mobile home was turned into tooth picks. He also gave her all the money he had in is his pocket, so her and her son could get a motel instead of sleeping on a cot.
As for “legitimate chasers have a place”. Are you legit? If you are it shouldn’t bother you. If you are, than it should prompt you to become legit, and to help others.

Now, after a long phone call with the EM of Dickinson County Mr. Smith, the truth came out, hence the quick apology. He admitted that most of his accusations were untrue or heavily exaggerated. It boiled down to him having to slow down on a dirt road, because chasers were lined up on it. It only makes sense to me that chasers were on the dirt road, to stay clear of the paved road.

As for the county administrator Brad Hammond, I’m not sure why he came charging out after Mr. Smith offered an apology. Maybe trying to flex his muscles, who knows? He too had a long conversation with Lanny and offered an apology.
The bigger picture: Lanny knew the original story was biased/one-sided, and he wanted to balance it out. He wanted to be a voice for all of us. The last thing we need is another “black eye”. Did he have to? No. I’m sure some of you don’t agree with his actions; just know it was an effort for the greater good.

Personally I really don’t care how you chase. If you want to drive like a maniac, stand in the road and block traffic, or have enough light bars to light up NYC, then more power to you. As long as you don’t effect what I’m trying to accomplish, then I really don’t care.

If you have any questions, feel free to pm me.

With that said, I wish you all a safe and successful chase season.

I appreciate the somewhat inside info about that news story, and maybe I jumped the gun a bit too much towards Lanny. However, I've seen the attitude from a few well know storm chasers questioning other people's experience, motivation, and subtly, their "legitimacy" for going out storm chasing, and that seriously bothers me.

All I know is more and more people are getting into this hobby, so the problem with chaser convergences and individuals driving like idiots is likely going to get worse. About the only thing you can do is, if you have the chance, get license info and call the authorities if you see something blatantly dangerous. Or get video. Sean Casey knows a thing or two about that.

 

[Olivier Staiger]

It is, frankly, none of your business whether he/she is a professional chaser and how dare you ask for "proof." This is America!

Your sole concern is whether a person is breaking the law. If so, they should be ticketed or arrested as any other person would be and as the facts of the situation dictate.

Rest is none of your business.

well said, Mike ! I totally agree with your message. What the hell are they thinking ? Like, they could shut down the entire state just to avoid a few bad drivers to hit the road ? Give me a break ! Stop the criminals, not the innocent !

 

[Greg Higgins]

For all those that think they should be "certified" or a "professional", you really need to do some research and understand what is required for these designations. Short answer...it isn't going to happen. Both designations, by defintion, require advanced education with continuing education afterwards and be recognized by a national organization. This also implies that that "national organization" assumes legal responsibility and liability for those who have attained that distinction. As an example, something as simple as a CPR course. I laugh and wonder exactly what the instructor taught and the student heard every time someones tell me they are a certified in CPR. NO ONE IS CERTIFIED!!!! Look at your card, it says you attended a course of instruction. Both the American Heart Association and the American Red Cross stopped issing cards that said certified back in the 1990's!!! This was due to the wide latitude that instructors were given as how to teach, the changing science of CPR and the NUMEROUS (frivialous, but nevertheless had to be defended) lawsuits that arose by poor CPR, families that were grieving over the loss of a loved one (my loved one would still be here if CPR had been done right...) and many other excuses. It all boils down to, and has been discussed ad naseum ever since I started chasing back in 1987, if your chasing and doing things that attract the attention of a law enforcement agency, you will get stopped and maybe issued a ticket and fine for your actions. Secondary to that, your actions, which you chose to do - even knowing it was illegal or having the attitude that you're special - will give the rest of the storm chasing community a bad reputation. As the old saying goes, one bad apple.............As for locals and wanna be's, we as chaser shot our own foot with some of the reality tv shows, movies and other media stories. All we can do now is step back, take a deep breath and enjoy what we do, assist the NWS and affected communities (if possible), don't do anything illegal and make ourselves shine when ever possible.

Robert.........from an observation from the NWS I volunteer with during severe events, SN has become a joke with everbody and their dog showing up on the SN website but maybe <1% are actually provideing any groundtruth report to the EMO's or NWS. Doesn't do much good if the NWS can't get ground truth reports when there are 40-60 SN icons around a storm and no one providing info.

 

[Jake Orosi]

It is, frankly, none of your business whether he/she is a professional chaser and how dare you ask for "proof." This is America!

Your sole concern is whether a person is breaking the law. If so, they should be ticketed or arrested as any other person would be and as the facts of the situation dictate.

Rest is none of your business.

Whoa there, Captain Liberty. He was joining a discussion in which alleged distinctions between "real" chasers and not-"real" chasers were already brought up by others. I'm pretty sure he was speaking hypothetically, not proposing pulling over chasers and demanding ID.

And he brought up a good point - everyone is saying that the people running the red lights and backing up traffic in mile-long caravans aren't "the real chasers"; but how can anyone possibly know that? How does one tell? It seems to me the only thing that separates the "legit" from the "yahoo", technique-wise, is what they do before the chase - how they decide where exactly they'll start chasing. Because after that point, everyone's exactly the same - following the radar echoes. And they all naturally will end up in the same places because they're all following the same storms.

Not to mention that all those "yahoos" think they're legit chasers. Any attempt to try and standardize will likely be met with resistance from those folks. Heck, even attempts to unilaterally condemn bad driving practices meet with resistance - there's already at least one "legit" chaser here who says an adrenaline rush justifies breaking traffic laws and he doesn't care what anyone else thinks about it.

 

[Sean Ramsey]

I don't see why chasers and spotters wouldn't benefit from having an organization to be a part of, that had requirements maybe like CPR training and membership dues...but not restrictive like designating people as professionals or "certified". Such an organization would be beneficial to people who enjoy chasing whether it's for public awareness or photography, or interest in storms in general.

There are many organizations that represent groups of people, from the NRA to as basic as gold prospecting. Storm chasers and spotters are a group of people who participate in life threating situations for many different reasons, and come under fire for people's lack of responsibility whether it is one of their own or a kid just out to see a tornado one day a year. It would only make sense to me that they would want to have some way for the general public to differentiate, as well as a means to build a true community that would hold their members to established guidelines. Like I said before, it won't stop everyone and their dog from clogging the roads, but it would serve as a way to protect true chasers (and spotters) interest when it gets to a point where someone in an important position decides something needs to be done, whether it's feasible or not. I know if I was a member of such an organization, after the events of the weekend, I would feel better if I had a representative saying "the problems on the road this weekend were directly attributable to the public, not our organization. Our members are clearly identifiable, and are required to uphold a standard that is in line with law enforcement and public safety."

It may not be the case, but I can see where people might want to be included in such a group...especially if they cared enough about their livelyhood/hobby/interest.

 

[Greg Higgins]

Sean............the implication from the previous posts was that there should be an organization which certified or provided a "professional" status on chasers. As for an organizations that represent chasers, what is StormTrack??? Go ahead and charge dues, print up membership cards. There already is a "vetting" for members already in place. That and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee. It won't make a bit of difference to the LEO that pulled you over that you have a membership card. As has been stated numerous times, the ACTIONS of the chasers is the problem. Act professional in public and you reap the rewards (having the LEO's / fire folks stop and get your opinon, etc. as several memebrs on here have had done); do illegal, dangerous or life threatening acts of stupidity and pay the consequences.