Any issues with hard drive camcorders?

[Chris Karstens]

Hi,

I'm considering purchasing one of the new Sony Hi-Def hard drive camcorders with GPS... I'm curious if anyone has purchased one of these and tested it out already? How does it perform on the road?

Also I have a broader question... does anyone use a hard drive camcorder for chasing? If so, have you had any issues with recording failures due to driving induced vibrations?

Thanks!

Chris

 

[Jason Foster]

My chase buddy locally has a Canon HG-20 that has the Hard Disk in the camera. One the first local chase this season it worked well, even on a stone back road we happened on. It even tipped over in heavy wind (and a lightweight tripod) into the grass. That vibration (or better yet, smack) did not damage the camera including the HDD. The only issue he's had is with the image stabilizer when zoomed. He actually has to turn it off, otherwise it shakes around when on a tripod.

 

[Jayson Prentice]

Chris,

I am expecting my Canon HG20 to come via UPS tomorrow afternoon. I'm sure you can have a look at it and try it out later on this spring if you want to at least check out a HDD camera. Another issue that I've heard of is with live streaming and that you will have to buy something else in order to both record to the HDD and live stream simultaneously. I have to check more into that once I get it in my hands...

 

[Steve Miller]

I use a Sony hard drive camcorder and have never had a problem. I've run it on a windshield mount which gives it pretty good vibration, I've thrown it in the backseat, I've had it blow over on a tripod and various other rough handling. It's solid as a rock and my next camcorder (Panasonic HDC-HS300K Released 4/15) will be a hard drive based unit as well.
You're probably looking at the SR11 or SR12 Sony and those are good, and have gotten better, image-wise with their CMOS chips. You might look at a 3CCD hard drive based camera or even one like I have on order that has the new 3MOS which is 3CCD and CMOS combined - if for nothing else, an educational experience

 

[Chris Karstens]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the quick response.... I probably should've clarified something at the outset, but I think you guys knew what I was implying... I'm planning on mounting the camcorder either to a suction mount or a modified tripod mount in the vehicle....

I definitely have more confidence now in considering this type of camcorder.... if anyone else has had any issues or would simply like to comment, please chime in!

Thanks!

Chris

 

[Skip Talbot]

Hey Chris,

I just picked up the new Sony HDR-XR500 and took it out for a spin mounted to a tripod between the seats. There were no issues with bumps triggering the shutdown feature. My only complaint is that harddrive camcorders don't natively support streaming. You can overcome this with a USB capture or tuner device, however.

 

[Justin Avery]

Chris
Got a Sony HDR-XR200V last week and took it out to Nebraska on Saturday. Performed great! The GPS is a great tool once you get back home, to see all your clips plotted out on the map. At the same time I found out that there are only a few video editing programs out there that can edit and render the AVCHD format the camera records in so anticipate this hurdle. I'm shopping around for a good one this week.

 

[Jason Foster]

And of course...as another side not to remember the HDDs, don't wait to download the files to an external HDD, or computer. All HDD cameras have been known to loose files, especially once more the 60-70% full.

 

[Dave Marshall]

I second Jason's statement about backing up FREQUENTLY, and want to expand on it.

The AVCHD format has its issues, whether its a hard drive, internal, or external flash based memory. They take great video, but editing and converting the video into something useable is processor intensive. On my HP dual core laptop it takes about 3 minutes to convert every minute of video from AVCHD into a standard resolution (720x480x30fps). While programs like Premiere Pro can handle the AVCHD video after some tinkering and less time consuming conversions, it still has to be converted some time.

At max resolution, my Canon Vixia HF100 gives me approximately 1 hour of record time per 8GB of disk space. That means that I can amass well over 10GB of data in a single chase, and transferring that to the computer can take upwards of 30 minutes with no conversion performed at all.

You need to make sure your computer is up to handling the digital video, especially if you hope to shoot in true 1080i. You should invest in an external hard drive, get AVS Video Encoder to do your conversions, and at least ensure your desktop at home is up to the task. I ended up building a portable desktop that can be put in the truck for editing video while chasing away from home.

The only problem as far as the actual video quality is that most of the AVCHD cameras under $1500 currently don't handle rapid motion very well. The compression artifacts become very visible very quickly with rapid contrast changes or when a large object (like a car) moves across the screen. I've never seen any problem with this at all in a weather setting except for the occassional lightning strike looking funky. They can be problematic for shooting news type video though. Investigate the particular model you're looking at carefully.

I love my HF100 and highly recommend it, but I really think chasers in particular (folks who aren't just recording their kids' birthday party in general) need to investigate thoroughly.

 

[Paul Knightley]

From what I've picked up (I'm also thinking about a new cam, and going HD!), HD cams with tapes still have the edge ATTM, as they compress less. However, AVCHD is catching up, and also offers full HD whereas tape is limited to 1440 rather than 1920. However, for me, I'm not sure I could stomach all my vacation footage being on 1 hard drive in the cam, worrying that if I drop it or lose it, all the stuff is gone! Tapes for me for the time being!

 

[Jason Foster]

As the way I read the article in VideoMaker, tapes are not going away, so feel safe getting a camera that has MiniDV (I doubt any have 8mm sized anymore). Besides with some of the Sony DVC tapes, the quality is really good.

I would not sweat the 1440 vs. 1920, as that is really a matter of full production and folks with thousands and thousands worth of equipment. 95% of what chasers do and record is very good at 1440.

 

[Paul Knightley]

Yes, true re: 1440, etc. At the moment, my trusty Sony Digital8 is still going strong, although it's 8 years old now, and there's an annoying scratch right in the centre of frame. If I do get a new one, it'll be at the start of May, to give me a couple of weeks to get used to it!

 

[Michael Towers]

Before buying the Sony HDR-XR520V I thought I'd check ST for info and found this topic informative. Saving video to HDD appeals to me, especially considering the vast 240GB (30 hrs. HD) capacity the 520 offers. The advice on backing up frequently is appreciated and makes the choice of the 520 vs. the 500 even more favorable. It's highly unlikely I'd get to 70% full on the 520 during a trip and while also unlikely on the 500 I'd rather not risk facing running out of space or losing data.

Chris
At the same time I found out that there are only a few video editing programs out there that can edit and render the AVCHD format the camera records in so anticipate this hurdle. I'm shopping around for a good one this week.

This was one of the issues of concern to me. My current SD camcorder outputs to disc in DVD format, editing is easy and so is converting. According to Sony they include Picture Motion Browser software that can convert AVCHD to DVD or Blue-ray. If you're exploring alternate programs does that mean you're dissatisfied with Sony's software?

Steve Miller OK:
I use a Sony hard drive camcorder and have never had a problem. I've run it on a windshield mount which gives it pretty good vibration, I've thrown it in the backseat, I've had it blow over on a tripod and various other rough handling. It's solid as a rock and my next camcorder (Panasonic HDC-HS300K Released 4/15) will be a hard drive based unit as well.

Just curious why you chose the Panasonic over the Sony. I'm happy with all my Sony products (Desktop, laptop, camcorder, widescreen HDTV), which was why I looked into Sony's line of HD cams. It seems your current Sony has weathered the storms yet you're switching brands. What advantages do you see with the Panasonic?

 

[Chris Karstens]

Thanks everyone for the response... this has motivated me toward purchasing the XR-500 camcorder... however, in reading through the specs, it appears there is no quick infinity focus... forcing the user to do it manually.

So, here's my next question.... does anyone know the behavior of the manual focus on the XR-500? Does the camcorder "lock" the manually specified focus, such that if you pan in/out, it will retain the near-infinity focus I specified? Or, will it switch to an auto-focus or some other default manual focus upon zooming? This would obviously be a problem....

I've tried testing this myself, but there are no electronics stores nearby that have it as a floor model to play with....

Thanks!

Chris

 

[Skip Talbot]

Yes, the 500 will lock its manual focus. There is a knob next to the lens with a button in the middle. You press the button, known as the manual button, and then twist the knob until you are at infinity focus, and it will hold that setting as you use the camera. It stays even if you turn the camcorder off and back on.