New member with a few questions

[Joey Prom]

I would like to discuss the forecast setup for the current day 2 slight risk, but I don't know the right forum/thread to do it in. I am still new to this site and to frocasting, so I am unsure if I should do it in the official Target Area forum. But I really want to learn the inns and outs of forecasting, in order to continue to improve. Please help point me in the right direction, thanks.

 

[B. Dean Berry]

Honestly, it's all just learning. Learn to start forecasting, learn your apps, learn your gear. Learning to chase in and of itself will come with time and experience.

As far as radio frequencies, 146.550 is a good place to start for chaser-to-chaser comms. Some places are starting to recommend a 114.8Hz TPL on transmit, and are using that PL on the receive side to cut out interference, but as mentioned, this has only been recommended by some local/state/regional EMA's, so run your receive in open CSQ.

I've been trying to get the ball rolling on additional frequencies, such as 147.550 NXDN Very Narrow digital with a RAN of 7.

Other common chaser frequencies that have seen use, albeit to a lesser extent than 146.550, are 146.460, 446.100, 446.075, and 1294.550.

I've been trying to get people using GMRS Channel 7/Code 7, or 462.7125 with an 85.4Hz TPL. This is to open universal simplex chaser comms to any chaser who wants it, without a license needed.

 

[Chris Demeniuk]

I would like to discuss the forecast setup for the current day 2 slight risk, but I don't know the right forum/thread to do it in. I am still new to this site and to frocasting, so I am unsure if I should do it in the official Target Area forum. But I really want to learn the inns and outs of forecasting, in order to continue to improve. Please help point me in the right direction, thanks.

Dan already started an EVENT thread for 12 March, which you may want to read if you haven't already. If you're new to this and feeling hesitant, the Introductory Weather and Chasing area may be a better spot to start your discussion. There are some good stickied posts there you might want to check out regarding learning resources. Make sure to read the rules in the Target Area forums for additional guidance before posting there.

If you're not sure about posting in TA, and decide to post in the Introductory area, I'll discuss the setup with you.

 

[Warren Faidley]

Best advice.... know what you are doing near big cities on higher risk days. Getting stuck in traffic or being delayed can kill you. I would suggest completely avoiding major metro areas like DFW or especially OKC on big days until you have a lot more experience. Don't rely 100 percent on radar and / GPS. You say you have "never been storm chasing." I strongly advise you find someone in the ST section were chasers are seeking to join up and share expenses and try to find someone with at least a moderate level of experience. Don't forget to have fun.

 

[Moe E]

Hey all, sorry for sort of lurking on a post that I haven't been involved in, I'm still new and am not sure of the rules, so pardon me if this is unfavorable.
I, too, have a few questions. I have all the gear needed (radar, maps, cameras, snacks and tunes) but I don't have the knowledge. I've watched Skip's Storm Spotting Secrets so many times I could quote it almost better than I can quote Twister, but there's some things that I'm having a hard time getting through my head. Last season, I tried keeping in mind the horseshoe at the bottom of the updraft base, however, I'm starting to think that I was getting confused with the RFD clear slot and standard issue hail cores. I haven't been able to catch up to any tornadoes yet so I haven't seen this in the field. With tornadic cells, is there usually a hail core off towards the inflow jet and the RFD clear slot and tell-tale horseshoe down towards the south?

 

[Chris Demeniuk]

Hey Moe!

Any chance you've done the NWS Skywarn program? If you haven't, I'd give it a go. It'll give you a good basic primer on storm structure and anatomy, in addition to safe spotting locations. It'll help you figure out where to find some of the things and areas you're asking about, and gives some photos of what they look like from the ground to help you identify them.

Since Covid-19 has shut down all the in-person trainings, it's a good time to plug the online series (2 free courses) that'll help get you up to speed, and the YouTube playlist that the NWS office in Norman, OK put together.

Going back to your horseshoe question, the RFD coming down through the updraft base is what creates the clear slot. The clear slot is the open area in the middle of the horseshoe. Not every supercell has a clear slot/horseshoe though (at least not right away), and not every horseshoe/clear slot means you're going to see a tornado. Here's a photo I took last year:



Mesocyclone... Check.
Rain free updraft base... Check.
Clear slot... Check.
Horseshoe... Check.
Tornado... Nope.

So don't get your hopes up, but don't get discouraged, either. It'll come with time. I hope this helps. Stay safe out there!

 

[Moe E]

Cheers for that! I am attending a spotter training on Monday (via webinar) so hopefully I can get some more answers then. Stupid question series of questions that are probably horribly trivial but here goes: the clear slot is not the same as a hail core correct? Do clear slots usually have that horseshoe shape rather than a doughnut shape? How do I tell the difference between a hail core and a RFD clear slot? Sorry, I'm a neuroanalyst by trade so I know brains but other sciences cause me to short circuit.

 

[Chris Demeniuk]

Cheers! Good deal on spotter training. After the webinar, it still might be a good idea to look at some of those other resources, especially the YouTube playlist. Diversify the portfolio, or... something.

As for your questions: A clear slot is not the same as a hail core, though the RFD (which forms the clear slot) can sometimes steal some hailstones and slingshot them through the area of the horseshoe and clear slot. If you find yourself near a clear slot/horseshoe, be vigilant. But the bigtime hail barrages don't fall there naturally. You'll learn about the precipitation core, FFD, and all the action that happens on the forward flank side of the storm in your spotter webinar.

As for visually identifying a clear slot vs a hail shaft, the clear slot looks like the photo in my previous response (photo was taken from the South/Southeast). The updraft base won't form a clear slot until the RFD comes barging in, though. Like Skip said in his video, the clear air may not always be visible, but the horseshoe usually is. I can only speak from my experiences, so I won't say that it will never look differently. But if you're a visual cues person (and you should be if you're near a supercell), the horseshoe is a good sign that a RFD cut is in progress. Hail will usually occur with the heaviest precipitation, and look like lighter/whiter streaks if you are able to see it sufficiently lit from your vantage point. Here's another photo I took last year:



This was taken from the West/Southwest (the 'back' of the storm). I got a late start and had to literally chase after this one as it moved away from me and to the left. See the hail shaft near the left edge of the picture? That thing dropped icy baseballs near Sterling, CO. I was never in a position to see the updraft base, so I can't tell you if it had a RFD cut/clear slot or not. It did not produce any tornadoes.

Does that help? Your spotter class will help you more. There are plenty of other threads here too, if you do some searchin'.

 

[Moe E]

Thank you so much! I know my questions are probably horribly trivial, thank you for your patience. I love the photos, I find myself out by Sterling quite often. In fact there was a storm out there last spring that had a rain wrapped beast in it and I only had MyRadar at the time and nearly drove straight into it, that's when I learned that velocity maps might be a good idea. I'll definitely take a look at more educational material, I tend to be very cautious so I think the more I know the more efficient I'll be as a chaser.
If you're not too bored from answering questions from newbies (if you are just tell me to go away lol), as a new chaser, what habits would you recommend I work on to make sure I'm not doing dumb newbie things that annoy veteran chasers? I know the basics, pull off the road fully, don't take unnecessary risks, don't go slow in the left lane, obey general traffic rules, etc. But what's the etiquette for say pulling into the same pull-off as another chaser and setting up shop (out of their shot obviously)? Or following a caravan of chasers? Or striking up conversation when encountering another chaser (given that they aren't in a hurry)? Things like that. Thanks again for your patience and taking the time to answer my questions

 

[Chris Demeniuk]

as a new chaser, what habits would you recommend I work on to make sure I'm not doing dumb newbie things

there was a storm out there last spring that had a rain wrapped beast in it and I only had MyRadar at the time and nearly drove straight into it

I'd recommend not doing that, for starters.

Sorry, that probably wasn't a nice way of putting it. But seriously, if a tornado is legit rain-wrapped, you're not going to see much. And especially if you're new at this, I can't think of any reason to encourage you to get up close to a rain-wrapped tornado, even if you had a DOW truck and knew exactly where it was. If you've watched Skip's catalogue, you'll know about the concept of the Bear's Cage and its attendant hazards. I'd recommend staying well outside of it for now. Just ask this guy (language warning) if you need more convincing. And recall what happened on the Lawrence, KS tornado last year. HP storm modes can be disorienting, and consequently cause a loss of situational awareness.

As for other things you can do to be accepted? I don't have all the answers. Hopefully others will chime in. Read up higher on this thread for some good suggestions. I've kept a very low profile for the 12 years I've been chasing. I'm only now starting to get into the social side of it, at the urging of others. But all that aside, my MO has always been "don't be a jerk to people." If you act considerate and are nice, most will respond in kind. Definitely don't follow other chasers without their permission. Here's a list of controversial topics that may elicit some strong views on this forum (and in real life) if you bring them up. And, um, yeah... the rest of the stickied threads at the top of the Introductory Weather and Chasing section are all worth reading. That oughtta get you through until Monday!

 

[Moe E]

Yeah the rain wrapped encounter was before I decided to really take this seriously and start educating myself.

Hopefully, after Monday I'll be a bit more informed. Thanks so much!

 

[Joey Prom]

I also can probably quote Skip more than Twister. I Also chased last year for the first time, learned a ton. My focus has been to always try to chase conservative at first, and continue to do that as I gain more experience. I just had a really successful chase on the 28th in IL, where I chased 2 storms which were tor warned and got into position to safely view the wall cloud/updraft region. This was a first for me and it finally allowed me the chance to apply all that I learned while under the pressure of navigating a threatening storm. I also obsessivly watched Rich Thompsons lecture series on tornado forecasting, in order to gain more knowledge of the forecasting side of things. There are some great videos on storm interactions and other mesoscale events to be aware of. The other thing that I did/continue to do, which has contributed greatly to my improvement, is I always try to have a takeaway from each chase. Something specific that I learned. It also helped to have a realistic chase goal. On my first chase it was literally, I am attempting my first forecast, lets go drive to an actual "storm". We did that and I called it successful. My second chase, "lets navigate to the SW side of a storm and try to stick with that storm. Anyways, this is getting long, but I guess I am just trying to share some of the tips and tricks I used as a beginner chaser. Take 'em or Leave 'em.

 

[Moe E]

That's some good advice! Thanks! Yeah, I only managed to catch one tornado as it was roping out in Wray, CO after dodging baseball sized hail. I think I was only able to catch it because I had come up behind it. Most other storms, I insisted on being in front to photograph the gust front and shelf cloud. I didn't consciously try to have a take away point from each chase but I think the majority of my chases were "successful" in that I found a storm, filled up an SD card and didn't get hail damage, minus a broken window from a microburst in Sharon Springs, KS.

Though, as you were describing with a realistic chase goal, I did try to focus on that. I figure that 99% of storms I chase won't produce tornadoes and most aren't even surface-based. Last season, I just tried to chase whatever popped up, just to start getting familiar with different cell structures and start to develop a system for navigating, chasing, setting up my cameras, safety, etc. I like your idea of having specific goals for each chase though. Got me thinking about starting a chase log and writing down my goals, observations, and learned lessons.

 

[Joey Prom]

I think that is a great idea Moe. Everyone is different/is in it for slightly different reasons, but for those that really want to learn quickly, I think its a good approach. I have yet to witness my first tor, but I have a really good feeling about this summer. I was about 5 minutes behind the Cambridge IL tor, but missed it because of dark and rain. And its only the beginning of April.