Another moron on Spotter Network

[terra seright]

I too have more respect for you for coming on here and replying to this thread. This truly is the lion's den. I agree with you, Erin, on much that you have said in your post....some people need to learn that there is a difference between being "PC" and being a decent, respectable human being. I even agree that it would be better to err on the side of caution.

Having said that, I must say that I would not have reported what is in your photos as a tornado. It looks nothing like a tornado. There is clearly no rotation. The edges are fuzzy, the lines inside are vertical....coming from someone who doesn't speak "meteorologist".

At best, this is the time to ask for someone else's opinion...oh wait, that would be wrong of you, you would be expecting something of someone. No one owes you a thing out there...even if you do look good in a bikini!

It is so easy to be over excited about what you're seeing, and make a bad judgement. You really do have to take a breath, consult photos of other wedge tornadoes (since it is a wedge that we are referring to here), do what you need to do in order to make sure that you are looking at what you are about to report, because it truly is an item of importance. Remember, you may not get arrested for your report, but you could cause someone "undue stress" and run the risk of being sued!

I have made my share of mistakes out there, too. I just haven't done so in writing, where others can look at it and pick it apart. This is a learning experience. Everyone has to get their start somewhere, which is something that many of us seem to forget...be it storm chasing, nursing, or any other profession or hobby. We are all morons from time to time.

 

[Karen St John]

Erin, it took real fortitude for you to participate in this thread, and I commend you for that.

I also apologize for making fun of you in my post.

Preaching to the choir (and coming from a Skywarn spotter's point of view): please remember that emergency resources are in a large measure mustered or redirected based on ground confirmations. We don't want resources going off to false alarms, while a real alarm is going on elsewhere. Also, cities that shut down and send their residents to the shelters can lose huge amounts of money and productivity needlessly, to say nothing of inuring these same people to possible real alarms later on.

That's my .02.

 

[Jim Saueressig]

Got another person tonight reporting a funnel from well East of the line at Junction City KS and nothing on radar to substantiate the claim. Second bad report of the day, Also reported 30 mph winds. I am simply thinking some more experience might come in handy before some reports are made.

 

[Chris Engleman]

I think what really made this report stand out to others is the extreme detail that was put into the report. The time it took to think about and write all those words could have been used to look for rotation and other clues. As they say in crime dramas... Just the facts ma'am. I have been close to reporting something, but I waited. I watched the storm and I will admit 1/4 the time I would have been incorrect had I reported what I thought I saw. Another reason to have a back channel available between chasers/spotters, to ask others to look at what you are seeing and get their prospective.

Chris

 

[Karen St John]

I think what really made this report stand out to others is the extreme detail that was put into the report. The time it took to think about and write all those words could have been used to look for rotation and other clues. As they say in crime dramas... Just the facts ma'am. I have been close to reporting something, but I waited. I watched the storm and I will admit 1/4 the time I would have been incorrect had I reported what I thought I saw. Another reason to have a back channel available between chasers/spotters, to ask others to look at what you are seeing and get their prospective.

Chris

The more eyes on the storm, the better. That structure was worth a first glance, just not reporting as a tornado without others sets of eyes verifying rotation and debris.

What we have here is failure to communicate - continually, and accurately.

 

[Aaron Estman]

I've been reading through this thread for the past 2 hours. (Erin's response took up a very long part of that. At 2:44am, my eyes started bugging out on me after the 2nd paragraph. Nicely written, by the way.) And I commend you for coming in here and defending yourself.

In the time that I've known you, Erin, you seem'd pretty level headed in the storm chasing area. Albeit a little dull, but becoming even more sharp with every chase. You have a lot of heart and passion in this. I've seen you one day in west Texas, the next in Kansas, and the next in Iowa, then back in west Texas.

For a person who chases as much as you, I cannot really understand how you see a tornado in the pictures you posted. Yes, probably to a spotter, or someone who's out on their first chase, it could look like a large tornado, but you should have known it wasn't with the experience you've had.

That evening of February 10th, 2009, while we were all staring over that lake, (I don't think Tyler Constantini was there with us, I might be wrong though), yeah, you were the one to first to ask if that was a tornado. I know Eric was hesitant to call it out, and I know damn sure I was too. Once we all were in agreement with each other on what we were seeing, we reported it. We didn't jump to conclusions, we waited, we studied it, and then we reported it.

I'm not here to 'diss' or talk down on you. I know you're a good chaser, and your hearts in the right place. Wanting to report it and save lives, get the warning out as fast as possible. But in that little moment when you're having that rush of adrenaline, stop, look at what you're thinking could be the tornado, and assess it for 10-20 seconds. Look for the signs.

Now, everyone makes mistakes, albeit not this major, but everyone is only human.

Now, it's 2:58am, and I have an all-day concert to get to in the morning. Good night everyone.

 

[Rob H]

Now, everyone makes mistakes, albeit not this major, but everyone is only human.

I wouldn't call this a major mistake. It was an unusual weather occurrence that was reported poorly - which happens much more than once a year. Information was sent that this might be an inaccurate report, and the system worked as intended. In a perfect world, the report would have been flagged 9 times and Erin would've had the opportunity to educate herself on the mistake. Then everyone would've moved on.

I'm not a fan of exposing personal details (and pictures that you know will get attention) on places like Facebook. Erin, you might want to consider what your Internet persona exposes, because in this society, let alone this community, you can't easily hide behind a handle or an anonymous account.

That being said, the scrounging of personal information reminds me of something I'd see on the "grungier" corners of the internet. I'm kind of disappointed at the name calling, the sexism, the investigation, etc. - but I'm also not that surprised. We're chasers, but we're all still human, as Aaron pointed out. Most of us can probably learn a little from this 90 post thread.

 

[Jeff Duda]

It was an unusual weather occurrence...

I would hardly call a rain shaft from a convective thunderstorm an unusual weather occurrence...

 

[Rob H]

I would hardly call a rain shaft from a convective thunderstorm an unusual weather occurrence...

I wasn't trying to imply that Erin saw something rare and got hoodwinked, so I apologize if it came off that way. 9 out of 10 people on the street probably wouldn't know what that feature was, and it was unusual to Erin - and my intentions were to allude to that.

I don't think it was a good report, she should have known better, and I wouldn't have made the same report. I also don't think that the mistake warrants a public flogging.

 

[Karen St John]

Well, after all,

 

[Jeff Duda]

I wasn't trying to imply that Erin saw something rare and got hoodwinked, so I apologize if it came off that way. 9 out of 10 people on the street probably wouldn't know what that feature was, and it was unusual to Erin - and my intentions were to allude to that.

I don't think it was a good report, she should have known better, and I wouldn't have made the same report. I also don't think that the mistake warrants a public flogging.

Thank you for clarifying.

What you say also explains why 9 out of 10 people don't, or shouldn't, be submitting tornado reports.

Also, if you check my posts in this thread, you'll see I have never used any ill words against Erin.

 

[Jason Boggs]

I also don't think that the mistake warrants a public flogging.

Sure it does. That's the way people learn from their mistakes. Now, I'm not saying that the name calling was right, but it definitely should have been brought out in the open for scrutiny. Bringing it out in the open did this:

*It taught other newbies that we take false reports very serious.
*Erin became a member here and has learned the above statement.
*She now knows that a rain shaft is not a tornado.

Like someone said in this thread...There was nothing at all wrong with her thinking the rain shaft was a tornado. The mistake was when she called it in as one.

 

[Andrew Stoller]

There was nothing at all wrong with her thinking the rain shaft was a tornado.

Yea, but for someone who claims to have chased seriously for 4 years, been interested in and studied severe weather since childhood, and witnessed a few notable recent tornadoes, I think there "might" be something wrong with thinking the storm in question was producing a wedge tornado...

 

[Jason Boggs]

Yea, but for someone who claims to have chased seriously for 4 years, been interested in and studied severe weather since childhood, and witnessed a few notable recent tornadoes, I think there "might" be something wrong with thinking the storm in question was producing a wedge tornado...

Oh, I agree with you on that. It shouldn't have ever happened at all. I've been chasing for 12 years and sometimes I have to analyze something out in the field to see exactly what it is. You know, maybe a tornado look a like or something. I won't call in a report unless I'm 100% sure of what I'm looking at.

That's what I meant when I said it was ok for her to think the rain shaft was a tornado, but she failed when she called it in.

 

[Matthew K. Hartman]

My first step into Storm Track in 8 months and this is the first thread I come across? I see nothing has changed.

Personally, I think ALL storm chasers that have come into this hobby over the past 10 years (especially over the past 5!) have lost sight of the advice Dr. Chuck Doswell gave many, many years ago: "It's not something I would especially encourage, in fact, I would discourage someone from doing so (storm-chasing). And if they were to decide to do so, that they spend 'extensive' time with an experienced chaser before chasing alone."

I, literally, had no one to go to, myself my first year or two, but I sure learned and read about this hobby from the best. I had the advantage of exchanging e-mails with David Hoadley, Al Moller, and several other Storm Chasing Pioneers back when Chris Novy was running the WX-CHASE List-Serv's.

My, oh my, were those the days...

Somewhere, someone needs to post this quote from Dr. Doswell, so that every new chaser reads it. It hits a VERY important point that needs to reach the community. And probably one that, literally, half here, have never heard, or read. Heck, it may even help some of these cases from becoming such issues...

BTW: Erin, I respect you much more that you stuck up for yourself. It takes a strong person to write what you did. There are points and counter-points I agree with, but I'm not wasting valuable bandwidth to address them. All I can say is, Erin, don't let a few bullies stop you from what YOU enjoy. Learn from the experiences (good and bad), Lord knows we all have.

Greetings --