Another Black Eye For Chasers?

[Bob Hartig]

I've been chasing for a few years now and seen a few tornadoes, but never in the heart of tornado alley nor with the kind of slow-moving, photogenic storms as this week's. Tuesday southwest of Hill City was my first encounter with a nice, slow-moving southern Plains tornado. It was also my first experience with chaser convergence, and I have to say, I was amazed. The only thing missing was the popcorn truck--and this was not on some well-traveled main artery. It was on a backroad of rain-slick Kansas clay.

Did I mention that this was my second experience with wet Kansas clay? Even in my buddy's 4WD, navigating the stuff is like driving in pudding. How on earth is anyone supposed to pull off to the side without getting stuck? We found it hard just to keep moving without getting slurped into the mud, at which point our wheels would most certainly have gotten buried (which, by the way, is exactly what happened in my first encounter with Kansas clay).

Backroads--solitude? Not on the one we took. I can't feel too badly about it since I'm part of the problem, but I want to see the storms just as much as anyone, and I'm learning as I go along. Evidently finding the right storm is only part of the challenge; finding a decent place to park is the other part.

 

[Jayson Prentice]

Well that story has a bit of a different twist on it though, doesn't make it sound nearly as bad as the previous one. Even the last line kind of shows that us chasers might not be so bad after all... Although that Ralph should definitely watch what he says a bit more carefully, as I think somebody already mentioned this, but if he were to lose all of this 'chasers' I think he would have a hard time tracking the storm by himeself. I love this sentence though "After hearing that they might be ticketed, the storm chasers scattered, he said." So word must have spread damn fast and I can't believe that most of the 200 left after hearing that!! Maybe more like the storm was moving on?? Another thing that bothers me about him is the fact that he points out seasoned 'spotters' like the Univ. of Oklahoma and NCAR. What makes them spotters and not chasers? And I'm pretty sure there are several chasers here that have as much experience as them and at least the same knowledge (no offense to OU or NCAR).

 

[Mikey Gribble]

I like how Ralph refered to the highways as "ours". Last time I checked the federal government helped pay for state highways and everyone one of the chasers out there that day has just as much right to those highways as Ralph. The funny thing IMO is that cops get hit by tornadoes all the time, but some of them act as if they are on a pedestal when it comes to tracking and reporting on the storms. I haven't heard of too many chasers getting hit by tornadoes on accident. I can understand emergency workers needing unimpeded access when there is structural damage and injuries, but when it comes to reporting accurately on a storm the cops don't bring much to the table. Chasers and spotters are the ones reporting and keeping the public informed and safe, but Ralph is playing it off like most chasers are nothing more than a nuisance. After reading that second article I would love force feed Ralph a piece of humble pie. I have a hard time believing that Ralph isn't embellishing a bit and trying to look tough for the papers.

 

[Shane Adams]

Who's gonna volunteer to quit? Who's gonna sit out even days and who's gonna sit out odd days so the crowds aren't bad?

Yeah that's what I thought.

Crowds are the state of chasing in 2007 folks. You can either deal with it or let it eat you alive. Nobody has more right to be out there looking for storms/tornadoes than anyone else, I don't care what the agenda is. Are YOU gonna ask (or tell) someone else they shouldn't be there? I know I'm not, cause I don't have anymore right to the roads than the next person.

If you hate crowds, stay home, or chase the low-risk area, or just close your eyes, think of a warm happy place, and hope it all goes away. I too find it a pain in the ass sometimes out there because of the huge numbers, but I can't really point fingers because, like all of you, I'm part of the problem. But it's a problem I'm willing to accept and deal with. Hey, I'm not a hypocrite; I was cussing a lot last Wednesday because we couldn't find a single spot to pull over that wasn't already occupied....made even more excruciating because all I wanted at the time was a place to p#ss. But hey, this is chasing today, and I'll deal with it.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

NE Kansas NPR radio mentioned the story.

Seamed like most the congestion was around the DOW and tornado intercept vehicles. I don't know if there are DOW groupies out there but I also remember seeing a large crowd around them last year north of GRI. There was one south bound vehicle stopped in the driving lane, probably visiting with someone for a second. That was the worst thing I saw on U283.

No doubt there were a lot of chasers out there Tuesday, but how many of the pulled over cars were just people waiting for the storm to pass?

Man, there are TONS of DOW groupies. I remember watching the DOWs go by in Republican County Kansas a few years ago... followed by about 20 cars, trucks, and SUVs. I'm sure it annoys them to no end, though I guess it's hard to blame those who follow -- if there's something to see, you're sure to see something if you're where the DOWs are.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

It sounds like you saw the same two women (that get attention for their catchy name instead of their accomplishments as chasers; hint, hint) doing this that I did Brandon. I wasn't with any other cars when I went around them though. There wasn't anybody around us at that point, which just goes to show that they either did this multiple times or these two women stayed parked at this same location blocking the road even after other chasers had to go through the grass to get around them.

I believe they are involved in the filming of a reality television show, so it is possible that they were not the ones making the call as to the parking/filming methodologies. National TV crews have a habit of just doing whatever the heck they want to to get the best shot.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Assuming 350 chasers at any given time anywhere on the Plains during peak season, let's look at some possible numbers.

Gross hotel revenue: $21,000.00 per day
Assuming a $60/night average per person.

Gross fuel revenue: $31,500.00 per day
Assuming 1.7 fill-ups per car per day or $90 average fuel expenditure per day.

Gross food revenue: $15,000.00 per day
Assuming one fast-food lunch, one fast-food dinner, breakfast, snack and drink, plus the occasional sit-down meal ($20 per person per day)

Total gross revenue from 350 chasers: $67,500.00 per day

Assuming two weeks of prime chase time in late May, the total gross revenue received from chasers alone would be:

$945,000.00

Not counting rental cars, airline tickets and tour fee income taxes.

That's nearly a million dollars in gross revenue from chasers during two weeks. It's entirely possible that through a full season (March-June), chasers may pump more than $3 million into the struggling small-town economies on the Great Plains. I'm sure Shamrock will be able to pave a few streets with the hotel tax revenue the county got this week.

 

[Greg Stumpf]

Assuming 350 chasers at any given time anywhere on the Plains during peak season, let's look at some possible numbers.

Dan,

These are absolutely the best case scenarioes. To refute, even with 350 chasers:

Hotel cost: Most chasers travel from their homes, and go home to sleep at night. The remainder who use hotels are usually grouped up in groups of 2 or more. So that cost is significantly reduced.

Fuel: Only a trickle is going into the local economy for fuel sales. Convenience stores make very little profit from fuel sales (98-99% goes to the gasoline company), and some of the profit is absorbed by the credit card transaction fees (to help, we could pay for our gas using cash, but then that slows us down). Their real profit margin comes from sales of goods from within the store. They only hope that folks who buy fuel come inside to buy more stuff.

Food: Some chasers pack their own lunches and snacks (I try to), but this one is probably close to on the button. Junk food makes the score.

I won't argue that the local economy gets a small boost, but it is probably not a justifiable argument to local officials who are most concerned with public safety.

 

[Susan Strom]

We talk about this topic all the time, but I think it's a matter of individual officer discretion. Some LEOs will have a hard on for chasers, and you can expect tickets for breaking the law, whereas others will continue to stop you and ask about the weather.

Actually it isn't entirely a matter of individual officer discretion. That officer might be located in some remote county out in the West Grassland of Nowhere, but last time I checked it was American soil, on which, the Fourth Amendment applies.

I'm sorry, but the following items do not denote probable cause:

1. Making a traffic stop just to ask about the weather
2. Pulling someone over on personal bias with no other reason
3. Stopping someone for 3mph over
4. Wanting to flirt
5. Wanting to ask what's inside the chase truck just for amusement purposes

I have been stopped twice in the Plains, but was never cited (reasons 4 and 5). I'm sorry but NOT acceptable.

I'm not anti-cop. Quite the opposite, I've done volunteer work in support of my local PD for 3 years. They are great people there, all of them. I've not met one I didn't like. However, when I'm chasing in the Plains and NO violation whatsoever is being committed...not even a slight suspicion of anything...I'll be looking for a valid reason if I'm stopped. I'm not going to throw my Constitutional rights clean out the window.

 

[Jesse Risley]

Actually it isn't entirely a matter of individual officer discretion. That officer might be located in some remote county out in the West Grassland of Nowhere, but last time I checked it was American soil, on which, the Fourth Amendment applies.

I'm sorry, but the following items do not denote probable cause:

1. Making a traffic stop just to ask about the weather
2. Pulling someone over on personal bias with no other reason
3. Stopping someone for 3mph over
4. Wanting to flirt
5. Wanting to ask what's inside the chase truck just for amusement purposes

I have to disagree on a few points, but my comments about officer discretion were not intended to apply to cases where someone has broken no laws either. I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make here. My comments refer to officer discretion when chasers either break the law or do something that "arguably" threatens their own safety or public safety in general (which may not be immediately illegal but the police can do something). Cops who stop chasers to talk about the weather are at least trying to be friendly and would presumably be on our side.

While it may be a chicken crap stop, the speed limit is the speed limit. If you are breaking the law by exceeding the legal speed limit (all technical analysis aside), you can be stopped and you can be cited and it can hold up in a court of law because I had to pay my ticket for 3 over. I learned this the hard way, even though I disagreed with the logic at the time.

You can't argue that the police can't enforce the law if the offender is only "slightly" breaking the law. Yeah, I think there are bigger things to worry about, but you really can't whine if you were breaking the law and got caught.

 

[Jason Bolt]

With the storms we have had here this year, all the chasers I have seen have been respectful and several have been out and out helpful. As I've said several times, whenever someone has time to stop and talk to a local EM or LEO it is mostly appreciated. I know I'm preaching to the choir, and the respectable chaser community should not have to make up for the derelict of others but facts are facts. When people block roads, drive reckless, pass emergency vehicles it hurts to chaser community as a whole. We cannot make people stop behaving irresponsibly so instead we can chose to make a positive contribution whenever possible.

Also, I was on the Nickerson storm and, while I was impressed as it was the biggest chaser convention I had ever seen, it also seemed most folks did everything they could to drive respectfully given the congestion.

 

[Doug_Kiesling]

The problem is that their are three groups of chasers.

Group one: A very small group is the professional weather paparazzi types or the tour groups. The tour groups is just that, there a fraction of the people out there. The Paparazzi, are there to get the shot and then move onto the next storm or project. Don't give a rats arse about being famous, just want to make sure we get a check within 90-120 days of the storm for the video or photo.

The researchers, another very small group (not counting V2 project) and the college groups.

Both of those groups numbers have not changed very much from what I have seen.

Then there are the yahoo chasers AKA The Viral Superstars. Those who see something on TV and say that looks like something I can do...
There are so many people out there now thinking that their going to sell video and be the next viral super star. Only one problem, The Weather Channel news desk is waiting for free video before they spend a dime on any storm chasing footage this season.

The days of the big money chasing for video are dead. Now all that is left is everyone trying to get their 15 seconds of fame. This video pretty much says it all. http://www.currenttv.com/pods/joegets/PD06065 Just a lot of Viral Superstars out there trying to copy what they have seen on TV.

 

[cdcollura]

I concur with Doug...

Unfortunately, storm chasing will NOT earn you money ... Unless you are with a bonafide news crew or media.

If you are lucky, you might get a video crew to ride along with you, such as a Japanese TV crew that has rode with a chase partner of mine once.

In that case, maybe gas will get paid-for (yeeeahh!), a meal, or hotel, but not much else - You'll break even if that.

Any chase team, from scientists to "yahoos" must respect one another and be very sensitive to their driving and courtesy as well. We all have made mistakes, and I am no exception.

I am guilty of speeding - like many of us, such as rushing to a TOR warned sup or even trying to make a flight out of KC after chasing in the TX panhandle just 6 hours prior!

For any "yahoo" or newbie chaser out there ... I strongly suggest what you are getting yourselves into by taking up storm chasing...

1). Storm chasing is NOT 100% excitement. It's 90% boredom and 10% of excitement in short "spurts" ... That's why there are such things as skydiving and theme parks ;-)

2). Plan on driving many many miles. Boring landscape, traffic, thousands of miles in a car for hours sitting down. If you are the "are we there yet?" type of person, chasing is not for you.

3). Storm chasing is dangerous - Driving in itself is dangerous to begin with. Throw a storm environment into the mix, with large chaser convergences, speeding, distractions, etc - Statistics 101 make the danger more obvious.

4). Respect the hobby as well as yourself and others. Law enforcement is becoming more and more anal and nasty stopping chasers who even speed a couple of miles over the limit now-adays. Use common sense - Don't pass with a hill ahead of you, never pull out quickly in front of traffic, pull OFF the road to take pictures - Signal adequately when doing so - Simple things so none of us look like the wreckless "idiots" we saw in Twister in 1996!

5). Hopefully we will not have to deal with this one - but it is possible in this "line of work": Responding to a "fresh" disaster area. It's happened on May 3, 1999 in OKC, Katrina in 2005, and most recently, May 4, 2007 in Greensburg, KS. You have to stop and help out. I would (and I did in Katrina) - Although the sight might haunt you for the rest of your life ;-(

 

[Doug_Kiesling]

There is one solution for all the law enforcement and its not banning chasing, it not even making new laws. Not sure how many of you live in the big cities but it takes about 15 seconds for the parking enforcement to issue a parking ticket. All the counties need to do is call in back up on days that NWS says skywarn may be needed. Put the extra explorers out there with parking ticket machines and just start entering license plate numbers and handing out $150 parking tickets.

You can come back and go to court and protest it but how many chasers from out state will travel back to Hays to go to court for a parking ticket.
They can write up a ticket just as fast as the Rental Car companies can check you out and print a receipt from the hip.

100 Chasers @ $150.00, that is $15,000.00 in fines issued in about an hour.
All the county would need to do is issue something to their local skywarn trained spotters to put in their window like a commercial delivery car or truck that can park in no parking zones and everyone else is screwed.

At $15k a day in parking tickets issued to out of area chasers for parking during a non emergency or even in an emergency if your out shooting video and not hiding in a ditch, if I was on the county board I know I would be seeing new income from an outside source that does not affect my tax payers and be all for it.

 

[Zack Borst]

Hey, I am new but think I could offer some insight into this situation. I was a deputy for 2 years before I had to quit to go to school. The problem with civilians, chasers, etc... basically anyone who is not involved in actual emergency services is simply that while they may want to help, it only takes one to screw it all up. Rather than getting upset at this guy because of what he said you all should be getting mad at whoever it was who screwed up. Groups like REACT, SKYWARN, and ARES usually get a couple of whack jobs who like to think that they report directly to the president. The truth is that when the group has its stuff together and is willing to play nice than they can be a HUUUGE asset, but if one guy acts like an idiot than the entire group is now going to be labeled useless or even dangerous. I am a firefighter/EMT-B on two depts, one home and one at school and have been doing the fire/ems thing for almost 6 years. I have run into situations where civilians have tried to overstep their boundaries and I have told them that if they do not cease what they are doing they will be arrested. Now they are trying to help but that help turns into a hinderence and a situation we don't have the time to deal with.