Another Black Eye For Chasers?

[Jesse Risley]

I was stopped in the chase van coming back from a tornado (ended up being straightline) -- but it was by a state trooper for 5 over. MSP is not friends with anyone, I've never had a problem with the locals. Fortunately a car hit a deer up ahead so he had to bail before writing...

Haha..I can beat that..ISP wrote me for 38 mph in a 35 mph zone during a special enforcement detail two summers ago, and no I did not give the guy any attitude to "deserve" a ticket that strict.

We talk about this topic all the time, but I think it's a matter of individual officer discretion. Some LEOs will have a hard on for chasers, and you can expect tickets for breaking the law, whereas others will continue to stop you and ask about the weather.

We're not going to change the bad driving habits of every chaser, but hopefully a few of us think about the image we portray next time we're behind the wheel. Showing common courtesy on the road can go a long way towards setting a more positive public perception towards chasing.

 

[Jack Carlson]

I was wondering about those who "dont really chase" but like to hang out and criticize and stir trouble. I was wondering about what they think about this situation. Anyone?

I might fall into the category of one who does not get to get out and chase that often (I don’t think I am a pot stirrer though )... I had a long rambling dissertation on why I thought a battle between chasers and local officials happens but I think I can put it in simpler terms that I am sure most of us already know…

Chasers = ProTornado
NonChasers and Local Officials = AntiTornado

Now before everyone rips me a new one, this is just a perception which I think most locals have… And unfortunately, all it takes is one bite into a rotten apple to forget all the good ones in the same bag, that is human nature… So next time you think you're being persecuted just because you are a chaser, remember it is not a fight you will win, all it will be is more ammo for the local to think they way they do about chasers…

 

[Greg Stumpf]

As for the chaser convergence and numbers... anyone here going to quit chasing anytime soon?

*waiting*

I didn't think so... welcome to the new chasing world. Just don't be idiots!

Tony,

Do you actually think those who've quit chasing are going to be on the social forums anymore? Hence the silence.

I know of several ex-chasers who have either given it up or have severely curtailed their hobby because of all the crowds now. Some are long-time veterans. It is happening.

I'm like Umscheid as well with regard to scheduling my chase vacation - in mid-June. I made this decision about 8 years ago (after "Sitka Day" in 1999) when I realized that I would rather enjoy my vacation when fewer others were. The same strategy is used for other places I like to vacation (e.g., Yellowstone in October).

Hmmmm....I probably shouldn't give away any more of my "avoid the crowds" secrets on a public list!

 

[Brian Stertz]

This spring the events have been very focused on single or double targets and this has put the concentration of chasers into a small area all at one time. Scott Currens and I were talking about that on our latest chase that this spring has been unique in that manner. The March 28th event was a bit more spread out, but the bulk of the chasers stuck to that southern Texas Panhandle target and had some great chasing there on the somewhat limited road grid between Silverton and I-40. Just wondering what June will hold for this trend to continue. June events are often in clusters or individual rogue supercells...so things may actually get worse with this convergence issue.

 

[Tony Laubach]

Do you actually think those who've quit chasing are going to be on the social forums anymore? Hence the silence.

Of course not... hence my remark. Most speaking on the topic of crowded roads are adding to the numbers themselves; myself included. I hate the crowds as much as the next person, but as long as I am adding to the crowds... well yeah... LOL

I try to do my part; shove three others in my van and keep the number of Colorado-knuckleheaded vehicles to a min.

As for my chasing vacation; I go through the first weekend in July, so I'm also hopeful to enjoy a few quiet weeks on the road towards the end of my trip.

I think the economy will take its course at some point... whether it be car-pool chasing; people just not chasing, or whatever... unless gas does something miraculous, my thoughts are to see less vehicles on the road as an overall trend. Obviously days like Hill City will occur from time-to-time, but having 50 vehicles out on a marginal slight risk day won't be the norm as many will be waiting for better setups before spending a fortune on gas. Maybe I'm wrong, but as a scientist, I'm entitled to my theories!

I guess its like shopping the malls at Christmas... the crowds are inevitable, and if you hate them that much, you don't go to the mall. Most of here, again back to my original comment, don't have that frame of mind... we may hate the crowds or could care less about them, but we still go out. When 200 vehicles full of chasers has that mind-set, you know what's going to occur.

As for the original post on the topic at hand, with 200 vehicles out, there are bound to be bone-headed things done. I can certainly understand the issue emergency folks have with that. Try driving down I-25 in rush hour with over 200 vehicles sitting within a mile or two. It sucks! They're not use to that out there! Seriously... when was the last time you had 200 vehicles sitting on a remote Kansas highway! LOL I'd be a bit crazy, too!

 

[Mikey Gribble]

I am all for people quiting because they don't like the crowds. It will just make more room for those of us who are willing to stick it out. I can't imagine anybody that is really passionate about chasing quitting because traffic slows down a few times a year when you have bad chaser convergence. If you get on the dirt roads it really isn't bad at all. If you get on the muddy roads it is virtually deserted, except for the one or two other idiots that are doing everything possible not to get stuck. IME when you get in closer than a mile or so the're really aren't too many people around unless the updraft base/wall cloud/tornado happens to be directly over a paved road.
I do think that the crowds have been worse this year than any other year, but I agree with Brian on the idea that this has more to do with a lack of a broad target area more than anything else. It seems like there has only been one good storm in each target area on most of the tornado days this year, so everybody that targeted within 100 miles of that storm sucks to it as soon as it becomes apparent that that storm is going to be the only show in town. We went from seeing literally nobody on the Nickerson storm (when it was struggling) to a god damn parade within a 30 minute period. It was unbelieveable.
I have never seen very big crowds in the Dakotas later in the season, especially on week days and it is beautiful country so maybe that is the way to go.

 

[Jeremy Lemanski]

I was stopped in the chase van coming back from a tornado (ended up being straightline) -- but it was by a state trooper for 5 over. MSP is not friends with anyone, I've never had a problem with the locals. Fortunately a car hit a deer up ahead so he had to bail before writing...

It must very on who works the local posts. I haven't had any problems yet, knock on wood, with the MSP when i was going maybe 5 over and passed one sitting along the road or driving by, but then again i usually stick to the backroads so i don't see too many.

What i really need to watch out for is that one man police force of the small towns around here. They have nothing better to do and usually sit right behind the first building inside the lowered speed limit area and grab the first person who hasn't slowed down enough.

On a completely different tune, one county cop gave a warning to a friend of mine for pulling off the road, getting out of her car, and walking across the road to get her mail. He told her he was arrest her if she ever did that again.

 

[Jim Southard]

My thoughts in this post can just be prefaced with one great big FWIW. I too get very annoyed with congestion and traffic - that's one of the reasons I moved out of Southern California a few years back. One of the last things I want to deal with is a traffic jam in a remote area on a sometimes less than optimal road network. What's more, massive convergences are far more dangerous than a traffic jam because of the unpredictable behavior of a large group of highly distracted chasers - and I know, not everyone is like that, but some are, which has led us to these unsafe incidents where it's a minor miracle that nobody has been injured.

Call me thin-skinned, but I just don't want to deal with that anymore. I have altered my chasing style over the years in search of a happy medium. I'm sure others have adopted similar practices, and for others it's old hat, but who knows... since we're having this discussion again, maybe some of my thoughts might be helpful to you.

1. Don't get close.

Often times, you can get a much better view of a storm from a good distance away. You probably would miss developments at the updraft base from a vantage point 5-15 miles distant, but the improved view of the total storm is worth it, IMO. Plus, at that distance you achieve some separation from the convergences near the meso.

2. Calculate your intercepts ahead of time, and arrive early.

This one is tricky, because storm motions can be highly changeable in both speed and direction. But if you know for example, that a storm is 40 miles SW of Town X, moving NE at 20 mph, then you know you have two hours to attempt to position yourself somewhere in the vicinity of Town X, arriving well ahead of the storm. If you beat the crowds, and have time to scout around, you might be able to stake out one of the best (and perhaps safest?) locations early. In addition, while waiting for the storm's arrival, you also get to enjoy the benefits of item (1) above.

The downside to this (or maybe the upside, depending on your opinion) is that if you guess the storm motion incorrectly, you could end up someplace you don't want to be (all hail the hail), or too far away to see what you had hoped for. Plus even if you choose wisely, the chaser convergence may form around you anyway.

3. Seek out "nontraditional" vantage points.

If you're watching a supercell and you have your heart set on seeing a tornado, odds are you'll be sitting with everyone else ahead of the updraft region. Sometimes you can get a nice view of the meso (and developing tornado) from the S, or even the W as long as there's not too much precip wrapping around the circulation. Sometimes from the W you'll be afforded a very impressive view of the updraft, more so if the cloud tower is backlit by the sun. If your view of the tower from the backside remains unobstructed after dark, you can take phenomenal lightning pics.

There are the disadvantages of taking a position behind the updraft... if the storm motions are too fast you'll lose the storm quickly, or if it transitions to HP you won't see much, or that if a complex (squall line or MCS) develops you'll find yourself in the oh-so-exciting stratiform rain region.

4. Go for less attractive targets.

Once storms are going, chasers will naturally flock to the supercells. If the opportunity presents itself, try following a left-split for a while. You'll leave a lot of the crowds behind that way. I'm a bit biased because I personally am fascinated by left-splits. It's cool in a mindbending sort of way trying to match up the structural appearance of a left-split with the theoretical models (wait, I need to be on the northwest side to see the updraft base?). Left-splits can often exhibit the same sort of supercell structure that we all know and love... just a bit backwards sometimes. Plus if you get a really prolific hail producing left-split, I'm sure your reports of softball or larger hail will be very appreciated. Following the left-split over the right-split does tend to decrease your chances of seeing a tornado though... and sometimes the left-splits fire up their warp drives and go rocketing away at 90 mph.


I apologize if I'm preaching to the choir here. I know everyone has their own chasing style and their own goals when they go out. But because a lot of folks are frustrated, I thought I'd just throw out a few ideas from my experiences in getting around the problems that cause me aggravation, and how I came to enjoy chasing again.

 

[Josh Murfield]

This may be slightly off topic but how many of you are chasing incognito? I dont have anything on my car and sometimes I get nearly run off the road and/or taligated because I guess I dont have any anemometers or flashing lights. I was pleasantly surprised yesterday to see I am not the only one who doesnt have all that stuff as there were quite a few "unmarked" vehicles out there.

And I have been given a ticket while chasing in a news vehicle - Kiowa, Ok (south of McAlester) and I was only going 5 over and he even wrote me up for no insurance since they didnt have a updated insurance card in there. We did fax him proof the next week and he dropped the no insurance. I was pulled over a few other times for questions but usually they would just follow me till I stopped then they would do the questioning.

I'm one of those who chase in a completely "unmarked" vehicle, I suppose I just look like a local out there because of that so I have never gotten any attention. (which is probably a good thing)

 

[Ben Prusia]

I chased this storm in Trego/Graham Counties on Tuesday and I opted more for the non-paved road choices. Sure the roads were muddy in Graham County after the rain but when you have 4 wheel drive and a high base on your car (Xterra), why not? I felt like I was the only car out there. I did not encounter more than 2 cars while driving east from Saint Peter all the way to US 283. While I did join the crowd at US 283, I am going to try my best to stick to the less traveled roads, that is why most of us use GPS?

If you all can remember, the Hutchinson paper also wrote an article criticizing chasers on the Nickerson cell back in April. The article basically said the same things as the article on the Hill City event. The next time there is another large chaser convergence, there is probably going to be another article.

 

[Greg Stumpf]

I have altered my chasing style over the years in search of a happy medium. I'm sure others have adopted similar practices, and for others it's old hat, but who knows... since we're having this discussion again, maybe some of my thoughts might be helpful to you.

Hey Jim...

SHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

 

[Mikey Gribble]

I did the same thing Ben did on the Nickerson storm and the Hill City storm and stayed on the back roads. I didn't do it do get away from the crowds, but it had that affect. I hardly saw any other chasers on both of those storms until I got on the paved roads. On the Nickerson storm we went down the paved road leading into Nickerson and it was seriously bumper to bumper traffic. We turned North onto a dirt road that was 1 mile West of Nickerson to jog around the NW side of town and there wasn't a single other car out there. The tornado crossed the road right in front of us at the intersection 1 mile NW of Nickerson, so I was very suprised that nobody else was on that road. You had better have 4 wheel drive if you are going to stick to the back roads though. I also have an Xterra and I have almost buried it more than once this year. Most of the roads haven't been too bad though. If you can hit that narrow area where you are directly in front of the mesocyclone, but just barely South of where the heavy precip has already gone through, then you get an awesome view from right under the mesocyclone, no crowds, and decent roads (provided the storm and road networks cooperate).

 

[Dan Robinson]

Storm chasing is not going to go away. Both sides of this issue are going to have to learn to deal with it and make the best of it, rather than inciting conflict. Newspapers (and all media for that matter) make their money by stirring up divisive issues, so we can expect little help from them. As such, both the law enforcement/EMS side and the chaser side should not let a biased news article be the baseline for our perceptions.

For chasers who obey the rules of the road, there is no problem and no reason to feel guilty for being there. For chasers who disobey the rules of the road, enforce the laws *for them* just as it is done for anyone else on the road, and leave the rest of us (and our reputations) alone!

All of the spotting and ground truth services chasers provide aside - when I hear about hotels being booked across an entire region on a big day, that tells me that chasers are starting to have a big economic impact on these rural areas, probably the likes of which they don't see any other time, ever. The locals have things to gain from us being there and should find better ways to deal with a traffic issue rather than slamming us in their local papers.

 

[Darin Brunin]

It looks like the story is spreading faster than a wildfire in Southern Florida....

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/may/25/amateur_storm_chasers_get_way/

 

[beaudodson]

I see this in each article...

“We had about 200 storm chasers,” said Trego County Sheriff Rich Schneider. “We had to get rough on them to get them to move.”


So were they beating chasers? They had to get "rough" on them??? lol