Amateur storm chasers cause headaches for emergency spotters
- Thread starter Steve Miller
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- spotter storm chasing
Paul Knightley
EF5
I realise that most if not all of us on here are responsible chasers who pull over, etc etc. I guess to make sure that these kind of articles remain as just excited hyperbole, we should doubly make sure that we don't do anything which would be considered to be this kind of behaviour. I know I'm preaching to the converted!
As a side note, and somewhat facetiously, as a 'foreigner' I'd like to also write an article and call out all the tourists who come to London and get in the way of us responsible commuters who have jobs to be getting on with, clogging up the Underground, etc...!
As a side note, and somewhat facetiously, as a 'foreigner' I'd like to also write an article and call out all the tourists who come to London and get in the way of us responsible commuters who have jobs to be getting on with, clogging up the Underground, etc...!
Dan Robinson
EF5
Blog post with the new information:
http://stormhighway.com/blog2016/april1316a.php
FYI, this is purely the ARES group. The local EMs are not involved, as the article seems to suggest.
http://stormhighway.com/blog2016/april1316a.php
FYI, this is purely the ARES group. The local EMs are not involved, as the article seems to suggest.
chrisbray
EF4
So our hobby and enthusiasts get slammed in a nationally distributed hit piece because some guy, who happens to be best buds with a journalist, didn't like the fact that an out of town chase was reporting on his frequency? Seems fair.
Justin Reed
EF0
At the very beginning of that net, the net controller announced that it was a closed net and that they would only take check-ins from their approved spotters. He repeated that once again about 30 minutes into the event. Then it was approximately another hour before Daniel checked in. Daniel had been working with another net in Norman and when he started getting out of their coverage area they handed him off to Wichita Falls. That is why and how he ended up on "their" frequency.
As a net controller for an area of Kansas where we have damn few ham spotters, I am always glad when I hear the "VK2 station" check in on our net.
Here are the first eight audio segments from the net. Warning: Extreme boredom and non-sensical ham-isms. Uhhh QSL? Roger - roger, over?
These archives have had silence removed by Broadcastify, not me. These have not been edited in any way by me except truncating the file names.
Start of net -> http://ks0lnk.net/audio/2003.mp3
http://ks0lnk.net/audio/2034.mp3
http://ks0lnk.net/audio/2108.mp3
http://ks0lnk.net/audio/2138.mp3
Daniel check-in at 13:44 mark -> http://ks0lnk.net/audio/2205.mp3
http://ks0lnk.net/audio/2235.mp3
http://ks0lnk.net/audio/2304.mp3
http://ks0lnk.net/audio/2329.mp3
I didn't grab any archives after midnight.
Also, as of this morning the feed from that repeater has been taken offline. Could be an outage, or they could be trying to eliminate future exposure.
One reason I love having our system on Broadcastify is the archives. It transcends politics and shuts down squabbles over things that didn't really happen. I've had to play this card several times, and damn, they hate it when we shine the light right back on them, don't they?
Justin Reed
NV8Q
Warren Faidley
Supporter
The argument has come up before concerning the "negative impact" a "few" idiotic chasers project and how it eventually effects everyone as a group. This story is a good example for those who still think everything is rainbows and unicorns. I don't believe the events that spawned the article are based solely on last week's event. There is an undercurrent of disrespect for chasers that only surfaces when a trigger like this occurs and it's only going to get worse.
Keith Hosman
EF1
This article even made it's way to the Emergency Management magazine website http://www.emergencymgmt.com/disast...s-cause-headaches-for-emergency-spotters.html. I'll copy my reply on that site here.
My response below------
Many chasers contribute greatly to the warning process, many contribute to the science of understanding severe weather. So I do not agree with lumping all chasers under the umbrella of dangerous amateurs. many chasers have better understanding of storm structure than a lot of spotters. I've been a spotter and part time chaser for as long as I have had my drivers license 1984, you do the math.
In my years I have seen "certified" spotters and net control operators, say and do things in formal nets that make me cringe I heard a spotter report a wall cloud with rotation, and the net control responds, "is this reportable criteria?" Really?????!!!!!! Same night, same net, another one comes on the net and asks this genius question "I know we are under a tornado warning, but why ARE the sirens activated?" Umm...... I have no response to this that I can say in a public forum.
I have seen the value of chasers chasing in my jurisdiction, especially when they are streaming live video, a few years ago we had a severe storm transit the southern area of my county. A chaser who I have known for some time, was traveling through and was streaming live video, I was able to see real time what was going on. Many chasers utilize the Spotter Network system, this allows them to submit reports real time in the field, and it also shows their location on the radar map and if you are an emergency manager or a NWS staff member, you have access to their contact information and can call them direct to get further clarification. This is VALUABLE and sometimes critical information you can access.
Yes there are some uninformed "Johnny Come Lately" chasers, this happened after the movie Twister came out, and it happened again after the Discovery Channel's Storm Chasers series came out. But if you really take the time to learn about the chaser community, the ones that are well known, respected by the media, the NWS, and their peers, you'll see that these ones also look down on the so called idiots, and try to talk to them, educate them.
As an emergency manager, I'll take any report I can get, in any way I can get it. There is no such thing as too many tools in the toolbox. I am a firm believer in having primary, secondary, tertiary etc. levels of information, and if I can get it real time, all the better.
Some of these chasers this article is putting down are meteorological students, doing field work as part of their degree coursework, or as part of a study being run by their school. Some just have a passion for weather.
So rather than putting them down, find a way to work with them, and incorporate them into your system
I'll also say this in response to the article, as a trained spotter for 30 years, as a licensed amateur radio operator, and Skywarn/ARES net control operator for 2 counties, If they have a license, and have a report they are completely welcome to check into ANY net their license permits them to. Not allowing someone to participate in a net simply because you do not know them is not being a good steward or ambassador for the amateur radio community. It is situations like this that drives people away from amateur radio.
My response below------
Many chasers contribute greatly to the warning process, many contribute to the science of understanding severe weather. So I do not agree with lumping all chasers under the umbrella of dangerous amateurs. many chasers have better understanding of storm structure than a lot of spotters. I've been a spotter and part time chaser for as long as I have had my drivers license 1984, you do the math.
In my years I have seen "certified" spotters and net control operators, say and do things in formal nets that make me cringe I heard a spotter report a wall cloud with rotation, and the net control responds, "is this reportable criteria?" Really?????!!!!!! Same night, same net, another one comes on the net and asks this genius question "I know we are under a tornado warning, but why ARE the sirens activated?" Umm...... I have no response to this that I can say in a public forum.
I have seen the value of chasers chasing in my jurisdiction, especially when they are streaming live video, a few years ago we had a severe storm transit the southern area of my county. A chaser who I have known for some time, was traveling through and was streaming live video, I was able to see real time what was going on. Many chasers utilize the Spotter Network system, this allows them to submit reports real time in the field, and it also shows their location on the radar map and if you are an emergency manager or a NWS staff member, you have access to their contact information and can call them direct to get further clarification. This is VALUABLE and sometimes critical information you can access.
Yes there are some uninformed "Johnny Come Lately" chasers, this happened after the movie Twister came out, and it happened again after the Discovery Channel's Storm Chasers series came out. But if you really take the time to learn about the chaser community, the ones that are well known, respected by the media, the NWS, and their peers, you'll see that these ones also look down on the so called idiots, and try to talk to them, educate them.
As an emergency manager, I'll take any report I can get, in any way I can get it. There is no such thing as too many tools in the toolbox. I am a firm believer in having primary, secondary, tertiary etc. levels of information, and if I can get it real time, all the better.
Some of these chasers this article is putting down are meteorological students, doing field work as part of their degree coursework, or as part of a study being run by their school. Some just have a passion for weather.
So rather than putting them down, find a way to work with them, and incorporate them into your system
I'll also say this in response to the article, as a trained spotter for 30 years, as a licensed amateur radio operator, and Skywarn/ARES net control operator for 2 counties, If they have a license, and have a report they are completely welcome to check into ANY net their license permits them to. Not allowing someone to participate in a net simply because you do not know them is not being a good steward or ambassador for the amateur radio community. It is situations like this that drives people away from amateur radio.
Jim Duyck
EF0
Long-time listener...first-time caller.
As both a Wichita Co. resident and a weather enthusiast, I must say I've got all kinds of thoughts and feelings about this.
Immediately, it was a sense of embarrassment for making "news" headlines is such a way. I was born in Wichita Falls - home of "Terrible Tuesday", of course, so severe weather has always been a topic of discussion growing up. As an adult, I have a wife and three daughters (soon to be four...
). I'm responsible for the care and feeding of the technology for BCP/DR (Business Continuity Plan and Disaster Recovery) at work. If I am outside of my county checking out storms, I am always looking to add to my experience, so that if and when something's happening closer to home, I am better prepared. So I guess I have a lot of reasons to care about what's going on in the atmosphere, both in-county and beyond...
I'd honestly like to have some statistical data on storm chasers that:
A. Have their HAM radio license
B. Understand the "normal" check-in process
C. Do so in a polite, articulate manner
D. Care enough to offer to report what they see
E. Have enough knowledge to quickly exhibit they're adding value to the conversation and not getting in the way
1. How many chasers are out there in 2016 that fall into that venn diagram area of overlap?
2. How many of the "problem children" chasers don't?
I'd personally guess that there wouldn't be a ton of radio traffic added by such qualified individuals. Why can't it be quasi-open/closed, at the discretion of the net controller? Storm chasers are reporting to the NWS. The Wichita Co. ARES is reporting to the NWS via NWSChat...the same as local news media with their field reporters and/or mets that are...storm...chasing? The line gets really blurry, really fast.
Severe weather that begins outside of Wichita Co. can and does obviously have in impact on its residents...you know...since storms typically...move. If our ARES group is reading info on incoming storms via NWSChat that includes reports from chasers who reported them to other local spotter groups or reported them directly to the NWS, then why the heck not also hear it directly from the chaser who is likely to be already on the storm when it's entering the county??? e.g. "This is the storm's history from the ground truth perspective. This is what it looks like it's doing right now." Etc.
I have NO use for anyone on either "side" of this discussion that rolls with a selfish, know-it-all prideful attitude. Period. Whether it's a reckless storm chaser putting others in danger in the way they drive (or with billions of #lookatme lights and enough stickers to fit in with NASCAR) or its a local storm spotter who wears their virtual #lookatme power trip merit badge on their puffed up chest, they're both being counterproductive.
Since the TRN article was posited around the notion that storm spotters help the public and storm chasers do not, I'm setting aside the chasing for pure enjoyment or meteorological studies to hone in on the public safety aspect.
I think in this instance, people are being so short-sighted in their efforts to serve the common good that they're overlooking the common best. When you sign up to join a local Skywarn group, you're almost assuredly partnering with local Emergency Management personnel because they recognize that they need help. So to take that context, that responsibility you've been handed, and not apply it beyond oneself - to essentially say "They need ME, but they don't need YOU and I don't need YOU because I know best" is a second-to-none illustration of hypocrisy.
WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM, DANG IT!!!
At this rate, I don't see myself looking to join our local ARES, but I'll still call the NWS OUN or FWD offices and post on social media.
As both a Wichita Co. resident and a weather enthusiast, I must say I've got all kinds of thoughts and feelings about this.
Immediately, it was a sense of embarrassment for making "news" headlines is such a way. I was born in Wichita Falls - home of "Terrible Tuesday", of course, so severe weather has always been a topic of discussion growing up. As an adult, I have a wife and three daughters (soon to be four...
). I'm responsible for the care and feeding of the technology for BCP/DR (Business Continuity Plan and Disaster Recovery) at work. If I am outside of my county checking out storms, I am always looking to add to my experience, so that if and when something's happening closer to home, I am better prepared. So I guess I have a lot of reasons to care about what's going on in the atmosphere, both in-county and beyond...I'd honestly like to have some statistical data on storm chasers that:
A. Have their HAM radio license
B. Understand the "normal" check-in process
C. Do so in a polite, articulate manner
D. Care enough to offer to report what they see
E. Have enough knowledge to quickly exhibit they're adding value to the conversation and not getting in the way
1. How many chasers are out there in 2016 that fall into that venn diagram area of overlap?
2. How many of the "problem children" chasers don't?
I'd personally guess that there wouldn't be a ton of radio traffic added by such qualified individuals. Why can't it be quasi-open/closed, at the discretion of the net controller? Storm chasers are reporting to the NWS. The Wichita Co. ARES is reporting to the NWS via NWSChat...the same as local news media with their field reporters and/or mets that are...storm...chasing? The line gets really blurry, really fast.
Severe weather that begins outside of Wichita Co. can and does obviously have in impact on its residents...you know...since storms typically...move. If our ARES group is reading info on incoming storms via NWSChat that includes reports from chasers who reported them to other local spotter groups or reported them directly to the NWS, then why the heck not also hear it directly from the chaser who is likely to be already on the storm when it's entering the county??? e.g. "This is the storm's history from the ground truth perspective. This is what it looks like it's doing right now." Etc.
I have NO use for anyone on either "side" of this discussion that rolls with a selfish, know-it-all prideful attitude. Period. Whether it's a reckless storm chaser putting others in danger in the way they drive (or with billions of #lookatme lights and enough stickers to fit in with NASCAR) or its a local storm spotter who wears their virtual #lookatme power trip merit badge on their puffed up chest, they're both being counterproductive.
Since the TRN article was posited around the notion that storm spotters help the public and storm chasers do not, I'm setting aside the chasing for pure enjoyment or meteorological studies to hone in on the public safety aspect.
I think in this instance, people are being so short-sighted in their efforts to serve the common good that they're overlooking the common best. When you sign up to join a local Skywarn group, you're almost assuredly partnering with local Emergency Management personnel because they recognize that they need help. So to take that context, that responsibility you've been handed, and not apply it beyond oneself - to essentially say "They need ME, but they don't need YOU and I don't need YOU because I know best" is a second-to-none illustration of hypocrisy.
WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM, DANG IT!!!
At this rate, I don't see myself looking to join our local ARES, but I'll still call the NWS OUN or FWD offices and post on social media.
Last edited:
Warren Faidley
Supporter
Good points everyone.
Simple solution.
1: If you want to be part of a closed spotter network, great, but get permission in advance. ICT, AMA, DFW, LBB, OKC, DEN, etc.
2: Use your cell phone if you want to call something in. They will likely forward you to an LEO source who will tell you something stupid like, "We will need to send an officer out to confirm." This is why I no longer call in severe weather reports except to direct NWS hotlines where they know who I am.
3: Just chase and avoid the spotter network. It's highly unlikely any major severe weather is going to be missed in areas were there is a spotter / media network unless it's an odd event, e.g., late night, freak storm, early / late season.
4: Some emergency / life threatening local events do need to be reported: bridges washed out, fires, people trapped by debris, motor vehicle accidents, etc.
Simple solution.
1: If you want to be part of a closed spotter network, great, but get permission in advance. ICT, AMA, DFW, LBB, OKC, DEN, etc.
2: Use your cell phone if you want to call something in. They will likely forward you to an LEO source who will tell you something stupid like, "We will need to send an officer out to confirm." This is why I no longer call in severe weather reports except to direct NWS hotlines where they know who I am.
3: Just chase and avoid the spotter network. It's highly unlikely any major severe weather is going to be missed in areas were there is a spotter / media network unless it's an odd event, e.g., late night, freak storm, early / late season.
4: Some emergency / life threatening local events do need to be reported: bridges washed out, fires, people trapped by debris, motor vehicle accidents, etc.
rdale
EF5
Simplest solution: SpotterNetwork
Randall Bragg
EF0
Well, I just removed all magnets and stickers from my truck, threw away my SKYWARN hat, and removed my light bar. Think I'll just curl up in the fetal position and have a good cry....and in no way will I purchase that bad ass HAM radio I was looking at.
Dan Robinson
EF5
A follow-up to the story has been posted:
http://www.timesrecordnews.com/weat...ea-6202-13c4-e053-0100007f1f91-375600941.html
http://www.timesrecordnews.com/weat...ea-6202-13c4-e053-0100007f1f91-375600941.html
Justin Reed
EF0
Oh goodie, I finally get to find out how robust my website provider is. Heh.
Shawn Gossman
Supporter
I got to say, as a spotter and a member of the emergency management community, I've never once seen a problem with storm chasers being in our particular area. In fact, usually after a storm has taken place, it is the locals that cause more problems than anyone else. They want to drive around and stop to take pictures while blocking the roadways without even considering who might need to get through them. In fact, chasers in general who are in the area always provide us with good information to assist us in our spotting or emergency management procedures. Our ham radio community even welcomes them. I think this issue stems from a few set folks who despise chasers because of their own vanity or ego to be the "go to guys" for severe weather observations and reports. Those types of folks are toxic to the chaser community. They are toxic to the spotter community and they give other operators in their field a bad name.
Emergency management of all people should get this. In emergency management, we often work with law enforcement and praise them for what they do. If one bad cop does something that gets national news, we'd be the first to say that not all cops are bad and people shouldn't treat all cops as bad people. The same issue is at hand here. You have a few chasers who block the road or do stupid dangerous things and you want to punish them all for doing it. It is sort of hypocritical to me.
I think the best response is the response going on now. Chasers are teaming up with one and other and being joined by spotters and members of emergency management who are not, well let me be blunt, idiots about the subject and fighting back with their response. Speak up and tell them what you think, correct them when they are wrong and ask them questions that actually forces them to use their brains for once.
Emergency management of all people should get this. In emergency management, we often work with law enforcement and praise them for what they do. If one bad cop does something that gets national news, we'd be the first to say that not all cops are bad and people shouldn't treat all cops as bad people. The same issue is at hand here. You have a few chasers who block the road or do stupid dangerous things and you want to punish them all for doing it. It is sort of hypocritical to me.
I think the best response is the response going on now. Chasers are teaming up with one and other and being joined by spotters and members of emergency management who are not, well let me be blunt, idiots about the subject and fighting back with their response. Speak up and tell them what you think, correct them when they are wrong and ask them questions that actually forces them to use their brains for once.
Michael Gavan
EF2
A while back I had a really cool car and I loved it to pieces. It had all kinds of cool stickers and ridiculous tint and funny looking wheels. But it was slow. I swapped out the 160 hp powerplant for a new motor that produced 240 stock HP, a year later, with lots of newfound knowledge, parts, and hard work I was dynoing in excess of 320 hp. I had taken that car from 16's in the 1/4 mile to just cracking the 11.9's. By then the car was debadged and appeared otherwise stock. I went from 'that guy (eyeroll)' to 'what in the world did I just get my a$$ handed to by?'
Anyway, there's a lesson there somewhere...its not the stickers and the lights, it's what's on the inside that counts.
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