2014-6-16 MISC: NE/IA/IL/WI/MN

[Will Campbell]

Stanton storm was a wedge, "twins" became a wedge as the moved NE, not wedges hitting Pilger, large tornadoes, but not wedges. The scar in the field north of town was approx. 1/2 mile wide.

 

[Dan Robinson]

While I agree that tandem mesos/simultaneous tornado events are common (I've seen several myself), I can't think of a more dramatic example of dual intense, photogenic, long-lasting tornadoes from independent mesos in such close proximity. From a chaser's standpoint, I think this was probably at least a 1 in 15 year event, maybe more. I can think of many dual tornado events, but I cannot think of another event that comes close to the visual quality of this one.

 

[Mark Ellinwood]

So now someone is claiming to have seen three simultaneous tornadoes, using this picture as evidence:

Source: https://twitter.com/tornadotrackers/status/478966475072348160

Now, obviously we had two ground circulations multiple times during this storm's journey, and there was evidence of three simultaneous circulations on radar, but with the obscured bases it's hard to tell if they are all in fact on the ground.

I question it mostly because this is the only picture I've seen of it. Surely there were others that caught this unique event if it indeed happened? Can anyone else attest to and/or provide evidence that there were three simultaneous tornadoes?

 

[Bob Schafer]

Can anyone else attest to and/or provide evidence that there were three simultaneous tornadoes?

I can attest that there were NOT three tornadoes. I have this on video, during which time I had a clear line of sight at the bases of all three, and the far left feature was neither on the ground nor rotating. Now, there's a very very small possibility that I have this wrong, because my priorities have been elsewhere in the last 24 hours, but I have watched it several times, including on a 27" TV, and concluded dismissingly that there were not 3 tornadoes.

 

[Jake Orosi]

I made a graphic that I hope people find helpful:

Correct of course. I will admit my bad terminology, although not without an attempt to scapegoat tornado videographers who breathlessly declare any tornadoes they see (or at least any that they are in close proximity to) as either "wedges" or "huge wedges". They're having a negative influence on me.

I stand by my observations about driving directly into tornadoes, though.

 

[JamesCaruso]

I had some questions about how the two tornados from two independent mesos could occur in such close proximity - particularly how the RFD from one meso wouldn't undercut the other - but I see that Jeff posted some links so I will read those first...

But I do have a question about the evolution of this day in general, as I was unable to do any virtual/armchair chasing that day. The 16:30 SPC Outlook that morning discussed elevated storms already ongoing in southeast SD and eastern NEB, and that paragraph mentioned only the potential for embedded supercells and development of a forward propagating MCS. The next paragraph talked about more isolated storms - and potential for a significant tornado - in western SD to north-central KS. Yet the storm of the day appeared to be discrete in the first (northeast NEB) region. So would appreciate some background on how things evolved that day; was this a byproduct of earlier storms that became surface based?

Separately, why no reports thread started yet?
Clearly the radar image posted indicates plenty of chasers on the Pilger storm!


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[KenMcWatters]

I'm also wondering how the basehunters team felt comfortable getting so close. I feel like if there were 2 raging tornadoes going on I'd be afraid of a 3rd dropping down or rapid widening or general other craziness occurring.

The Basehunters video is pretty amazing, especially when one of the tornadoes crosses the road right in front of them with the other tornado photogenically in the background! One thing about that sequence is troubling. There is another vehicle that is tagging alongside them, and it's hard to tell if it is part of their convoy or not. Anyway as they approach the tornado the other vehicle gets even closer, almost touching the debris cloud before the tornado leaves the road. While fascinating to watch, I hope this wasn't some macho game to see how close each vehicle dared to get.

 

[rdale]

While fascinating to watch, I hope this wasn't some macho game to see how close each vehicle dared to get.

What else could it have been? An errant driver unaware of the tornado? A science crew using a specially designed vehicle carrying instruments safely info the storm?

 

[Rob H]

What else could it have been? An errant driver unaware of the tornado? A science crew using a specially designed vehicle carrying instruments safely info the storm?

Someone on their cellphone playing Candy Crush and not paying attention? I doubt chasers would try to push the limits to get extreme footage - that sort of mindset doesn't exist in the hobby, and everyone learned a lesson from El Reno last year, right?

I can attest that there were NOT three tornadoes.

I'm actually questioning whether there were three for a moment from what we saw looking WSW through the rain. Obviously through the rain makes things harder, but we saw the "rear" tornado (Stanton?) and then all of a sudden there were two stovepipes much closer to us. How fluid was that hand off? From my perspective, it happened in the time it took for us to tell some guy to seek shelter, turn around a truck, drive 1 mile, and then park - so maybe 3 minutes? I'm sure the survey will answer this question. The only alternative is that they doctored that image, which doesn't seem likely. Why take an amazing photo and doctor it to try and add more?

So would appreciate some background on how things evolved that day; was this a byproduct of earlier storms that became surface based?

The MCS near Sioux Falls was stronger than anticipated and kept all the ingredients further south, and threw down at least 5 outflow boundaries that I saw. Several OFBs intersecting, strong instability ridging on the north end of the instability axis, and some evidence of EML "underrunning" that suggested focusing of convection in that area all helped out. One little updraft formed and persisted.

 

[Mark Ellinwood]

The only alternative is that they doctored that image, which doesn't seem likely. Why take an amazing photo and doctor it to try and add more?

It's not a question of doctoring the image. Trees and hills obscure the view of the ground circulations, so there is no conclusive evidence of three simultaneous tornadoes with the pictures provided from that group.

 

[Mark Blue]

Something about that picture seems strange every time I look at it. The field to the left of the road is in focus, yet to the right it's blurry. Maybe that's a normal occurrence and it's no big deal.

A chaser named Scott Peake said on TWC yesterday he thought they were locals because they were right beside him on the road and he didn't see any chaser gear in their car such as you would normally see.

 

[Brian McKibben]

I would agree that an event like this is fairly rare, but it is far from unheard of, unprecedented, or "once in a lifetime". Maybe personally witnessing it with one's own eyes, but meteorologically, this has occurred before in recent past and will occur again, probably within 5-10 years (a slight adjustment from my 3-6 year estimate on another thread).

Yes Jeff you are right. I know of two quick examples off the top of my head with two tornadoes on the ground at the same time. That said, the 6/16/2014 Nebraska tornadoes was quite remarkable.

Number 1 was May 10, 2010.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=events-20100510-stormphotos

Tornadoes J1 (from south Norman to Lake Thunderbird to Little Axe to Pink) and J3 (from southeast Norman to Pink):

In fact there were several tornadoes within a relatively close distance.
Four tornadoes at once in central Oklahoma:

Number 2 was May 15, 2003 in the Texas panhandle:

http://youtu.be/-SKeVYG2JJs?t=3m30s

There are several other instances with two tornadoes on the ground on the same time but that tends to be more when one is occluding and the new tornado is forming.

 

[Marcus Diaz]

I think there's a slight misunderstanding here. Multiple tornadoes on the ground from the same storm is not rare. But to have 2 large and violent tornadoes on the ground at the same time is very rare. Looks like they'll both be rated EF-4 per Omaha NWS. Any other cases similar to this would be very interesting. Not to mention that this was an isolated supercell on radar. There wasn't anything around for miles. It seems more common to have multiple tornadoes near each other when there's multiple supercells bunched together where their RFDs interact with each other in some scientific way. So I don't think we should just blow this off as something that happens a couple times per decade.

 

[Rob H]

I think there's a slight misunderstanding here. Multiple tornadoes on the ground from the same storm is not rare. But to have 2 large and violent tornadoes on the ground at the same time is very rare. Looks like they'll both be rated EF-4 per Omaha NWS. Any other cases similar to this would be very interesting. Not to mention that this was an isolated supercell on radar. There wasn't anything around for miles. It seems more common to have multiple tornadoes near each other when there's multiple supercells bunched together where their RFDs interact with each other in some scientific way. So I don't think we should just blow this off as something that happens a couple times per decade.

This pretty much nails it. People saw 3 EF-4s in the span of a few minutes from a single storm. Even that is rare, ignoring the more rare two on the ground at the same time.

It's not a question of doctoring the image. Trees and hills obscure the view of the ground circulations, so there is no conclusive evidence of three simultaneous tornadoes with the pictures provided from that group.

That's a pretty small hill. It's not conclusive, but it's certainly very likely with a strong, fully condensed funnel at least 2/3 of the way to the ground. I've never personally seen such a strong feature where there was no ground circulation, but your point is a valid one

 

[Ryan Pfeifer]

Also, have 3 velocity couplets ever been observed before in one area of a single supercell?