2014-6-16 MISC: NE/IA/IL/WI/MN

[Mark Ellinwood]

NWS Omaha concludes from their survey that there was NOT three tornadoes occurring at the same time: https://twitter.com/NWSOmaha/status/479397005798555648

Also, FOUR EF4s! Crazy.

Source: https://twitter.com/NWSOmaha/status/479392612994916352

Also noted that they were all within 90 minutes: https://twitter.com/NWSOmaha/status/479397783502585857

 

[Rob H]

Without turning this into a Ft. Leonard Wood debacle, they could have missed the 3rd one's path when it was scoured by one of the other two...

But seriously though, 4 EF-4s is nuts. The "at least EF-4" is interesting, are they thinking there might be EF-5 damage?

 

[Jeff Duda]

The "at least EF-4" is interesting, are they thinking there might be EF-5 damage?

The "at least" designation is given when a damage indicator that results in the highest rating experiences the maximum degree of damage. It is impossible, using the EF scale, to assign a wind speed to said damage since it's possible stronger winds could've caused the given degree of damage. It doesn't necessarily mean it was an EF5, just that insufficient indication is given based on the damage.

 

[Bob Schafer]

This debate won't die. Here are a couple vidcaps of the feature being debated. The first is from 4:18PM CDT, and the second 4:19. Once again, in all honesty, I cannot say with absolutely, positively 100% certainty that this thing wasn't ever a tornado, but I'm at about 99%, especially now that the NWS also says so. The other thing is this: I don't think it ever looked more like a tornado than at the time these two images were recorded.

 

[Mark Ellinwood]

Dan Melby got some video that shows what is POSSIBLY (not sure if tornadic or not) a third circulation (starting at 19 seconds in):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU7vastcuM0

Finally, a shot that doesn't have the bottom obscured!

 

[Rob H]

This debate won't die. Here are a couple vidcaps of the feature being debated. The first is from 4:18PM CDT, and the second 4:19. Once again, in all honesty, I cannot say with absolutely, positively 100% certainty that this thing wasn't ever a tornado, but I'm at about 99%, especially now that the NWS also says so. The other thing is this: I don't think it ever looked more like a tornado than at the time these two images were recorded.

FWIW, your pictures tip the scale for me. That's a low wall cloud, but that's all it appears to be. I don't think we'll ever get the answer as to whether there was EF-0 criteria being met under that thing, and at this point there's probably enough evidence that there wasn't. It would have been interesting to have three down at once, but it wouldn't really add anything to the already impressive series of events.

 

[Bob Schafer]

Oh, yeah, there WAS a third tornado! No question!, but NOT from underneath the WC-looking feature to the W or NW of the tornado that struck Pilger (to the right in this vid). It is visible in that video from :22 to :26 for sure, way off to the E of the other two tornadoes!

Dan Melby got some video that shows what is POSSIBLY (not sure if tornadic or not) a third circulation (starting at 19 seconds in):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU7vastcuM0

Finally, a shot that doesn't have the bottom obscured!

 

[JamesCaruso]

I think there's a slight misunderstanding here. Multiple tornadoes on the ground from the same storm is not rare. But to have 2 large and violent tornadoes on the ground at the same time is very rare. Looks like they'll both be rated EF-4 per Omaha NWS. Any other cases similar to this would be very interesting. Not to mention that this was an isolated supercell on radar. There wasn't anything around for miles. It seems more common to have multiple tornadoes near each other when there's multiple supercells bunched together where their RFDs interact with each other in some scientific way. So I don't think we should just blow this off as something that happens a couple times per decade.

Based on the contrast drawn between Monday's isolated supercell and other situations with "multiple supercells bunched together where their RFDs interact with each other", is this meant to imply that Monday's twin mesos shared only one RFD?

Separately, can anyone post base reflectivity images from the event? I have only seen base velocity images posted here...

How can there still be no REPORTS thread, I know some of you were on this!

 

[Bob Schafer]

Yes, they shared the RFD.

There IS a reports thread. I started it, but accidentally named it 2014-6-14, and have asked that a mod fix that (about 20 minutes after creating the thread) but it is still mis-named.

I took a brief, blurry video of the radar imagery, which I can vidcap and post, but not today. I am driving home today and want to get going. It's probably not what you want to see anyway.

Based on the contrast drawn between Monday's isolated supercell and other situations with "multiple supercells bunched together where their RFDs interact with each other", is this meant to imply that Monday's twin mesos shared only one RFD?

Separately, can anyone post base reflectivity images from the event? I have only seen base velocity images posted here...

How can there still be no REPORTS thread, I know some of you were on this!

 

[Bram]

Separately, can anyone post base reflectivity images from the event? I have only seen base velocity images posted here...

I had made an animation of the radar images from this event. They contain both the reflectivity and velocity of the lowest scans:

Watch video >

 

[Rob H]

Screencap/pic from Dan Melby:

So do I eat crow on my eating crow? What's the protocol here?

 

[T Farncombe]

Hey all! We had an unforgettable chase, though very tough to hear about the tragedy at Pilger.

We glimpsed the Stanton tornado for a few minutes as we approached the storm from the east, then caught the formation of the Pilger and East Pilger tornadoes. I'll agree with the consensus that there were not three tornadoes on the ground at once, certainly not three at the mature stages of their lifecycle. We watched tornado #2 (Pilger) rope out, rotate around (in front, to the east) of tornado #3 (East Pilger). IMO, this happened after tornado #1 (Stanton) dissipated, prior to tornado #4 (Wakefield) forming. That said, tornado #3 was still a fat, mature stovepipe at this point and I do question whether tornadoes #3 and #4 were in fact one long-track event (I realize they have been confirmed as two separate tors). Can anybody confirm witnessing tornado #3 dissipate and tornado #4 form?

Regardless, we lost the storm at this point and picked it up again to the east of Emerson, where we watched/filmed the final fifteen minutes of this (the "Wakefield") tornado.

Here's my video of the two tornadoes in the Pilger area:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJr5agubydQ

-Travis

 

[Rob H]

Can anybody confirm witnessing tornado #3 dissipate and tornado #4 form?
-Travis

Travis, my video in the 6/16 reports thread (accidentally titled "6/14") shows this rather clearly:

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/sho...MN-IL-WI-SD-ND&p=338359&viewfull=1#post338359

 

[Stephen Shield]

"this is going to be a BIG ONE" and that they better sound the sirens NOW. Don't know if they did or not

One of my chase partners has family in the stanton area he said when he called three minutes before the warning was issued to tell them to take cover he could hear the sirens in the background. So it sounds like they did sound the sirens.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Yes, they shared the RFD.


Thanks. I am interested in understanding HOW they could share an RFD; since the RFD is part of the overall mesocyclonic circulation and required for both tornadogenesis and tornado sustenance, how could each tornado NOT have its own RFD?