"Tensions Grow Between Tornado Scientists and Storm Chasers"

[sebenste]

Chronicle of Higher Education: Tension grows between storm chasers

http://chronicle.com/article/Tensio...=TWx2JwQybnBFNHYzL3MTfyVSYXJ6dUxwOXdHZHsaY1pc

Yep, same ol' same ol, except the ivory tower folks who aren't meteorologissts get to read about it.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

Another story written about the V2 / chaser interaction. I find this one to be much more even-handedly written then the others that I've seen.

http://chronicle.com/article/Tensio...=TWx2JwQybnBFNHYzL3MTfyVSYXJ6dUxwOXdHZHsaY1pc

 

[rdale]

I so hope he was taken out of context:

"But Mr. Wurman said that amateur storm chasers rarely offer useful information because, by the time they call in their reports, officials are already aware of the storms, thanks to radar equipment"

 

[Jason Foster]

Combine threads needed.

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24543

 

[Jason Foster]

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?p=275914

dupe thread...just a heads up.

 

[Karen St John]

I so hope he was taken out of context:

"But Mr. Wurman said that amateur storm chasers rarely offer useful information because, by the time they call in their reports, officials are already aware of the storms, thanks to radar equipment"

Well, Dr. Wurman, are those officials getting their data mainly from you? Or from NEXRAD, &al, along with the supporting ground truth from spotters and chasers?

And wasn't it a group of wayward chasers who, in large part, turned V2 onto the Goshen, WY storm last year?

I wouldn't diminish anything Vortex2 is doing, I am fascinated by it, and would have sold my soul to be part of it. But...that was not a cool statement on Dr. Wurman's part.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

I so hope he was taken out of context:

"But Mr. Wurman said that amateur storm chasers rarely offer useful information because, by the time they call in their reports, officials are already aware of the storms, thanks to radar equipment"

Doubt it.

"The chasers basically made a rolling roadblock," he said in a phone interview Thursday, while preparing to head out for his last day of data collection.

Wow, still bitching about that day lol. On/during the final chase day no less. Which was another of the bad target days evidently(damn that SD).

Funny how none of these ever mention the whole, "Boy we sure screw up a lot of days" part of blame. Just, damn those chasers blocking our way, pathetic crap. I mean really, it's pretty stupid once you think about it and this year now.

What a tool to rehash all that again in another article, while preparing for the last chase day. Boo efing hoo, we couldn't get our data this one bad day in OK. So pissed it caused us to repeatedly screw the pooch in chase targeting afterward...given we even chased.

 

[cedwards]

But Mr. Wurman said that amateur storm chasers rarely offer useful information because, by the time they call in their reports, officials are already aware of the storms, thanks to radar equipment

If this was actually the case, why is it that NWS offices and several air force bases have called me to ask what the storm is doing while I am chasing?

 

[Mike Moore]

But Mr. Wurman said that amateur storm chasers rarely offer useful information because, by the time they call in their reports, officials are already aware of the storms, thanks to radar equipment

Reading the article I notice that that specific "quote" is not in quotes. I'm thinking that's not verbatim.

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

Thanks for this link, Ryan. I sure hope that was the 'old' response of Dr Wurman at the time this was still a hot-button issue. I'd hate to think that he is holding any grudges still. I know that I don't.

"...Mr. Wurman said that most of the chasers refused to move aside to let the research vehicles pass. While people have no legal obligation to yield to radar trucks, he said that he felt the amateurs should have given way as a courtesy."

"Just like you open the door for a guy with crutches—it's not required by law, it's just polite," he said. "Nobody let us by, and I was really disappointed by that. It basically crippled our science mission that day."

Crippled?!? Isn't he is the one with the real-time radar?
I thought we were the crippled ones when chasing...Hmmm...

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Thanks for this link Ryan. I sure hope that was the 'old' response of Dr Wurman at the time this was still a hot-button issue. I'd hate to think that he is holding any grudges still. I know that I don't.

Read the part I quoted. It's from Thursday.

 

[Tyler Allison]

Wow...just wow.

"But Mr. Wurman said that amateur storm chasers rarely offer useful information because, by the time they call in their reports, officials are already aware of the storms, thanks to radar equipment"

Assuming he actually said this...it proves he is out of touch with operational/reality of the situation and has been sitting in a research job for far too long.

By this argument we should abolish SKYWARN and tell all the radar operators to step up their game. If you can't see the tornado on your radar screen you obviously suck at your job.

Wow...I'm just speechless.

-Tyler

 

[Patrick Marsh]

And wasn't it a group of wayward chasers who, in large part, turned V2 onto the Goshen, WY storm last year?

As the VORTEX 2 Operations Center manager for both years of the project, and being involved in the day-to-day planning or the project, I can tell you unequivocally that this was not the case. While there were alternative targets discussed during the morning meeting, the focus on this day was southeast Wyoming. As for the particular storm, it was the primary focus the entire afternoon.

 

[Rob H]

Even if it was just V2 on the road and not a single other car, wouldn't their 40 car caravan cause convergence in itself? I'm trying to imagine 40 cars going through Pierre, SD or Great Bend, KS.

As others have pointed out, I hope Wurman doesn't seriously believe that radar will replace spotters anytime soon. It would be nice, but I don't see it happening in the next 10 years at least.

Right now, the warnings give you enough time (on average) to drop everything and duck and cover. Do we really want to give people enough time to think - and try to pick up their kids from daycare, go out and get fast food real quick, stand outside and watch, etc.? There was another thread about this, and I completely agree with the argument for improving accuracy instead of drastically extending warning time.

I'm wondering when this "chaser vs. scientist" motif will rear its ugly head again. When do we get to see real applications based on results from V2, and how soon until they announce V3 with 200 armor-plated vehicles and a giant hamster ball?

 

[Tyler Allison]

As others have pointed out, I hope Wurman doesn't seriously believe that radar will replace spotters anytime soon. It would be nice, but I don't see it happening in the next 10 years at least.

He's not attributed as saying radar will replace chasers/spotters in the future. He's attributed as saying radar _HAS ALREADY_ replaced chasers/spotters.

I'm wondering when this "chaser vs. scientist" motif will rear its ugly head again.

As someone else pointed out on a different forum/list I'm on....and was a topic during the CoD Severe Weather Symposium...this is the same disconnect that the meteorological community has seen for many years. It's the dirty little secret of the meteorological community that the research guys don't understand the operational guys and vice versa. When the research guys comment on an operational aspect (use of chasers/spotters) they are bound to get it wrong and make themselves look stupid. I suspect it's the same thing when an operations guy comments about the future of radar.

The entire community could be enhanced if the two "groups" could start working together instead of poke each other with a spoon.

-Tyler