ST's Future Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Messages
1,412
Location
Southeast CO
I don't think there are many on here who don't know that ST is gasping for air. The participation seems to have dwindled to a trickle, though there are over 80 people here on the site as I type.

So, what do we do? Social media has apparently applied a chokehold. Do we let ST go? RIP?

I am sad about this, but one cannot turn the clock back, yet this forum has been very, very important to me for many years.

This is an invitation for all of you to express your opinions.
 
It does seem that, in its current state, that ST is at the end of the rope.

It seems to me that while there are a number users on here, only a dozen have been dedicated members for a number of years and truly care about this forum and would donate to keep it going. I just don't know if donations from a dozen people would be enough to keep ST going.

Your mention of social media is very spot on, and it makes a good point. There are a few forums that I am a member of that were in their prime prior to social media, since sites like Facebook most of those forums are lucky to even see 10 posts a day. I would like to see ST stay alive, but I wonder why StormTrack doesn't take advantage of social media? Why is there not a StormTrack facebook page? I'm sure most, if not all of us have a facebook page. It would offer another method of discussing topics of interest and what not. Best of all, it's FREE! Can't beat that! Or just create a StormTrack group that we can join, I think that would probably be better than having a normal StormTrack FB page.
 
What are ST's current traffic numbers? Would it be possible to downsize to a smaller server or a shared hosting plan to save money? What is the exact amount needed to keep it going? I'm willing to contribute either way.

As much as it has been responsible for the egress from forums, social media is a veritable cesspit when it comes to quality weather and storm chasing discussion. The rare quality thread that does manage to rise from the sewage on Facebook does so in fragmented, closed circles. Any reason one can offer for leaving a forum such as Stormtrack rings hollow when you consider the same annoyances and low quality exist at several orders of magnitude greater on social media, yet are somehow tolerated with increasing impunity. I maintain a glimmer of hope (regardless of how against the odds that may seem) that an 'awakening' or 'coming to senses' could be in the future, one that could spell a resurgence in the relevance of forums - something that would be worth keeping things going here.

In the meantime, while traffic is low, would it not make sense to simply reduce costs rather than let everything go altogether?
 
What are ST's current traffic numbers? Would it be possible to downsize to a smaller server or a shared hosting plan to save money?

I don't know what server or hosting service Tim uses for this site, but for 8 years or so I used GoDaddy and their service was very affordable and great. I don't know what the current traffic numbers are either, but if they're small I think Tim could easily get buy by switching to GoDaddy.
 
Interestingly, a *paid* forum I'm a member of, trainorders.com, is thriving. The membership fee is around 30 bucks a year. That place seems to always be hopping. There are a wide spectrum of people posting there - enthusiasts, people working in the industry, etc. I pay the fee because there is always good insider info and the archives are a trove of historical info/articles/photos.

The Stormtrack forum model isn't dead, it just needs some infusion of quality posters. I certainly wouldn't mind at all paying a yearly membership fee here like I do at Trainorders, especially if the funding would help add features, improve response, and re-attract some quality posters back into the fray.

There are all kinds of things that could be added as useful/interesting features. Like converting Target Area chase reports into a searchable database by event date and chaser/photographer. Or getting the daily target contest and chase cases going. Right now, storm chasing has no other central presence on the web that could even begin to compete.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Interestingly, a *paid* forum I'm a member of, trainorders.com, is thriving. The membership fee is around 30 bucks a year. That place seems to always be hopping. There are a wide spectrum of people posting there - enthusiasts, people working in the industry, etc. I pay the fee because there is always good insider info and the archives are a trove of historical info/articles/photos.

While you and I would be up for the yearly membership fee, truth be told I don't think Stormtrack could pull that off. As I said in an earlier post, despite the number of members on here, there is probably less than a dozen members on here who would pay that.
 
I decided to move this thread to a sub forum everyone has access to. I can see both sides of the FB issue as described above and I tend to lean towards Dan's way of thinking. However, I woudn't see any reason why we couldn't create a page or group to test the waters. If it works out great, if not, nothing ventured, nothing gained. The hosting fees are on the order of $250 annually and the upgrade fees for vBulletin 5 Connect are $209 and with the Mobile Bundle it is $359. I looked at traffic numbers a month or two ago and the numbers were kind of dismal, but it seems to me there is always an active thread or two anytime I check in. I ponied up and made a donation to get us through the next quarter yesterday, so that gives us a temporary reprieve for the near term. Hopefully the discussions we have will result in some positive changes for the long haul (if there is one).

Keep up the good work guys and let the ideas and thoughts flow. Now is the time.
 
Stormtrack on Facebook

I think it's time to embrace social media, but let's keep this forum alive as well. There's an invaluable wealth of knowledge that has accumulated here over the years. It needs to be preserved and archived like the Stormtrack print magazines.

Over the past few days I've been discussing with some of the staff and other chasers about implementing an actively edited Stormtrack Facebook page. I think it's long overdue, and I think we can address several of the concerns that people have including the issues that Dan brings up.

There's always been a centralized hub of storm chaser communication. It started with the print magazine and has progressed in various digital forms such as mailing lists like WX-Chase and forums like this one. The format has changed several times, but there's always been a hot spot of discussion for what is currently happening in chasing. That is until now. That hub is gone, and the storm chasing community has been broken up into splintered fragments strewn across social media. If you aren't following the right people, aren't in the right friends circles or cliques, you lose out on what’s happening.

Let's try to bring that hub back and let's embrace social media, which is where all of the chaser traffic has migrated. A Facebook page could be a great way to provide real time news and photo sharing from all corners of the chaser community, and I think it's possible to get closer to Stormtrack's roots as a print magazine in the process. Dan expressed concerns about the quality of content on Facebook. A Facebook page would allow a group of editors, not unlike those of a magazine, to pick which content gets published to the page. Stormtrack editors could corral high quality content from chasers and meteorologists that is posted to the news feed and then share it to the Stormtrack page. Readers would be free to comment on the shares or start their own discussions as well, but editor selected shares allow the content of the page to remain high. The key is to maintain a good sized group of active chasers from diverse backgrounds and social circles as editors so that we get a steady stream of posts from across social media.

One huge advantage the forum has over Facebook is the organization of posts into sub forums and threads that are sorted and searchable. We'll sorely miss that organization, but I think there are ways to provide some order to the chaos of social media. The timeline feature allows you to view posts from specific points in time. Editors could also use hash tags when they share posts to group posts by topic. The Stormtrack Facebook page will become a sprawling list of various topics with multiple concurrent threads going for the same event, but by selecting a hash tag you could get all the posts from that topic. On the forum we have tightly regulated FCST threads in the Target Area, while on Facebook posts of greatly varying quality about upcoming setups are strewn randomly across the news feed. Editors could hand pick insightful and informative posts about setups and tag them with something like #forecast-2015-03-28. Readers can then click those tags to get all forecasts for that event. Anytime an editor sees an account or photo from an event, they could share it with #reports-yyyy-mm-dd and then you've got all photos and accounts in one spot.

The page would also provide several advantages over the forums. Moderating would be at a minimum as editors are selecting what gets shared to the page. Readers are then free to hide or block content or people they don't wish to see. Participation from chasers isn't even explicitly required as the editors can simply share people's public posts, which eliminates the need to maintain an active members list, only a group of active editors that can be refreshed.

I'm interested in any comments, concerns, suggestions, or criticisms for the Facebook page. I'd also like to hear from folks who are both active chasers and forum participants who'd like to be editors for the page. It's important that we maintain this forum, but it's time to extend the conversation to social media.
 
I think it's time to embrace social media, but let's keep this forum alive as well. There's an invaluable wealth of knowledge that has accumulated here over the years. It needs to be preserved and archived like the Stormtrack print magazines.

Over the past few days I've been discussing with some of the staff and other chasers about implementing an actively edited Stormtrack Facebook page. I think it's long overdue, and I think we can address several of the concerns that people have including the issues that Dan brings up.

There's always been a centralized hub of storm chaser communication. It started with the print magazine and has progressed in various digital forms such as mailing lists like WX-Chase and forums like this one. The format has changed several times, but there's always been a hot spot of discussion for what is currently happening in chasing. That is until now. That hub is gone, and the storm chasing community has been broken up into splintered fragments strewn across social media. If you aren't following the right people, aren't in the right friends circles or cliques, you lose out on what’s happening.

Let's try to bring that hub back and let's embrace social media, which is where all of the chaser traffic has migrated. A Facebook page could be a great way to provide real time news and photo sharing from all corners of the chaser community, and I think it's possible to get closer to Stormtrack's roots as a print magazine in the process. Dan expressed concerns about the quality of content on Facebook. A Facebook page would allow a group of editors, not unlike those of a magazine, to pick which content gets published to the page. Stormtrack editors could corral high quality content from chasers and meteorologists that is posted to the news feed and then share it to the Stormtrack page. Readers would be free to comment on the shares or start their own discussions as well, but editor selected shares allow the content of the page to remain high. The key is to maintain a good sized group of active chasers from diverse backgrounds and social circles as editors so that we get a steady stream of posts from across social media.

One huge advantage the forum has over Facebook is the organization of posts into sub forums and threads that are sorted and searchable. We'll sorely miss that organization, but I think there are ways to provide some order to the chaos of social media. The timeline feature allows you to view posts from specific points in time. Editors could also use hash tags when they share posts to group posts by topic. The Stormtrack Facebook page will become a sprawling list of various topics with multiple concurrent threads going for the same event, but by selecting a hash tag you could get all the posts from that topic. On the forum we have tightly regulated FCST threads in the Target Area, while on Facebook posts of greatly varying quality about upcoming setups are strewn randomly across the news feed. Editors could hand pick insightful and informative posts about setups and tag them with something like #forecast-2015-03-28. Readers can then click those tags to get all forecasts for that event. Anytime an editor sees an account or photo from an event, they could share it with #reports-yyyy-mm-dd and then you've got all photos and accounts in one spot.

The page would also provide several advantages over the forums. Moderating would be at a minimum as editors are selecting what gets shared to the page. Readers are then free to hide or block content or people they don't wish to see. Participation from chasers isn't even explicitly required as the editors can simply share people's public posts, which eliminates the need to maintain an active members list, only a group of active editors that can be refreshed.

I'm interested in any comments, concerns, suggestions, or criticisms for the Facebook page. I'd also like to hear from folks who are both active chasers and forum participants who'd like to be editors for the page. It's important that we maintain this forum, but it's time to extend the conversation to social media.

What he said.

I always thought it was odd that StormTrack hasn't embraced social media and that there wasn't a StormTrack page on Facebook. Fact is, things change and you have to keep up with what is current. Just look at StormTrack's history, at the beginning it was a magazine, then years later here comes the internet and that becomes popular so ST goes online and does away with the magazine. Now days, it's all about social media. May as well embrace it.
 
WHat would ST on FB look like? You can't really have forum like this...

This forum is getting to be a thing of the past. ST on FB could very much work, I think it would be better suited as being a FB Group rather than a regular FB page. I'm a member of numerous photography groups on FB with discussions going on all the time, it's very effective and very popular.
 
I agree in its current form Storm Track is dead. Rumor is CFDG migrated to FB. I'm apart of a few professional astronomer groups on FB. They largely share news stories, blog posts, or talk about funding issues (they appear on my feed every day or so). Yes there are 'chatty' members in those groups too that seem to post the most. The posts of course are not organized by topic like here...
 
The forum is where it is because of several reasons, all of which contributed to a steady decline in my participation:

1. Social media
2. Lack of participation from Tim Vasquez over the last few years.
3. Too much focus on moderating every single discussion rather than letting opinions flow freely. You can argue over which way to view that, but regardless, it made a bunch of people leave, especially back in the 2010-2011 time frame.
4. A general confusion about what this forum was supposed to be. There was an influx of newer members, especially when Storm Chasers was still on TV. There were some who wanted it strictly for seasoned chasers ala CFDG, and others who wanted to embrace newer members. Again, that topic can be argued, but the forum has been rudderless for years.
5. Lack of actual discussion of the FORECAST. When I first joined in 2009, there were good discussions with many posts on where people were targeting, factors unique to each setup, updates about what people were doing...all this disappeared over the course of several years. The biggest culprit was social media. Another was a cultural shift in chasing toward keeping such things to yourself. There are many chasers nowadays who would sooner launch an attack with a machete than reveal their plans for a given chase day. To each their own, but if there is no DISCUSSION taking place, then a forum is inherently pointless.

I say kill it. Tim Vasquez's lack of presence on here, coupled with the message on the front page about lacking funds to keep it operational, makes me suspect people probably have greater priorities right now than a weather forum.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some time ago, I know that at least one other entity had expressed interest in acquiring ST, which could have brought in resources to keep the server going as well as add new features and bring publicity. Any chance of revisiting that?

The changes Jacob alluded to are, I think, cultural/technological shifts rather than forum vs social media. For instance - sad to say, but with all of the data and short-term models we have at our fingertips now, a new chaser doesn't need to learn how to forecast to see tornadoes. Any information a more experienced chaser might offer in public would only serve to erase the 'edge' that said experienced person might have (seeing 'sleeper' potential somewhere else, getting to the target early enough for optimal contrast angles, etc). We don't really see many experienced chasers offering public forecasting thoughts on Facebook/Twitter, either. I don't think the traditional 'Target Area' will ever see its pre-HRRR/4KM WRF heyday, but I also don't think any social media presence is likely to revive that either.

Jacob's point about what this forum is supposed to offer is valid. I really don't know the answer to that, but I think any organized effort on Facebook is likely to face the same issue of what to allow/reject and degree of moderation. How would social media solve that problem any better than it being solved on a forum?

If we could get 20 people to pay 20 bucks to keep things running for the year (again, which I'll gladly be one of those 20), we'd already be on the way to something better. I think a paid forum would cause some 'balks' for sure, but after it is proven what such solid crowdsourced funding can do, I think it would be enough to change some minds. Again, it's 20 bucks a year. The only concern I'd have is that the money go into a fund for ST only and not line the pockets of whoever owns the site, as I'm sure would be a concern for everyone. Not to say the admin wouldn't be entitled to some compensation for time spent on management tasks.
 
Using Facebook to promote and drive traffic back to the forum would be a good first step to try before abandoning the idea of the forum altogether. I don't think it has to be one way or the other. (And by the way, I learned of this thread on Dan's Facebook page. That's how it can work.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top