Storm Chasing with Others

[Jeremy Den Hartog]

First off, these questions probably have been discussed in the past but I was unable to find anything using the search here (so I apologize in advance if it has been discussed and I missed it). I'm just wondering what everyones thoughts are about chasing with others (friends, family, etc) and liability issues. Since 2008 I have been chasing with multiple other people (friends, my wife, brother-in-law, etc) all in one single vehicle (we rotate who goes usually). Is there anything I need to be concerned with if the unthinkable happens and something were to happen while chasing (afterall, obviously storm chasing is very dangerous). One reason I ask is I'm the 'leader' of the group (in other words, I do the forecasting, navigating, deciding where to go and when to get out of the way, etc). Do I think one of the people I chase with would ever try to come after me if something were to happen? Absolutely not. However, would an insurance company try to come after me? As silly as it sounds, should I have people sign a waiver?

Another thing I've considered is actually charging people to tag along in different vehicles (people who are local in my area - I've had a few approach me and ask if I'd be willing to do something like that since our vehicle is usually full). These people I may or may not know directly. In this case, I realize I would need a waiver of some kind and would need to speak to a lawyer. I'm just wondering if anyone else here does this? Would one need a license of any kind to technically offer something like this? Thanks for any help in advance.

 

[Jason Boggs]

Don't ever think that someone riding with you won't sue you if something goes wrong. You need a waiver even if you're not charging the occupants to tag along. You just reminded me of something. I'm a freelance chaser for a tv station, but I normally take either the morning met or the weekend met chasing with me. I'm going to make them sign a release before they get into the vehicle with me this year. I didn't do this last year, but if the unthinkable happens, I at least want to know I won't be sued by them.

Again, don't think your brother in law or good friends won't sue you if they get hurt. Just watch some of the court shows (Greg Mathis, Joe Brown, and the People's court). I'm a big fan of the court shows and I see family suing family and friends suing friends all the time.

 

[Jeremy Den Hartog]

Don't ever think that someone riding with you won't sue you if something goes wrong. You need a waiver even if you're not charging the occupants to tag along. You just reminded me of something. I'm a freelance chaser for a tv station, but I normally take either the morning met or the weekend met chasing with me. I'm going to make them sign a release before they get into the vehicle with me this year. I didn't do this last year, but if the unthinkable happens, I at least want to know I won't be sued by them.

Again, don't think your brother in law or good friends won't sue you if they get hurt. Just watch some of the court shows (Greg Mathis, Joe Brown, and the People's court). I'm a big fan of the court shows and I see family suing family and friends suing friends all the time.

Thanks for the reply, looks like getting a waiver together would be best then...

 

[Jason Foster]

It's in need of an update, but on my site (http://www.weatherwarrior.net/chaser/partner.html) I did a write-up about partners. Chase partners are an interesting thing. Depending on the type of chasing, hours spent together, philosophy and more. Interestingly, back in 2002 through 2004 I thought I had found some of the best partners (Chris Collura, Jeff Gammons, Amos Magliocco) but that ended and we have gone in different directions. This year I'll be with Mark Ellinwood for the first time, but luckily we've had a number of local chases to try out the chasing deal, and we do really well. However we've only done day/regional chases, and come this spring....the expedition style chasing will bring a whole other dimension. The one thing I am very happy about (and hopefully the same in reverse) is I feel very comfortable with Mark's driving, which I find one of the first issues partners have when chasing.

 

[J Tyler]

The next time I throw a backyard BBQ, I need to have everyone sign waivers. Those propane tanks can blow at any time, plus there is an open flame. Possible food poisoning......Somebody might choke! Here in Texas, someone might step in some fireants.

Of course, I'm being silly.....and I do understand the valid concerns of being sued while chasing. The point I'm trying to make is, if your really concerned then you should consider that there are hundreds of opportunities to be sued every month. If your really concerned, talk to your insurance agent about getting a million dollar personal liability policy. They are not expensive at all, and might give you better peace of mind to go along with all the liability waivers. After all, some scum bag lawyer and "a jury of your piers" will find some way around any waiver you can come up with......

 

[David Drummond]

Sure, anyone can sue you at any time for any thing. Whether it ever gets to court, or holds up in court, is another matter.

No one, I don't care if your the King of Siam, gets in to my chase vehicle without signing a waiver. You can thank 3 situations I had with chasers for this.
Just the waiver alone I have found is excellent in weeding out the types that are likely to be sue happy. Those types usually don't want to sign it. No sign, no ride.

No, it might not keep someone from suing should a worst case happen, but it would be darn difficult for them to prove in court "they had no idea this would happen", after they signed my waiver that specifically says they knew something like this could happen.

Something else to include in your waiver is a clause that includes "you dont' get paid for chasing with me", especially if you sell any video (unless you have some sort of written arrangement with those chasing with you), and your waiver also includes a basic model release, in case you happen to get them in your video, and you want to make a DVD, sell the video, etc. Because without it, they can and very well may expect to get paid for them being in your video.

Yes, I have had BOTH of those situations happen in the past. With more and more nutjobs flowing into the chasing community, you just have to CYA any more, sadly.

 

[David Drummond]

The next time I throw a backyard BBQ, I need to have everyone sign waivers. Those propane tanks can blow at any time, plus there is an open flame. Possible food poisoning......Somebody might choke! Here in Texas, someone might step in some fireants.

Which of course you have homeowners insurance (or at least renters) to cover for those situations. Things can and do happen, and when money, especially significant amounts of money become involved, greed can often override friendships.

 

[Lanny Dean]

It might do you well to look at an LLC in both forms. This not only will help you regarding taxes but also on a legal standpoint. Not that I care to give you a hell of a lot of information, I am sure you can understand why, but....first things first....just a normal waiver WILL NOT CUT IT. Verbage is everything in a waiver, GET YOUR LEGAL TO DRAW UP YOUR WAIVER...DO NOT DO IT YOURSELF. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTNAD IT ENOUGH TO DO IT YOURSELF. Most people including those in the legal field do not even understand the proper verbage needed for a true LEGAL waiver. I cannot stress this enough.
A good general waiver that includes verbage such as "up to and including dismemberment and death" will generally cover you in a court of law however, if you have not included language such as "including family, friends and children" in your waiver regarding a lawsuit then you could easily get into some big trouble. This is also where an LLC could come into play and would be of help.

I believe I gave you the same information last year when you questioned starting a tour business....do your homework, get a lawyer (the right kind of lagal) and then make sure EVERYONE signs your waiver. Get insurance, get bonded. Put some cash away in savings because it is costly! then plan on spending at least $2,000 just for a good waiver....do your homework and you should be fine.

 

[Jeremy Den Hartog]

Thanks guys, very useful info

 

[Stuart Wilson]

With the proviso that I'm on the other side of the pond to you guys, this is what I'd say about waivers.

All the advice above is spot on, BUT keep in mind no waiver in the world absolves you from taking all necessary and reasonable steps to ensure the safety of your guests and anybody else around you. Over here we 'love' risk assesments and I'd encourage you to undertake with a couple of other people a risk assesment to help you understand if you have or plan to do all the reasonabl things necessary to mitigate risk.

It might be an idea to decide what sort of chase you're going to offer: 1) Photo tour for structure pictures, lightning and long distance shots of a tornado. 2) More of a thrill chase with core punching and driving through hail or 3) Let's get up close and personal

That way yu can choose guests who will know what they might have in store.

 

[Melissa Jablonski]

It might do you well to look at an LLC in both forms. This not only will help you regarding taxes but also on a legal standpoint. Not that I care to give you a hell of a lot of information, I am sure you can understand why, but....first things first....just a normal waiver WILL NOT CUT IT. Verbage is everything in a waiver, GET YOUR LEGAL TO DRAW UP YOUR WAIVER...DO NOT DO IT YOURSELF. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTNAD IT ENOUGH TO DO IT YOURSELF. Most people including those in the legal field do not even understand the proper verbage needed for a true LEGAL waiver. I cannot stress this enough.
A good general waiver that includes verbage such as "up to and including dismemberment and death" will generally cover you in a court of law however, if you have not included language such as "including family, friends and children" in your waiver regarding a lawsuit then you could easily get into some big trouble. This is also where an LLC could come into play and would be of help.

I believe I gave you the same information last year when you questioned starting a tour business....do your homework, get a lawyer (the right kind of lagal) and then make sure EVERYONE signs your waiver. Get insurance, get bonded. Put some cash away in savings because it is costly! then plan on spending at least $2,000 just for a good waiver....do your homework and you should be fine.

Good point. We have an LLC for our company. C Y O A.

 

[Lanny Dean]

Good point. We have an LLC for our company. C Y O A.

Bahahahahahahahaha....now thats funny! Cover Your Own Ass! I like that. I didn't see that one coming, Melissa!

 

[Jason Foster]

But be careful with the way you might think protection works with an LLC/Inc. etc. It's not a two way street (as it was explained to me). While you can protect your personal assets from the business side, you cannot protect your business from the personal side. In this possible instance, if you are chasing and you "personally" cause an accident, you and your business may still be in jeopardy. It's the same for your finances. If you loose your house, car, etc. the business is possibly an asset they can put a lien against. You also can't hide personal assets within the company. There are loopholes and exceptions, which is why a lawyer is always a good idea once you can afford one.

Just read as much as you can on the subject, get to know the rules, the reasons, the risks behind the decisions you make.