SN Reports had 15 min lead time 3/8/10

[Bill Tabor]

I have just finished verifying / validating 60+ NWS reporting numbers - part of the Street Atlas overlay and the GR3 Placefile. Turns out there were only a few bad or non-working numbers. The majority of these numbers are the 800 numbers for reporting directly to operations. They also automatically map the county and number to the appropriate NWS office so you know the correct one to call.

I'll look up the errant numbers and likely post a Street Atlas overlay and GR3 placefile soon....probably within an hour or so. When I do I'll provide an updated link for getting this information.

Additionally, after that update I have extra WFO offices that were not part of the original release. I'm going to look into adding those as well. That's a bit more complicated as I have to add them into my database and do a fair amount of manipulation - some manual.

 

[Bill Tabor]

Sent updated / corrected GR3 NWS county / phone number placefile to Tyler. It should be available for download from www.grlevelxstuff.com soon. Note: the one currently out there version 1.0 Dec 26th 2009 is the old one.

I am now also hosting it on my website for download here:
http://www.tornadoxtreme.com/nws800numbers.zip

 

[Bill Tabor]

Here is the link and instructions for the updated Street Atlas overlay for NWS Phone Numbers (per county). This was originally intended for version 2005 but should probably work with the latest. I haven't tried it. You may need to follow the instructions on this page about downloading / installing the extra code to allow advanced file management / draw layers in Street Atlas first:

http://www.tornadoxtreme.com/SANWSphone.htm

 

[GPhillips]

Sorry, April 25 2009. Search that date on Youtube and the vids should show up.

The videos we saw of tornadoes from that storm taken from Douglas county, were as it produced a tornado just to the northeast in Leavenworth county. If anything touched down in Douglas county, we'd like to know about it so it could verify our tornado warning. We received nothing in real time or after the fact, about a tornado touch down in the county from spotters, nor could we verify it in any of the videos we saw on the net, but there could be something out there we don't know about.

May 15. There's a thread in post storm with some pics of the funnels. I didn't see the VORTEX2 teams but was told they were in Ottawa over in Franklin county to the East. I did see one of the armored TIV's flying East toward Ottawa on K268 after the funnels went East of me.

That day was actually our best day in using spotternetwork. There were more chasers visible on GRLevel in our county warning area than any previous day. Calling 4 chasers from spotternetwork near the storm to the south and southeast...two couldn't identify anything they saw as a funnel, and two said they saw a lowering that might be a funnel, but rotation was barely discernable. The two live video feeds we viewed from chasers on the storm did not show anything particularly concerning. Combining the chaser and spotter reports we received and solicited, with the video feeds, and the fact the storm never had a decent low-level mesocyclone on radar, led to continuing the severe thunderstorm warning instead of the issuance of a tornado warning. While the storm had a nice appearance in the reflectivity field, it could never get its act together and rotate much in the lowest 10000 ft.

 

[john.sibley]

MOB's MIC told me that they don't rely on streaming video "because we don't know where it's coming from. We believe it's fake."
This is something I've heard from other offices as well. I think it's a mentality.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

I find that difficult to believe; who takes the time to fake a streaming video to trick the NWS?

You may as well not bother with spotters at all if you're going to assume that they're all bad actors from the get-go.

 

[Bart_Comstock]

Ok I think it's time I chime in on this thread. I normally have a outstanding time sending in reports via phone or SN to OUN and I would like to applaud them for how quickly they respond. Generally they are very rapid but on this day I almost thought the person on the other end of the phone was half asleep. I called well in advance of the first funnel to report a lowering with a lot of motion under the storm and that I had a very well sculpted clear slot making a nicely shaped horse shoe base. I gave my position via what was on the top of the spotternet client. The guy told me something very close to, "well ok, thanks for the report" and that was that. I then call back later with a report of funnel halfway to the ground 2 miles to my west and give my position based off of what it said on the top of my spotter net screen. The man on the phone sounded un-interested. I informed him I have it on my stream and he still seemed uninterested. I then posted a SN report and called Kory and asked if he would get on NWS Chat and give them a link to my stream. About 5-10min later I call the NWS back to give another report the funnel has stayed halfway to the ground and that there is a lot of motion in the storm. I also informed them that I have a hill blocking my view of the ground under the funnel so I cant see if there is a debris swirl under it but I wouldn't be surprised... I tell them tornado on the ground give that it is estimated to be 2 miles to my W and that I am 2 miles north of Clinton, OK's geopolitical center. In my video shortly after the tornado is on the ground you can hear me in the background grow very quiet while Denton Sachs and Randy Cooper are manning my camera. It's at this time that I have closed the door to my car and am very calmly calling in the NWS and letting them know the tornado has touched down and once again I give my position and the position of the tornado. Still no warning. Kory tries to send the link of my stream again and then after about 3-4 minutes I then put a SN report of a tornado on the ground. It is about a minute after that SN report that the tornado warning is issued. I did just about everything in my power to send in reports of this storm to the NWS until I got on the air with the weather channel which tied up my phone.

Im not sure but I quote from his post:
"If the chasers who own the camera that everybody was watching called it in or put in a SpotterNetwork report I'll gladly retract the ad hominem remark. I just don't want the warning mets taking the blame because they were not monitoring unofficial data sources/streams."

I did note to the WSO on each phone report that I had my stream on the storm and how to access it.

Before the storm made it to me it passed over (or near by) another spotter who I know reported that there was 1" sized hail with the storm but there was not a severe t-storm warning issued either. I didn't mention this spotter's name as I haven't asked him if it would be alright if I did. I believe he phoned in the report but I may be mistaken.

I have talked about this with several chasers over the past few hours and questioned whether or not to say anything...but why didn't someone just call the OUN NWS to report the tornado?

This was the first thing I did before I submitted any SN reports on this day.

All of this said I am in no way trying to chastise or call out the OUN office. They are a terrific WSO that has a long standing track record of professionalism and this was a very difficult day as the radar was scanning well above the rotation of the low topped storm. Furthermore I am not sure how many others were reporting the tornado along side me so they could have assumed that others would have been calling in a tornado besides just my self. I had largely written off this day as a bust several hours before the storm initiated and really what saved my day was the fact that I stopped to have lunch in Clinton, OK (Randy, Denton, and My target for the day) and then wait out to just see if something does happen since we all drove 6+ hours to get to our target. Regardless of the delay of the tornado warning it did come out before the tornado impacted Hammon and it did save lives. I do wish it had been more timely but when all is said and done no one was hurt or killed on this day due to a lack of a warning.

Thank you rick for also taking the time to reply to this thread. I am sorry this is such a late post on a old subject and I am in no way trying to dic back up a old topic or pick a fight. I simply over looked this thread and would have chimed in much sooner than I did. Also thanks for your thank you emails from last year concerning my reports. I look forward to working with OUN (or any other WFO) in the future via reporting and any other ways I can help.

 

[Brett Adair]

MOB's MIC told me that they don't rely on streaming video "because we don't know where it's coming from. We believe it's fake."
This is something I've heard from other offices as well. I think it's a mentality.

Just my opinion....but it has been voiced to me in the past that there are many concerns with that office in particular lagging on tornado warnings on obvious cells. So, I don't really understand what the mentality is down there.

In terms of relying on live feeds....I have been told that it all depends on who you are in terms of reporting via a live feed. It's pretty hard to deny if you have a GPS coordinate corresponding with your video. Considering that Southern Region purchased GR2AE for all of there offices across the south....I would think they might utilize it with the numerous place files that are out there for this kind of stuff. That is unless they don't like changes in technology....

 

[john.sibley]

There are a lot of concerns about MOB always dropping the ball. During the last TOR Warning in their county, the local ham club had a "practice net" while a tornado was on the ground. Skywarn has not been activated at NWS since I moved here in July 2009. During Ida, they let NHC do everything. Skywarn here is an ABSOLUTE JOKE!
Now there is a new ham radio club in Mobile (Gulf Coast Radio Club) that is trying to change that. Good luck to them. Baldwin County EMA is also taking a stand and has really stepped up their game. They're trying to stand out from Mobile EMA.
MOB is notorious for not listening to incoming reports. They hardly warn anything.

It's a waste that all the resources are out there and NWS won't use it because they didn't do it. Also when Skywarn net operator tells a ham the "We don't condone chasing" and can't understand why no one will make reports for the rest of the day.

 

[rdale]

Also when Skywarn net operator tells a ham the "We don't condone chasing"

Absolutely not... I don't think any Skywarn net should condone chasing. That's up to individual spotters.

 

[Tyler Allison]

Nobody should be condoning chasing. (or any other personal choice that involves risk above normal)

But then again...nobody should be looking for someone else to condone their actions. Take responsibility for your own actions and then it doesn't mater what anyone else thinks.

 

[Simon Brewer]

I read the first 3 pages of this thread and decided to skip the remaining 5 pages of debate and post some of my experiences with reporting severe weather.

1. I only report rapidly rotating wall clouds, funnel clouds, and tornadoes from the field, and all reports were relatively difficult to achieve due to poor phone signal and/or the person taking the report.

2. The 911 operator has hung-up on me at least three times during a report, and one conversation where I was reporting a tornado the operator said, "I have real emergencies to take care of..." and hung-up on me!

3. To the best of my knowledge the NWS has never issued a tornado warning due to a direct or indirect call from me reporting a rapidly rotating wall cloud, funnel cloud, or tornado; this makes me wonder why I even bother ever calling in reports.

4. My most successful field reports were via local TV stations, because they either put me on live or repeated my report on air; the closest NWS office typically responded in a quick manner.

I'm not 'bashing' 911 or NWS, but above is my experience with reports.

 

[Nathan Truninger]

2. The 911 operator has hung-up on me at least three times during a report, and one conversation where I was reporting a tornado the operator said, "I have real emergencies to take care of..." and hung-up on me!

Most times if a dispatcher is getting numerous calls over the same thing (such as a tornado, accident, etc.) they will simply hang up, particularly if there is a backlog of calls coming in.